Wow, seeing those holes under the handle makes dread to think what is under mine, (I'm going to have to pluck up the courage to take a look). At least matching that nice red should be a whole lot easier than the silver - although from your pics it looked like you did a good job on that silver one anyway.
Alibro
Well-Known Member
I have a set of 15" wheels that style on my 04 K series but I want bigger wheels and tyres to get a bit more ground clearance. I know if I go too big the car will struggle to get up some of the steeper slopes so won't be going sliiy.
Alibro
Well-Known Member
I plan to strip the boot door and spray the whole thing as there are a couple of rust spots at the top edge too. Not sure how it will turn out but hopefully not too bad.
Unfortunately the boot handle is a common rust spot.
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
The TD4 engine has enough torque to pull any size of tyre you could get under the arches
There's more torque than the V6 can muster
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
Hi GG, I have ordered the TD4 dual diaphragm complete unit with master cylinder and remote today. I eventually also found a tiny leak on the vac system on mine - where the take off is for the egr - it was blanked but not very well - that has improved the old system considerably and it is perfectly acceptable.
I am 100% confident that the L series brakes with the Dual Diaphragm servo unit will be utterly superb
Vented disc do not improve actual ability braking at all. All they do is help reduce brake fade which if you suffer from it - WILL reduce brake performance. The larger disc on the TD4 etc were IMHO - fitted for the KV6 really. The larger servo (the dual unit) as fitted to the >2001 vehicles is needed to allow a suitable amount of effort from the driver to operate the system. The same servo fitted to the L series will make a huge difference to the system as the driver effort will be greatly reduced. This is all that is needed to make the L series top notch.
Providing there is adequate brake area for the design and performance levels then going larger does not really 'improve' the braking at all. It is only of any benefit if the performance of the vehicle is increased (as in the case of the range having the KV6.)
In fact, the braking effort needed for the L series with the Dual Diaphragm servo should be far less than the TD4 etc and be almost up to 'modern' standards.
At 140 Kph on the motorway this morning to Porto (Late for a hospital appointment - doh !) - came to a standing queue - (no hard shoulders here ether !!!) - no effort at all to brake to a full stop (simply considerably 'heavier' effort needed than - say - the brides 6 year old Panda).
I will update as and when the servo assembly arrives. I have no intention at all to change the discs / calipers for the slightly larger TD4 units as I genuinely do not believe they are needed. Certainly off road they are not needed - however, one could argue that with HDC in use for a considerable time then the larger brakes would not heat up as quickly hence giving much more 'sustained' use of HDC.. I must confess that this has always baffled me
I think the L series are fine - also think the change to a Later spec dual diaphragm servo unit (as per KV6 / TD4) will be a far better brake upgrade for dirvability than changing the whole system.
Joe
I suspect that the Freelander was given better brakes because that's what the buyers demanded. Don't forget that automatic transmission became available at the same time and that increases the demands on the brakes substantially. Add to that an unbraked towing weight of 750Kg, plus a full load on board and things change dramatically. The Freelander was under braked by comparison to the competition of the time. By today's standards, it's seriously under braked.
The wife's current daily driver Ford Kuga has brakes that are up to the job. However they are enormous by comparison to the Freelander's tiny disc/ drum combination. The Ford has 330mm vented discs up front and 320mm vents on the back. The Kuga doesn't actually weigh any more than the Freelander, but it'll stop in half the distance, without any of those heart stopping moments.
As far as I'm concerned, anything that makes the Freelander's brakes better is a good thing.
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Alibro
Well-Known Member
Thanks Nodge, I was hoping that was the case. Only possible issue I spotted last night was I might need different wheels with a bigger offset or spacers as taller tyres might rub the struts. Yes they would look cool but over £200. I think I'll try first and get spacers if needed.
I think I'll try first and get spacers if needed.
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
Thanks Nodge, I was hoping that was the case. Only possible issue I spotted last night was I might need different wheels with a bigger offset or spacers as taller tyres might rub the struts. Yes they would look cool but over £200.
I have a set of HSE 17s with 225/60/17 tyres fitted. They fit just fine with about 8mm air space between the strut tube and tyre wall. There is enough space between the spring cup and tread for a tyre 1/2" bigger than what I have now.
I was thinking about going up to 225/65/17, when funds allow. I want to do this with the standard wheels HSE wheels, without spacers.
Alibro
Well-Known Member
When I first got my 99 MGF in 2013 it brought me right back to the days of driving the 98 L Series bought in 06. I would push the brake pedal normally then after a second or so panic would creep in and I'd be standing on it. Maybe it was a Rover group thing at that time but whatever it was I didn't like it.
Alibro
Well-Known Member
The 17" wheels on my silver TD4 have probably over an inch of clearance so if there is an issue it will be the wheels.
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
The MGF was an interesting thing. It weighs almost nothing so should stop well. It's discs are adequate for the weight, but it's not over braked for sure. The MGF also suffers from bulkhead flex at the MC mounting. This makes the brakes feel much worse than they actually are. Cure the flex and the brakes feel much better.
The larger 330 mm discs from LE version are much better though
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
MGF brakes were Metro items, as was most of the vehicle!!
The brakes are made by Lockheed iirc.
I have some 4 pots on my Avenger GT!!
Alibro
Well-Known Member
I fitted 4 pots and 304mm disks to mine about six months before selling it. Made a massive difference so that it felt like a normal modern car. Got them cheap of ebay and replaced the seals. BTW if you ever need seals for four pots forget about ebay and go to Rimmers. Their OEM seal kits are much cheaper than anything I saw on ebay.
Joe_H
Well-Known Member
standard 15" ?
I think there is suppos
There was more than likely an issue with the system, After much trouble shooting on my L series with a similar brake issue, the problem was identified as a tiny leak on the egr vac takeoff point on the oneway valve (the pump side). The issue is now gone, the brakes are absolutely fine. The only thing I dont like is that the effort needed is high, but with the correct effort there is no issue. Many people also struggle due to servo leaks at the back where the 4 bolts go through the bulkhead. This means that the rear of the diaphragm is not subjected to vacuum as it should be. The servo is only working via the pull in on the front of the diaphragm by the vac pump ... this IS very common and leads to extremely poor braking when in slow traffic , or at the end of a hard press on the brakes where you think it is really not going to stop !.
The servo needs Vacuum on BOTH sides of the diaphragm. That is how it should work. before the pedal is pushed the diaphragm is at a vacuum on both sides. When the pedal is pushed the rear of the diaphragm is open to air in proportion to the push rod travel, when hard pressed the rear chamber is open to atmospheric air and the front is at a vacuum - as the rear WAS at a vacuum the pressure inrush on the diaphragm rear is about 2 bar hence good braking (braking within specification. A rear leak - as said incredibly common on Mk 1's ! means the servo only operates via vacuum applied to the front of the diaphragm only. This is where the main issue comes from as the vac pump can offer much much greater pull down at speed. As the vehicle speed drops, the vac pump ability reduces and the brakes get worse and worse. A very very common issue on these servo drums. The same issue can affect all rover models that use the same drum type - petrol or diesel - the rear chamber leak is an immediate loss of a huge proportion of power assist that is less noticeable at speed. (there are tests of course that are fairly east to do for this fault - but many many do not. - I think I have quoted this before - Here in Portugal at the North's freelander specialist (practically ALL here are L series- thousands of the beggars
! - he has replaced over 200 servo drums due to rear servo drum leaks in the past 4 years he has been operating. Fact. (and it isn't corrosion - certainly not here) - it seems to be the bolts (studs) mounting area cracking)The problem with most brake / size issues are usually either brake fade due to overheating and glazing which can be extremely rapid and dangerous if brakes are really not adequate - or the worst one, lack of progression. What this means is that you CAN lock the brakes given enough pressure, but you cannot really control the actual braking progression, it is a sort of all or nothing - well, quite a bit of all, quite a bit of lock, and nothing in the middle really. These are the usual signs that brakes are undersized.
Again, on the L series, I do not believe these is either of the above - purely a lack of power assist. - Answer is to fit the larger and more efficient servo - not larger brakes as the larger brakes are not needed and will not improve the braking performance..
I fully agree that when using an auto box the brake usage is higher due to less engine braking. I also agree that anything that one can do to improve brakes is good. What I do not subscribe to is that the L series - or indeed any Mk 1 NEEDS larger brakes - anything is nice to have for free mind you
again it simply needs more power assist. When working correctly (which many times they are not the L series brakes are quite good and more than adequate - simply heavy.Just imho of course
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Alibro
Well-Known Member
Been on a spending spree.
Filters ordered off Eurocarparts
Boot door regulator. (I tried fitting a cable kit to a front door recently and it lasted about a week so now I just buy them complete apart from the motor)
Modified crankcase breather off ebay
EGR bypass off ebay
More stuff to come but that's enough for tonight.
Filters ordered off Eurocarparts
Boot door regulator. (I tried fitting a cable kit to a front door recently and it lasted about a week so now I just buy them complete apart from the motor)
Modified crankcase breather off ebay
EGR bypass off ebay
More stuff to come but that's enough for tonight.
Alibro
Well-Known Member
I agree that the brakes worked fine if you gave them a big enough heave. The trouble I had was I didn't drive it often so wasn't used to pushing so hard and had a few OMG moments.standard 15" ?
I think there is suppos
There was more than likely an issue with the system, After much trouble shooting on my L series with a similar brake issue, the problem was identified as a tiny leak on the egr vac takeoff point on the oneway valve (the pump side). The issue is now gone, the brakes are absolutely fine. The only thing I dont like is that the effort needed is high, but with the correct effort there is no issue. Many people also struggle due to servo leaks at the back where the 4 bolts go through the bulkhead. This means that the rear of the diaphragm is not subjected to vacuum as it should be. The servo is only working via the pull in on the front of the diaphragm by the vac pump ... this IS very common and leads to extremely poor braking when in slow traffic , or at the end of a hard press on the brakes where you think it is really not going to stop !.
The servo needs Vacuum on BOTH sides of the diaphragm. That is how it should work. before the pedal is pushed the diaphragm is at a vacuum on both sides. When the pedal is pushed the rear of the diaphragm is open to air in proportion to the push rod travel, when hard pressed the rear chamber is open to atmospheric air and the front is at a vacuum - as the rear WAS at a vacuum the pressure inrush on the diaphragm rear is about 2 bar hence good braking (braking within specification. A rear leak - as said incredibly common on Mk 1's ! means the servo only operates via vacuum applied to the front of the diaphragm only. This is where the main issue comes from as the vac pump can offer much much greater pull down at speed. As the vehicle speed drops, the vac pump ability reduces and the brakes get worse and worse. A very very common issue on these servo drums. The same issue can affect all rover models that use the same drum type - petrol or diesel - the rear chamber leak is an immediate loss of a huge proportion of power assist that is less noticeable at speed. (there are tests of course that are fairly east to do for this fault - but many many do not. - I think I have quoted this before - Here in Portugal at the North's freelander specialist (practically ALL here are L series- thousands of the beggars
The problem with most brake / size issues are usually either brake fade due to overheating and glazing which can be extremely rapid and dangerous if brakes are really not adequate - or the worst one, lack of progression. What this means is that you CAN lock the brakes given enough pressure, but you cannot really control the actual braking progression, it is a sort of all or nothing - well, quite a bit of all, quite a bit of lock, and nothing in the middle really. These are the usual signs that brakes are undersized.
Again, on the L series, I do not believe these is either of the above - purely a lack of power assist. - Answer is to fit the larger and more efficient servo - not larger brakes as the larger brakes are not needed and will not improve the braking performance..
I fully agree that when using an auto box the brake usage is higher due to less engine braking. I also agree that anything that one can do to improve brakes is good. What I do not subscribe to is that the L series - or indeed any Mk 1 NEEDS larger brakes - anything is nice to have for free mind you
Just imho of course
The Doris had no issues with the brakes as she drove it all the time. Being an ex hockey player with very strong legs helped too.
Joe_H
Well-Known Member
The 'Doris' ROFLMFAO !!!I agree that the brakes worked fine if you gave them a big enough heave. The trouble I had was I didn't drive it often so wasn't used to pushing so hard and had a few OMG moments.
The Doris had no issues with the brakes as she drove it all the time. Being an ex hockey player with very strong legs helped too.
Love it... you crazy begger you...
Alibro
Well-Known Member
Shouldn't have to wait too long.
Alibro
Well-Known Member
S'amazin' wot I get away with on Landyzone. She never looks here.The 'Doris' ROFLMFAO !!!
Love it... you crazy begger you...
