That's the crunch question. Better not to have it. A mate's motorcycle got nicked and trashed but recovered. It was in the Police pound and the insurers were arguing it was vandalised not crashed and so they would not pay. Then it got stolen from the Police pound (!), best thing that could happen, insurers had to pay out full value. That last thing you want is your car with half an engine.
Hippo
Lord Hippo
Pinching it back creates a few problems. The garage usually collect the vehicle. Even if the haven't stole the engine or attempted a poor repair... they will still come up with admin costs associated with collection and planning to carry out the nasty tricks they plan. The purchaser of the work would still be liable for that cost. If they haven't already paid in advance, the scumbags could put in a small claim and win those costs.
Hippo
Lord Hippo
Anyone with problems got any news or updates? Please be careful what you write. I suspect the garage owners read freds like this. Wouldn't surprise me if they joined up anorl.
Looks like the court case is still pending. I assume because of the virus delays. The 'garage' is still at it. I'm told there's vehicles dumped outside with half the front end eaten away and vital organs missing. Same vehicles sit there for months. Some disappear. They then fill the space again.
Looks like we're famous. Link below. Chap gave them his focus to do an engine head gasket repair. Messed him around not giving the car back. Got it back in the end but there was a smashed window. It would seem he only got it back because he sent them a link to the police facebook article on the 'alleged' fraud. All messages sent via ebay messaging, which is where he purchased the repair I think.
https://www.airgunforum.co.uk/commu...engine-rebuild-scammers-wolverhampton.303590/
Looks like the court case is still pending. I assume because of the virus delays. The 'garage' is still at it. I'm told there's vehicles dumped outside with half the front end eaten away and vital organs missing. Same vehicles sit there for months. Some disappear. They then fill the space again.
Looks like we're famous. Link below. Chap gave them his focus to do an engine head gasket repair. Messed him around not giving the car back. Got it back in the end but there was a smashed window. It would seem he only got it back because he sent them a link to the police facebook article on the 'alleged' fraud. All messages sent via ebay messaging, which is where he purchased the repair I think.
https://www.airgunforum.co.uk/commu...engine-rebuild-scammers-wolverhampton.303590/
Its takes a lot of work to get these places closed. We are dealing with a local family that deal drugs, drive uninsured and fly tip. Its taken 6 moths to make progress and the lessons so far are:
Work together, get everyone to report. Report everything this to the local Authority and the Police and make sure their files and chock full of reports.
Get CCTV and keep posting it to the Police.
Get the Council to put up CCTV to monitor environmental damage - ie oil leaking into drains. The Police can use this for other evidence once its there.
Shame the police and Council into action. We now have a monthly conference call with the Police at which they report progress. We've had to put up with the most incredible sloping shoulders from Police and Council, I quote "selling drugs does not mean they are being anti-social" "they may have insured that car now.." We take this rot and e-mail back to the Chief Constable and Head of the LA.
We send the CCTV to the inland revenue and benefits fraud too. Its having an impact, there's a very high chance that anyone scamming like this is also falsely claiming benefits and underpaying tax so you can really disrupt them.
In our case we mobilised against the landlord and got eviction notices served as they were breaking the lease conditions. That could work here too.
The Wolverhampton operation has to be shut down, evicted, prosecuted and vehicles seized. That needs all the victims to work together.
Work together, get everyone to report. Report everything this to the local Authority and the Police and make sure their files and chock full of reports.
Get CCTV and keep posting it to the Police.
Get the Council to put up CCTV to monitor environmental damage - ie oil leaking into drains. The Police can use this for other evidence once its there.
Shame the police and Council into action. We now have a monthly conference call with the Police at which they report progress. We've had to put up with the most incredible sloping shoulders from Police and Council, I quote "selling drugs does not mean they are being anti-social" "they may have insured that car now.." We take this rot and e-mail back to the Chief Constable and Head of the LA.
We send the CCTV to the inland revenue and benefits fraud too. Its having an impact, there's a very high chance that anyone scamming like this is also falsely claiming benefits and underpaying tax so you can really disrupt them.
In our case we mobilised against the landlord and got eviction notices served as they were breaking the lease conditions. That could work here too.
The Wolverhampton operation has to be shut down, evicted, prosecuted and vehicles seized. That needs all the victims to work together.
I'm surprised too. I think its because they are advertising on e-bay and getting customers from far away. Years ago I had the misfortune to have a similar type of business move in to a workshop next door (ie joined to) a house I let out. They stripped engines in the street, parked un taxed vans everywhere so no one could park and tipped oil down the drains. When ever I was round there would shouting matches with angry customers. They would rebuild engines in the gutter, dirt everywhere, not one of them spoke English (or so they claimed) all from Pakistan. When the Council turned up they threatened them and they paid off someone in the Council as well. One day the whole lot caught fire. I had a big insurance claim but no one was hurt. Police said it was arson - racially motivated. This was b****ks as 90% of the residents were Pakistani, its was about the car parking and everyone being ripped off. That seemed to get the Council motivated and helped get them into court, after that the guy was banned from running an business. BUT, very suspiciously someone in the Council "accidently" sent the witnesses names and address to him.
My bet is these guys are paying someone off.
My bet is these guys are paying someone off.
Hippo
Lord Hippo
There's a lot working there and they have made violent threats in the past. When peeps have talked to the police they have advised not to go near them as they're considered dangerous. There's a lot of cars closely parked in their scrap yard car park. I'm surprised someone hasn't petrol bombed them. Strange thing is they've got lots of security cameras all around the site.
Looking at what we have learned with our "problem":
1 You need a group of many people who are affected. Customers, neighbours, other businesses, The more you look the more you will find.
2 You have to collect and collate all the evidence and find as many breaches as you can. You don't know which one will stick.
3 You need to identify a small number of officials that have to act - Trading Standards, Local Police, Local Authority. You need names not vague titles.
4 Your objective is to transfer the worry and loss of sleep from the victims to the officials who are not acting. Once they wake up each morning thinking about this business you are getting somewhere.
5 Once you have drawn the careers and health of the relevant officials into the problem you have push for the destruction / removal of the whole lot, and arrest of those involved, not small changes. Its got to go and stay gone.
In our case the initial official line was "its just a problem family" whereas out position was "its an organised and significant criminal enterprise". We gathered evidence of the scale of the criminality and kept on writing to the Police and Council about their failure to deal with organised crime. A major step forward was when the Police yet again sent a junior PCSO and she was assaulted. That helped prove our interpretation of events. I wrote to the Chief Constable and set him a challenge, "these people believe they are above the law and so far you are confirming that, prove me wrong".
1 You need a group of many people who are affected. Customers, neighbours, other businesses, The more you look the more you will find.
2 You have to collect and collate all the evidence and find as many breaches as you can. You don't know which one will stick.
3 You need to identify a small number of officials that have to act - Trading Standards, Local Police, Local Authority. You need names not vague titles.
4 Your objective is to transfer the worry and loss of sleep from the victims to the officials who are not acting. Once they wake up each morning thinking about this business you are getting somewhere.
5 Once you have drawn the careers and health of the relevant officials into the problem you have push for the destruction / removal of the whole lot, and arrest of those involved, not small changes. Its got to go and stay gone.
In our case the initial official line was "its just a problem family" whereas out position was "its an organised and significant criminal enterprise". We gathered evidence of the scale of the criminality and kept on writing to the Police and Council about their failure to deal with organised crime. A major step forward was when the Police yet again sent a junior PCSO and she was assaulted. That helped prove our interpretation of events. I wrote to the Chief Constable and set him a challenge, "these people believe they are above the law and so far you are confirming that, prove me wrong".
Hippo
Lord Hippo
Police and trading standards are on to them. Unfortunately it takes some for them to do their stuff. Creating a case, collecting and reviewing evidence and a review of their business practices. Current situation is they're going to court over it. Date set but put on hold because of the virus. Trading standards and police will still log new complaints about them. It's all happening but the virus delayed a court hearing and possible result/conviction.
brianp38dse
Well-Known Member
It can not look good for them when they do go to court if they have been continuing they dodgy dealing knowing of the case but then they dont really give a ratsarse anyway.
Our situation is similar; covid delaying action, but there's also an element of officialdom hiding behind covid to avoid sorting the mess out. That's why keeping the pressure on is so important. My bet is that this is a much bigger criminal operation than it seems at first sight. Trouble is you can never know until there are searches and arrests.
lightning
Well-Known Member
lt's been going on four years, in that time they've probably made a fortune, it doesn't look like they sell the cars on so they must just be making the money from customer payments and deposits for work that they never do.
Amazing that four years in nothing has changed, it's all over the internet on various forums with missing cars going back to 2017.
Amazing that four years in nothing has changed, it's all over the internet on various forums with missing cars going back to 2017.
What's so frustrating is that if this is dealt with as a trading standards matter they will probably get suspended sentences and a small fine. The only way to stop them is a custodial sentence, but that means getting a lot more evidence and a lot more complainants and it doesn't look like anyone is really coordinating that. Its a lot of work as we are finding out with our problem, but these criminal activities never stand still, they grow, so you have to act. I think there's a hope that it will all go away, but it doesn't because every week they are not shut down is week their confidence builds. This is why we are challenging our local police to prove that they are not above the law when everything proves otherwise.
lightning
Well-Known Member
So how many missing cars does it take to make a "case" for prosecution?
Guy on here lost a £20,000 Discovery. l guess it's complicated as the garage will say he hasn't paid, they are still working on it, they never had the vehicle, he took it back etc etc which will delay any proceedings for years.
Guy on here lost a £20,000 Discovery. l guess it's complicated as the garage will say he hasn't paid, they are still working on it, they never had the vehicle, he took it back etc etc which will delay any proceedings for years.
