Alibro
Well-Known Member
Do you know if anybody has tried to DIY instead of Ronbox? Would the work Joe_H is doing on his L series be similar for the TD4?
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
Er. No and No.
Ron spent many years researching the TD4 and how to extract more out of it.
I don't know of a DIY way to achieve the same results.
The things that Joe is proposing for his L won't work on the TD4. The M47R is a much more advanced engine, so needs much more advanced modifications to improve its power.
Some improvements in response can be had by improving air flow into and out of the engine. However substantial or even mild power gains will need more fuel. This is where the Ron box come into play
Joe_H
Well-Known Member
Hi GG, I have ordered the TD4 dual diaphragm complete unit with master cylinder and remote today. I eventually also found a tiny leak on the vac system on mine - where the take off is for the egr - it was blanked but not very well - that has improved the old system considerably and it is perfectly acceptable.
.I am 100% confident that the L series brakes with the Dual Diaphragm servo unit will be utterly superb
. My L series had absolutely no issues braking at all from speed, never did have - it was actually only the final 'STOP YOU B&STARD ' bit - seriously - just in traffic at low speed, or, the very final pull up. That is now great with the ridiculously hard to find vac leak cured (the gauge was no good here unfortunately as it was before the one way valve) .... So, the ONLY issue at all that I have with the L series is that - compared to a 'modern' vehicle, the braking effort by the driver is far greater - that is it - ! no brake 'performance' issues at all. - Just a heavy pedal and lack of progressive feel.Vented disc do not improve actual ability braking at all. All they do is help reduce brake fade which if you suffer from it - WILL reduce brake performance. The larger disc on the TD4 etc were IMHO - fitted for the KV6 really. The larger servo (the dual unit) as fitted to the >2001 vehicles is needed to allow a suitable amount of effort from the driver to operate the system. The same servo fitted to the L series will make a huge difference to the system as the driver effort will be greatly reduced. This is all that is needed to make the L series top notch.
Providing there is adequate brake area for the design and performance levels then going larger does not really 'improve' the braking at all. It is only of any benefit if the performance of the vehicle is increased (as in the case of the range having the KV6.)
In fact, the braking effort needed for the L series with the Dual Diaphragm servo should be far less than the TD4 etc and be almost up to 'modern' standards.
At 140 Kph on the motorway this morning to Porto (Late for a hospital appointment - doh !) - came to a standing queue - (no hard shoulders here ether !!!) - no effort at all to brake to a full stop (simply considerably 'heavier' effort needed than - say - the brides 6 year old Panda).
I will update as and when the servo assembly arrives. I have no intention at all to change the discs / calipers for the slightly larger TD4 units as I genuinely do not believe they are needed. Certainly off road they are not needed - however, one could argue that with HDC in use for a considerable time then the larger brakes would not heat up as quickly hence giving much more 'sustained' use of HDC.. I must confess that this has always baffled me
- Unless you are only planning to go down a hill really needing long use of HDC it is pretty pointless as you would have absolutely NO CHANCE of going back UP that same hill in a freelander.I think the L series are fine - also think the change to a Later spec dual diaphragm servo unit (as per KV6 / TD4) will be a far better brake upgrade for dirvability than changing the whole system.
Joe
Joe_H
Well-Known Member
True...! - but - the ronbox is not that clever really, and it only does a little bit more than the simple mod needed for the L series (but does it by a combination of analogue and digital) (I am actually going for a full remap as the 'ronbox' type mods cannot alter timing directly and also they are a bit crude for my liking). The TD4 unit is basically tapped into the fuel pressure sensor and passes false info to the ecu to increase fuel pressure. It is a simple embedded micro that has a form of 'map' built in - basically a set of pre-programmed responses. Not an exact thing like a true MAP in an ecu for example - just a simple broad lookup. It also taps into the boost sensor to sense load. I have not looked at one that close as it holds no real interest for me, however, If I was doing it I would simply take the analogue input from the sensors - apply it to a look up table in the micro (selectable tables are simplicity really as are non linear repsonses) and then output the 'fudged value' to the ecu via PWM through an RC filter .. - I am sure that is what is happening in the basic form.Er. No and No.
Ron spent many years researching the TD4 and how to extract more out of it.
I don't know of a DIY way to achieve the same results.
The things that Joe is proposing for his L won't work on the TD4. The M47R is a much more advanced engine, so needs much more advanced modifications to improve its power.
Some improvements in response can be had by improving air flow into and out of the engine. However substantial or even mild power gains will need more fuel. This is where the Ron box come into play
Same for the MAF - all that it is doing is a similar thing to the pressure sensor - tweaking the values and applying them to the ECU to fool it. Also in an effort to sell the mercedes units over the BOSCH - (to use the merc units you need to increase the MAF ouput value (meaning you have to buy the 'box' to go with it - however - that is absolutely simple to do using nothing more than an op amp an a few resistors.)
The components still cost pennies - the perceived value comes in the work done by the guy to enter the best fudge values. It is still fairly crude but it certainly works.
I personally see no reason why a simple linear tweak to the sensor would not be perfectly acceptable for the vast majority of folks! - same across the range (yes with a bit of idle disable and overrun by boost sensor tapping.)
By having a 'full digital unit' which is actually a misnomer - as they certainly are not - (they are a digital analogue combo) - it can be sold for many many models of cars - where - for example- the copy he made of the EVRY mod cannot be sold for an L series AND fit a BMW. - this makes it cost effective to produce not necessarily far improved.
So really, although the M47 engine management is certainly more advanced than the L series(not more reliable lol - but more advanced) - the actual 'tuning' box is doing little more than it did on the L series - it is simply fudging a value. You could adjust the EVRY mod for less or more - so you can for the td4, the difference being that there is some extremely basic lookup tables done in the later td4 version. the end result in the Vin Vout is little difference though if you compared it to the L series.
The main thing though is - that it works, it is not a marvel of technology - but again it does the job and that is what people want.
Many people seem to have issues with the 'tuning' box with auto tranny. This is down to lack of integration into the system. It is simply not that clever as it is still tricking sensors.
I would do my own system if I had a TD4 but for anyone not into programming embedded micros it is not feasible. - but for 99% of people an add on box is required if they want to 'tweak it' - T
there are loads of cheap ones on ebay as well, and I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss them out of hand (Some will certainly be crap - but some will be as good at a fraction of the price). - as said - it isn't rocket science what the box actually does and there are various UK sellers offering a unit with really good value. Just ask them for a warranty and if you had issues can you send it back. ?. I doubt you would in most cases.
ALL promoters of these kinds of voodoo boxes use 'theatrical license' in their descriptions of the virtues of their products - the Synergy is no difference in its speel. It is a damn good product ! - I agree, but there are others.
Alibro should have got an L series
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Joe_H
Well-Known Member
Oooooooooooooooooooooooo I DO like the colour !!! - only in this case - Nice face - shame about the legsYes I know I'm certifiable but I can't help myself and have gone and done it again.
This is Bertie, an 02 TD4 Freelander. I'd been looking at cheap Freelanders for a few weeks since deciding to get rid of the K series and let the Doris drive Audrey, the 02 4 door TD4.
View attachment 105289
View attachment 105288
I bought this one because it is in good nick, it has the good brakes (sorry guys but I never liked the brakes on my old L series) it is running well, it is a two door, it has 16" wheels not 15" (although they look much better in the photo than in real life) so I should be able to get bigger AT tyres to increase the ground clearance by an inch or so, it has reasonable mileage for an 02 car ie 139k but most of all because it was fairly cheap at £950. Anything I have seen which is much cheaper than this one was complete junk. When I worked out how much it would cost to get them road worthy they would have ended up a similar price, but I would have spent months working on them.
Yes it has the usual Freelander issues like boot door handle coming off, boot window not moving, VCU etc but these can all be fixed fairly easily and cheaply but underneath I think it is a sound car and should make a nice platform for my next project car.
I'll be updating this thread as I go along with jobs to do and prices so we can keep track of the costs of running these cars.
Those wheels really really have to go
I am sure some 'enthusiast' with a baseball cap on backwards will give you a wad of cash for them - paint them black and they will be 'sick' I think the term is. (I usually AM when I see black wheels and especially blacked indicators and light clusters and 'angel eyes' ..... (getting old now lol...)
Skinny Mike
Well-Known Member
The Synergy is the undeniable King of TD4 tuning boxes, but others have had good results from the CR Tech boxes.
Be warned though, when you put any tuning box on, it will magnify any faults in the system (fuel, electrical) and any component that's about to fail probably will.
But they are a top laugh, and make the TD4 go like a rocket. I'll never forget the look on a blokes face in a Disco sport when I left him for dead
Mike
Be warned though, when you put any tuning box on, it will magnify any faults in the system (fuel, electrical) and any component that's about to fail probably will.
But they are a top laugh, and make the TD4 go like a rocket. I'll never forget the look on a blokes face in a Disco sport when I left him for dead
Mike
Alibro
Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="
Alibro should have got an L series [/QUOTE]
Yes he should! But when did anybody ever say Alibro was a sensible chap?
Thanks for the response on the Ron box. I think it is a no brainer that I need more torque as I plan to put bigger wheels/tyres on so will spend a bit of time researching the options.
Jury is still out in the wheels as my son suggested spraying them black but if I can find a set of steels and tyres for a good price I'll go for them.
Alibro should have got an L series
[/QUOTE]Yes he should! But when did anybody ever say Alibro was a sensible chap?
Thanks for the response on the Ron box. I think it is a no brainer that I need more torque as I plan to put bigger wheels/tyres on so will spend a bit of time researching the options.
Jury is still out in the wheels as my son suggested spraying them black but if I can find a set of steels and tyres for a good price I'll go for them.
GrumpyGel
Well-Known Member
Bit like f**king diag boxes! Hawkeye has got sweat FA inside a cheap box, and they knock the out for £300.
Alibro
Well-Known Member
Not sure why the sad face at the colour. I think it is a nicer colour than mine.Ooooh, looks just like my 2001 auto that dropped off the transporter on Tuesday. I am looking forward to this thread especially the lift.. Mine is Alveston red though.
View attachment 105326
And I wish mine was Auto.
GrumpyGel
Well-Known Member
PROBLEM SOLVED - you don't need to improve the torque from the engine - just at the wheels - do what Joe's looking at - swap the Final Drive gear from a K Series gearbox - simple.
AAAAHHHH No - you bought German!
(us L Series guys will eventually tire!)
As it happens though, those wheels painted black might look completely different - not sure in a good or even worse way - but there was a thread recently of some wheels that were painted black and although I thought the outcome would be c**p - they actually looked very smart!
Having said that, not knowing what sort of quality they are, if you hit a pot hole with those babies and they'd probably shatter!
Alibro
Well-Known Member
First job started tonight, got the boot door card off to see what was wrong with the regulator and found a broken wire so new regulator ordered. While I was there I took the handle off as it was in poor shape with rust bubbling through. This is what I found beneath.
As usual the holes are rotten, the nuts are seized and the bolts have pulled out of the handle!
So that is another handle for me to fix. Last time I used lots of strong silicone to glue new bolts in and it seemed to work well so will do the same again
As usual the holes are rotten, the nuts are seized and the bolts have pulled out of the handle!
So that is another handle for me to fix. Last time I used lots of strong silicone to glue new bolts in and it seemed to work well so will do the same again
Alibro
Well-Known Member
Agreed! Steelies are the way to go.
And why do you smug so and so's have to keep pointing out I bought the wrong engine? Don't you think I've suffered enough?
Skinny Mike
Well-Known Member
Nothing wrong with the TD4 engine that hours off hard work, grazed knuckles and lots of swearing won't fix, and I mean won't fix!Agreed! Steelies are the way to go.
And why do you smug so and so's have to keep pointing out I bought the wrong engine? Don't you think I've suffered enough?
Advantage is, you can also raid all the BMW forums and YouTube vids for information. And you will, believe me, you will
Mike
Joe_H
Well-Known Member
Too true !.
I am sure the Lynx I have is the same - but it is like a brick ! - I have no idea what they have in there. Updating the firmware took about 10 minutes
It is a hefty lump. Probably has lead in it to make it feel heavier
Years back a lot of 'hi fi' separates makers used to add weight in the form of steel plate to their units - it was for absolutely no other reason than to make it 'feel' heavier hence the hoodwinked purchaser thinking - wow ! - that is much heavier than that, it must have more 'things' in it and must therefore be better...
They did it with all sorts of other things, vhs video recorders when the components became much much lighter - there was a huge box the size of the 'space' where the older unit went in the ikea 'video cabinet'
so they made the unit to this size, then because it weighed nada they added steel plate. I even saw one from Argos once that had lacquered concrete lumps in it to increase the weight...... Lynx is a nice tool though I must admit, and you get a decent, full featured software PC interface as well - instead of a tiny little screen.. Mind you, that is probably full of lead also 
B34R
Active Member
LUKBENPHI
Well-Known Member
LUKBENPHI
Well-Known Member
GrumpyGel
Well-Known Member
You need the 6 spokes for MY01+
LUKBENPHI
Well-Known Member
That's a shame I've always prefered the 5 spokes just suits the pre facelift I think
