Grit Valve
2000 4.6 Vouge
I fitted poly bushes to a defender I onced owned .I thought next time I need to do them it would not be so difficult ..... They haven't needed changing 4 years on .
Has anyone freeze fitted them by a dunk in liquid nitrogen first? However the amount of interference to overcome sound's a lot, depends how the non metallic bushes react. We use nitrogen on metallic bushes all the time. Admittedly, not the sort of thing found in yer tool box :doh:
It's good for smashing banana skins too. Don't ask how I know
Dipping them in liquid nitrogen would make the rubber solid and they would be impossible to fit. A slight interference fit of a thou or so on a metal bush is one thing 1.25 mm is a little larger.
fluffykeith
New Member
Hi - just joined
My P38 has failed the MOT because the radius arm bushes can be moved sideways. The arm is not centrally positioned between the plates and the MOT guy said that the metal to rubber bonding that would keep it central has come apart causing the arm to shift. He use a 3ft pry bar to demonstrate that there is some sideways movement - however I say the arm flex more than it moves.
Is this really an MOT failure? and the poly bushes I have ordered (as they can apparently be fitted without special tools) I think are not bonded to the center sleeve.
So question is will it automaticall fail again with the poly bushes - or are they shaped with shoulders on so the arm stays centered.
Cheers
Keith
My P38 has failed the MOT because the radius arm bushes can be moved sideways. The arm is not centrally positioned between the plates and the MOT guy said that the metal to rubber bonding that would keep it central has come apart causing the arm to shift. He use a 3ft pry bar to demonstrate that there is some sideways movement - however I say the arm flex more than it moves.
Is this really an MOT failure? and the poly bushes I have ordered (as they can apparently be fitted without special tools) I think are not bonded to the center sleeve.
So question is will it automaticall fail again with the poly bushes - or are they shaped with shoulders on so the arm stays centered.
Cheers
Keith
Grit Valve
2000 4.6 Vouge
poly bushes are fine you just got old worn bushesHi - just joined
My P38 has failed the MOT because the radius arm bushes can be moved sideways. The arm is not centrally positioned between the plates and the MOT guy said that the metal to rubber bonding that would keep it central has come apart causing the arm to shift. He use a 3ft pry bar to demonstrate that there is some sideways movement - however I say the arm flex more than it moves.
Is this really an MOT failure? and the poly bushes I have ordered (as they can apparently be fitted without special tools) I think are not bonded to the center sleeve.
So question is will it automaticall fail again with the poly bushes - or are they shaped with shoulders on so the arm stays centered.
Cheers
Keith
Hi - just joined
My P38 has failed the MOT because the radius arm bushes can be moved sideways. The arm is not centrally positioned between the plates and the MOT guy said that the metal to rubber bonding that would keep it central has come apart causing the arm to shift. He use a 3ft pry bar to demonstrate that there is some sideways movement - however I say the arm flex more than it moves.
Is this really an MOT failure? and the poly bushes I have ordered (as they can apparently be fitted without special tools) I think are not bonded to the center sleeve.
So question is will it automaticall fail again with the poly bushes - or are they shaped with shoulders on so the arm stays centered.
Cheers
Keith
Sideways movement is not a fail providing the rubber is attached and the outer is not sliding along the inner. A slight delamination on the outer edges of the bushes is not a fail in my view maybe an advisory depending how bad it was. MOT states a small pry bar maybe used, a three foot long one is not a small pry bar. You could move most rubber bonded joins with that. Front radius arm bushes are there to stop the axle from twisting as power is applied. Sideways movement is controlled by the panhard rod not the radius arms. However if the radius arm is actually touching the mounting without being forced onto it with the bar he may have a point.
Grit Valve
2000 4.6 Vouge
The metal to rubber bonding has come apart i think that explains all would of thought the outer sleeve not the inner
I don't know i have not seen the vehicle. So i do not know if the rubber is detached or not. The whole point being that a three foot bar is not the small pry bar allowed to be used by the MOT tester. Almost any bonded joint can be made to flex with a bar that long. As long as it flexes then returns it should be fine and an advisory. If it has slight delamination on the outer edges. It ain't likely to fall off is it? However if it slides along the rubber inner and stays there it is duff.
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Grit Valve
2000 4.6 Vouge
Tis not the size but the force
Let the force be with you wammers , I'm sure what ever bar he was using would seem quiet honest to show the defected bush , stop Being awkward lol
fluffykeith
New Member
wow - thanks for the quick responses.
When the MOT guy showed me it looked like it returned back to the same position even though this was not central between the plates and not touching the plates.
I think he is just trying to make work for himself which backfired as I took the car away, he wanted to charge to much! But now I have to fit new ones.
Any advice on fitting the black poly ones?
It looked like I only need to undo the two bolts through the arm and the nut on the end and it will drop away.
I have to take the link bar (the one between the wheels) off anyway and either cut the bush bolts or drop down the anti roll bar as it looks like they won't slide out enough.
If I take one off at a time then the axle will stay put?
Only one side failed but I guess it's sensible to do both arms.
When the MOT guy showed me it looked like it returned back to the same position even though this was not central between the plates and not touching the plates.
I think he is just trying to make work for himself which backfired as I took the car away, he wanted to charge to much! But now I have to fit new ones.
Any advice on fitting the black poly ones?
It looked like I only need to undo the two bolts through the arm and the nut on the end and it will drop away.
I have to take the link bar (the one between the wheels) off anyway and either cut the bush bolts or drop down the anti roll bar as it looks like they won't slide out enough.
If I take one off at a time then the axle will stay put?
Only one side failed but I guess it's sensible to do both arms.
Grit Valve
2000 4.6 Vouge
yea anti roll bars are in the way , typical you have to support axel I think I put the bolt back in the opposite way last time. Ps hope there not siezed
The longer the bar the greater the force. With a big enough bar you could make a brand new bush touch the mounting. But as i say i have not seen the vehicle so can't really know if it is detached or not. Even if partially detached that particular component is unlikely to make the vehicle dangerous.
Grit Valve
2000 4.6 Vouge
True ,but Who's applying the force its not the bar tho is it ..,
fluffykeith
New Member
I agree, it's not a particularly dangerous component even if it were touching the side plate which it isn't.
He's clearly trying to make work for himself. Should I fight my case or just accept it and change them. I've bought the poly ones now so I may as well fit them.
Some more MOT grey hairs, assuming I haven't pulled it all out in frustration
He's clearly trying to make work for himself. Should I fight my case or just accept it and change them. I've bought the poly ones now so I may as well fit them.
Some more MOT grey hairs, assuming I haven't pulled it all out in frustration
Grit Valve
2000 4.6 Vouge
I agree, it's not a particularly dangerous component even if it were touching the side plate which it isn't.
He's clearly trying to make work for himself. Should I fight my case or just accept it and change them. I've bought the poly ones now so I may as well fit them.
Some more MOT grey hairs, assuming I haven't pulled it all out in frustration
You seem to know can't understand why your asking , what does it a Actually say on MOT failure did you ask to see where the rubber had split / Separated????
The MOT states that a SMALL pry bar can be used to test movement in steering and suspension components. The emphasis being on SMALL, that is because you CANNOT use too much force with a small bar no matter who is doing the barring but you can with a big one.
Grit Valve
2000 4.6 Vouge
The MOT states that a SMALL pry bar can be used to test movement in steering and suspension components. The emphasis being on SMALL, that is because you CANNOT use too much force with a small bar no matter who is doing the barring but you can with a big one.
It says wipe your feet on the way out too but people don't , its no good being silly now if a Qualified MOT inspector doesn't know What force to apply to a bar However long need I say more , You and your rules tut
I agree, it's not a particularly dangerous component even if it were touching the side plate which it isn't.
He's clearly trying to make work for himself. Should I fight my case or just accept it and change them. I've bought the poly ones now so I may as well fit them.
Some more MOT grey hairs, assuming I haven't pulled it all out in frustration
Fit your poly bushes you won't win with VOSA. Mainly because half the people that work for them don't have a bloody clue what they are looking at either. A car does not have to be in new condition to pass an MOT, reasonable wear is acceptable. Excessive wear is not. It's having the experience to be able to judge that, some testers lack. A lot as you say use MOT testing to generate work. You obviously know they were suspect or you would not have got the polies.
When you are an MOT tester of dodgy dealings you can make as much work as you want from gullible clients. Are you or have you ever been a MOT tester?
Grit Valve
2000 4.6 Vouge
No . I do understand what your saying and my cars never fail ,unless it were to be emissions , as I keep mine in tip top and always do pre inspections myself as I'm not gullible !
You may not be nor am i, but there are thousands around who are. I have done hundreds of MOTs. Work generation is foremost in the mind of some unfortunately. If that means using a big bar to generate movement where there is none then that is what they do. The MOT test is mostly visual although a few small tools can be used as aids.
