Do we have any legal genius' on the forum?
From the beginning:
Bought my L322 4.4 Vogue on 13th March 2015 from a 2nd hand dealer (showroom) and did not take out any warranty on it.
After a couple of weeks I noticed a wheel 'shimmy' and investigated to find a faulty lower forward control arm ball joint. I took this on the chin and replaced it on Friday (15/5/15) and immediately noticed my steering wheel was off centre (at about '10 to')
I took the car on a drive today (16/5/15) and got all sorts of errors on the message display which are Air Susp. inactive and also HDC inactive,in addition,the traction control and ABS lights were lit.
A bit of a Google and I think it's something to do with the steering angle sensor in that the wheel sensors are telling the car it's going straight (all 4 wheels travelling the same speed) but the steering angle sensor tells the car it's turning left. Apparently this throws up these faults.
100 miles after this and blow me the battery light comes on. Limped the car home and phoned the RAC who diagnosed a faulty alternator.
Now, the reason for this post now the background stuff is out of the way.
As I bought the car out of a showroom, is it reasonable to expect that the car should have lasted at least 6 months without these faults under the sale of goods act and if so, is it reasonable that I should expect the dealer to repair my car based on the sale of goods act as the car is now no longer fit for purpose.
Sorry if it goes on a bit but thought I'd check if anyone knows about these things before I make a misinformed phone call to the dealer on Monday.
TIA.

I'm not an expert but my understanding is'
The faults must be present at the point of sale, faults arising after the sale are not covered by sale of goods they are covered by warranty, which you did not take, so IMO that rules out your claim on the alternator.
The array of warning lights were not present at the point of sale, these will be attributed to changing the ball joint and disturbing sensors or misaligned steering angle.

The only fault that sounds to be present at the point of sale was the faulty ball joint, i think you should have taken the car straight back to the trader to raise the issue of the ball joint and either had it repaired by him or asked for a refund.

By all means try it, but i think you've now got a battle on your hands.

Read the "crock of ****" thread - its all in there.

Any faults within 6 months are deemed to have been present at time of sale, HOWEVER you have, most likely, shot yourself in the foot somewhat by doing some work yourself. You should have taken it back and given them the opportunity to fix it.

Caveat Emptor.....(or however it is spelt)

Reset the steering angle sensor.....lock to lock and back to centre and see what happens.

There are no sensors to say the wheels are straight and yet the steering wheel is turned....only the steering angle sensor on the steering column. The car will care not if the steering is not set dead ahead....

I would hazard a guess and say you issue is a duff battery and alternator.

Change both and reset the steering angle sensor (this has to be done each time the battery is disconnected and reconnected) by running engine and turning lock to lock. This will reset the steering angle sensor.

If you still get the faults, check the ABS sensors and the EAS height sensors...and then get some diagnostics on it.

The Mad Hat Man said:

Any faults within 6 months are deemed to have been present at time of sale,

Click to expand...

Wow, that's amazing, it covers second hand cars? I'm surprised dealers are brave enough to sell 10-15 year old car, that could in 6 months have absolutely anything fail from a bulb to the engine and have to repair or refund.

Saint.V8 said:

Caveat Emptor.....(or however it is spelt)

Reset the steering angle sensor.....lock to lock and back to centre and see what happens.

Click to expand...

Saint,

After having the wheel alignment done at three different garages on mine, on two occasions within 10 miles or so the steering angle sensor has thrown a fault (incl air susp inactive, ABS and DSR lamps)

Lock to lock didn't have any input on resetting mine. I had to re-calibrate it. I.e set the wheel at 0.0' whilst the wheel was dead central. After that no issues

benthomas said:

Wow, that's amazing, it covers second hand cars? I'm surprised dealers are brave enough to sell 10-15 year old car, that could in 6 months have absolutely anything fail from a bulb to the engine and have to repair or refund.

Click to expand...

It does, but you have fecked it by trying and failing to replace the failing part.

I'm not familiar with the L322, so could be wrong here. If the control arm is connected to the steering box, you might be able to adjust it to centre the wheel. I doubt that a battery and or alternator would get replaced under warranty as the are 'consumables'. You should get an alternator that shouldn't break the bank.

robhew86 said:

Saint,

After having the wheel alignment done at three different garages on mine, on two occasions within 10 miles or so the steering angle sensor has thrown a fault (incl air susp inactive, ABS and DSR lamps)

Lock to lock didn't have any input on resetting mine. I had to re-calibrate it. I.e set the wheel at 0.0' whilst the wheel was dead central. After that no issues

Click to expand...

Yes, that is a full recalibration.....

But trust me, there are no sensors to tell the car where the wheels ACTUALLY are pointing....only the Steering Angle Sensor which tells the ABS ECU where the Steering Wheel is pointing, not the wheels....the car doesn't know if the wheels are actually turned.

There is a Yaw Sensor which monitors vehicle movement and a Tilt Sensor to monitor vehicle attitude, along with the wheel speed sensors and the steering angle sensor the car can then use its stability program to control traction and slip.

But as for the wheels pointing straight and the steering wheel turned....the car wouldn't know and assumes you have had it set correctly.

The only fault I can think it would give is if the SaS is reading 'Steering Wheel Not Straight' and yet the Yaw sensor reads the car is 'Going Straight' then the disparity could give rise to a Steering Angle Fault, but as for sensors actually on the car to monitor actual wheel position...there is no such thing.

Datatek said:

It does, but you have fecked it by trying and failing to replace the failing part.

Click to expand...

No its not me who's shafted myself, that was my reaction to being told any fault arising in the first 6 months is considered to be present at the point of sale, which i find ludicrous.

I've already informed the OP he's messed up fixing something himself without returning it to dealer.

benthomas said:

No its not me who's shafted myself, that was my reaction to being told any fault arising in the first 6 months is considered to be present at the point of sale, which i find ludicrous.

I've already informed the OP he's messed up fixing something himself without returning it to dealer.

Click to expand...

Correct, I intended to reply to the OP
Any fault appearing in the first 6 month being considered as present at the time of sale is not ludicrous, it's a protection against unscrupulous secondhand car dealers bodging faults to shift cars off the forecourt.

So if my head gasket, diffs, ball joints or becm fails within 6 months of ownership i can get it repaired FOC by the dealer, brilliant! you do learn something every day

benthomas said:

So if my head gasket, diffs, ball joints or becm fails within 6 months of ownership i can get it repaired FOC by the dealer, brilliant! you do learn something every day

Click to expand...

You can try, but it's a bit harder than getting blood out of a stone in practice, usually involving the small claims court in my experience.

Am I right in thinking that this rule was brought in by the EU a few years ago?? Also if you took the car back and quoted chapter and verse to them with the help of a letter from a legal beagle they maybe a bit more willing to face up to their responsibility?

Thanks for the replys, very helpful and informative.
As far as the control arm goes, I didn't think it was worth driving from Derby to Hinckley and having to lose my car for a day and also having to arrange transport to and from the point of repair (dealers local garage) for the sake of a 20 minute job and a £36 part.
The alternator is a different matter, they're not cheap and its a time consuming job although I am/was prepared to take the hit as I've found a recon part on EBay (Alternatorman) for £144 and I'm capable of doing the repair but I was wondering if it is a consumable part.
I had the RAC out to it last night who diagnosed the alternator as open circuit and he also asked how long I'd had it and where I got it (I've had him out previously to jump start my M5 lol) and it was him who mentioned the sale of goods act.
I'll be honest, if its gonna take a month of going backwards and forwards in discussions with the dealer to maybe get them to foot the bill, I'd rather just do it myself this week although I am now of the frame of mind where I might phone them and offer to repair it for just the price of the replacement part, never know, they might go for it as its a cheaper option for them and it gets me back on the road sooner.

As for the steering angle sensor, don't turning wheels turn at different speeds outside to inside i.e. the outside wheels would turn faster than the inside wheels while the car is turning and therefore the car would know its turning although probably wouldn't concern itself about what angle it would be turning at.
The car was obviously tracked up with the faulty suspension arm and now it has been replaced, its out of alignment. I parked the car straight and could physically see that the car is steering on the O/S wheel and the N/S wheel is pointing slightly left so I need to adjust the tracking on the O/S until the steering wheel points straight then it should be job done (I hate off centre steering wheels).

Anyways, great replies that have helped me a lot, I am going to phone the dealer to try and get them to cough up for the parts and offer the labour for free. I won't hold my breath waiting for the answer I want but I've got nothing to lose by speaking to them and after seeing the replies, I now know that in law, the faults were assumed to be present at the time of sale as its under 6 months.

Many thanks to all, I'll update after speaking to the dealer.

waddy1200 said:

Am I right in thinking that this rule was brought in by the EU a few years ago?? Also if you took the car back and quoted chapter and verse to them with the help of a letter from a legal beagle they maybe a bit more willing to face up to their responsibility?

Click to expand...

It's UK consumer law, not EU. Sure as hell it does not apply in France

wasn't sure what it was but thought id heard of it. Are the French not forth coming with rectifying problems Datatek ?

waddy1200 said:

wasn't sure what it was but thought id heard of it. Are the French not forth coming with rectifying problems Datatek ?

Click to expand...

Not at all in my experience, once you buy it's your problem
After sales service on electrical goods is terrible.

I'm in Derby too and suggest you go to Alan Smith on Manchester Street who will be able to CORRECTLY diagnose the issues and sort it out.

They are very reasonable and deliver a superb service.

I've heard various stories when it comes to dealers coughing up on vehicles that have gone bad after being sold, from 'that's no problem, we'll fix it entirely at our cost' to 'take me to court if you like, I just go bust or change my company name when I get enough complaints' and people that have taken dealers through the small claims court and eventually come to an agreement in court , after a year down the line of legal letters while the car sits and rots on your drive teasing you to fix it yourself and get on with your life.

You never know, you may get lucky ..