Alibro
Well-Known Member
It had occurred John.15 years, or about 150k miles. This battery will outlast the FL1.
I'm thinking Ali might need to convert an FL2 at some point in the future, as FL1s will get harder to fine.
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Nodge68
Well-Known Member
If I had the spare cash, I'd be tempted to buy another pack, then sell the modules I didn't need. However I'd test them for capacity first, keeping the best for myself, and maybe a couple of spares, just in case.
Alibro
Well-Known Member
They should all be the same capacity as the second pack is from a car with only 2300 miles.If I had the spare cash, I'd be tempted to buy another pack, then sell the modules I didn't need. However I'd test them for capacity first, keeping the best for myself, and maybe a couple of spares, just in case.
The issue is Batteries are not as easy to sell as you might think and I might be stuck with them for a while.
But I am tempted for the reasons you suggest.
Alibro
Well-Known Member
I just found the same battery modules for £400 + delivery
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-e-Gol...005367?hash=item446fe43eb7:g:hXgAAOSwPYNf7dRr
Of course being I'm in Northern Ireland they probably won't post them here. Apart from the debacle caused by Brexit their couriers will be reluctant to ship batteries by air so they have to go by sea which causes issues.
I'm not going to panic over them as there are other options and I really don't want to throw more money at this unless I really have to. The pack I have should work perfectly well for months or even years without being balanced.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-e-Gol...005367?hash=item446fe43eb7:g:hXgAAOSwPYNf7dRr
Of course being I'm in Northern Ireland they probably won't post them here. Apart from the debacle caused by Brexit their couriers will be reluctant to ship batteries by air so they have to go by sea which causes issues.
I'm not going to panic over them as there are other options and I really don't want to throw more money at this unless I really have to. The pack I have should work perfectly well for months or even years without being balanced.
kernowsvenski
Well-Known Member
.15 years, or about 150k miles. This battery will outlast the FL1.
Pah. Tish and pish. Without the ICE these hippos will last forever!
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
How many more modules do you need to make it the same voltage as the Leaf pack?
Alibro
Well-Known Member
Two more of the 4S modules. The Leaf is 96S and the Golf is 88S
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
Not too bad then. That's ~£800 for the 2 modules.
Or however much a whole battery pack costs, minus whatever you can sell the individual modules for.
I expect there's a decent market for the modules, for use in EV projects, and home storage solutions.
Alibro
Well-Known Member
I paid £4400 for the pack I have and could probably get the other one for the same price.Not too bad then. That's ~£800 for the 2 modules.
Or however much a whole battery pack costs, minus whatever you can sell the individual modules for.
I expect there's a decent market for the modules, for use in EV projects, and home storage solutions.
There are 17 large modules and 10 small in the pack so if I kept 2 for the car and a couple of spares I could sell 13 large and 8 small.
If I could get £300 for each of the large modules they'd return £3900
If I could get £150 for each of the small modules they'd return £1200
So in theory I could increase the pack size, increase the range, enable the use of the Leaf BMS, give myself some spares and make a small profit.
However.
If selling on ebay I would need to get around £350 plus postage to return £300 due to the ebay fees and they are currently for sale at £400 plus shipping but they have been for sale for a while now and don't seem to be flying out.
Selling locally is difficult as the market is not huge.
If I sold the large modules for £250 and the small for £125 they would return £3250 and £1000 so I'd be down a little but with all the same benefits mentioned above.
But at these prices they would be much easier to sell.
Hmmmmmmmmmm.
What to do?
You could try the firm in Wales that does the Vintage Voltage show on D-MAX channel ? (https://www.electricclassiccars.co.uk/) Several of their project seem to use customised battery packs, so they might have either the spare modules you need, or buy spares from a 2nd pack off you ?
Pete
Pete
Alibro
Well-Known Member
The modules will not be any cheaper than £300 - £400 so still a lot of money on top of what I've already spent. I think I'd rather try to get by with what I've got before doing that.
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
If it were me, I'd be tempted to get another low mileage battery pack, keep what I needed, and sell what I didn't.
However it's a gamble that you can sell them all, to recoup your money.
Alternatively you're looking a £800 plus shipping for the 2 extra modules you need, which is the lower cost option, but doesn't give you any spares if needed.
Alibro
Well-Known Member
I agree John but there are two questions that need answered.
1st Will the Leaf electrics be happy with the golf pack? It will be a different chemistry with different internal resistance so it's not guaranteed. I've posted the question in the EV forum so we'll see what answers I get.
2nd do I need the extra cells? It would be nice but is it necessary? At this point I'm not sure.
I've ruled out for now anyway buying two modules. It would be madness as I'm 99% certain I could sell the rest of the pack.
If it looks like the Leaf bms is happy with the Golf chemistry I'll go for the 2nd pack.
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
I know the cell configuration is different, the Leaf being a 2S and the Golf being a 4S, but I'm guessing they are all NMC, or variations of NMC. The differing nominal voltage is strange though.
The balance and charge/ discharge voltages are more important, than knowing the exact chemistry used in an individual cell.
My guess is that the Golf cells will be slightly undercharged, with the Leaf BMS, as the nominal voltage of the Leaf chemistry is slightly lower than the Golf. However I do wonder if the Golf cell with a nominal voltage of 3.8V is a bit high for long life. The Leaf on the other hand seems a bit low with a nominal cell voltage of 3.2V.
As for needing the extra cells, well going by the difference in nominal voltage, the answer is probably no, as long as you can find a suitable BMS to keep them happy.
The balance and charge/ discharge voltages are more important, than knowing the exact chemistry used in an individual cell.
My guess is that the Golf cells will be slightly undercharged, with the Leaf BMS, as the nominal voltage of the Leaf chemistry is slightly lower than the Golf. However I do wonder if the Golf cell with a nominal voltage of 3.8V is a bit high for long life. The Leaf on the other hand seems a bit low with a nominal cell voltage of 3.2V.
As for needing the extra cells, well going by the difference in nominal voltage, the answer is probably no, as long as you can find a suitable BMS to keep them happy.
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Alibro
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure the voltage difference is that great John. The Leaf nominal Voltage per cell is 3.75V so pretty close to the VW battery but you're right about the charge and discharge cycle being important.
This guy is pretty knowledgeable and mentions the voltages at 4:28 mins in.
Alibro
Well-Known Member
Hi John
I hope you don't mind John but I thought it made sense to continue this conversation here.
I will need to solder leads to each cell and bring them out to the Leaf BMS but it may not be possible to make it work.
If it turns on and works without any interaction then happy days but if it needs to be turned on by the Leaf VCM then it will not be easy. For any Leaf to work with a different battery pack it needs a "Man in the Middle" module or it gets confused. If I can't get the BMS to work then I won't be able to use the Leaf charger and DC to DC converter so this is something that I need to spend some time on.
I haven't decided whether I should concentrate on this now or go ahead and get the batteries into the car. I guess if the leads are connected and brought out to a central location I can worry about it later.
Pics of the e-Golf battery now in bits.
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
Course you can continue here, as it's more relevant here than anywhere else.
It sounds like it could be easy or hard, but easy would be preferable.
To me makes more sense to use the Leaf charger, but if it can't be done, then another plan will need to be formed.
It makes sense to measure up and prepare the vehicle for the batteries, as it needs to be done anyway, so might as well go ahead with that, while looking at ways to make the components work together.
It sounds like it could be easy or hard, but easy would be preferable.
To me makes more sense to use the Leaf charger, but if it can't be done, then another plan will need to be formed.
It makes sense to measure up and prepare the vehicle for the batteries, as it needs to be done anyway, so might as well go ahead with that, while looking at ways to make the components work together.
Alibro
Well-Known Member
Yes I think I agree.Course you can continue here, as it's more relevant here than anywhere else.
It sounds like it could be easy or hard, but easy would be preferable.
To me makes more sense to use the Leaf charger, but if it can't be done, then another plan will need to be formed.
It makes sense to measure up and prepare the vehicle for the batteries, as it needs to be done anyway, so might as well go ahead with that, while looking at ways to make the components work together.
I'm currently trying to clear out an accumulation of 'stuff' from the garage which will be badly in the way so that will probably take up most of Saturday.
The 'stuff' is cables, old PC's and monitors that I've picked up while doing computer upgrade work for my biggest customer. It's all junk to them but will be stock for me to sell on ebay when the current work dries up.
I just need to sort it, box it up and store it in the roof space. While I'll never make a fortune with it, a few extra quid coming in when work is quite always helps.
Alibro
Well-Known Member
I've been very quiet here for a couple of weeks as nothing much has happened with life and work getting in the way, but I had a bit of fun today.
As I needed to get the car back in the garage to see what I can do about fitting batteries under it, I decided to have a go at connecting the Freelander accelerator pedal to the ebike controller.
This was partly for convenience as using a hand throttle while trying to turn the steering wheel without power assistance is not easy, and partly because tracing the throttle wires back to the ecu and identifying them is an important job anyway.
So after a lot of faffing about and misreading the connections I wrote several months ago I finally got it working.
At first I planned to use a different more powerful controller so spent a bit of time linking up a few of my 12V ex UPS batteries to make 48V. Unfortunately I had issues with the 48V controller so instead I decided to plug the 36V controller into my new 48V battery.
I wasn't really surprised that nothing bad happened as these controllers are often used with different voltages so it looks like this is OK.
Here is the pack and controller taped onto the front of the car.
It seemed to go a bit better than with the 36V ebike battery but it was always a gutless battery anyway and needed charging so that's no surprise.
What was a surprise was when I was heading for a wall, lifted off the throttle and the car kept going.
I'd forgotten a wee quirk of this controller is when you maintain throttle for a few seconds it goes into cruise control so after a bit of panic standing on the brake (no servo) I blipped the throttle and it stopped again. I think I need to connect the brake kill switch for this before something bad happens and also the ignition switch because all this happened with the car turned off.
Anyhow the car is back in the garage so I had a quick look under and I don't think I'll be able to use much of the original eGolf pack mounting points. I think the battery box at the rear may have to be made in two sections as the subframe and rear axle will be in the way but I'm not too worried about this as I never expected this part to be easy.
As I needed to get the car back in the garage to see what I can do about fitting batteries under it, I decided to have a go at connecting the Freelander accelerator pedal to the ebike controller.
This was partly for convenience as using a hand throttle while trying to turn the steering wheel without power assistance is not easy, and partly because tracing the throttle wires back to the ecu and identifying them is an important job anyway.
So after a lot of faffing about and misreading the connections I wrote several months ago I finally got it working.
At first I planned to use a different more powerful controller so spent a bit of time linking up a few of my 12V ex UPS batteries to make 48V. Unfortunately I had issues with the 48V controller so instead I decided to plug the 36V controller into my new 48V battery.
I wasn't really surprised that nothing bad happened as these controllers are often used with different voltages so it looks like this is OK.
Here is the pack and controller taped onto the front of the car.
It seemed to go a bit better than with the 36V ebike battery but it was always a gutless battery anyway and needed charging so that's no surprise.
What was a surprise was when I was heading for a wall, lifted off the throttle and the car kept going.
I'd forgotten a wee quirk of this controller is when you maintain throttle for a few seconds it goes into cruise control so after a bit of panic standing on the brake (no servo) I blipped the throttle and it stopped again. I think I need to connect the brake kill switch for this before something bad happens and also the ignition switch because all this happened with the car turned off.
Anyhow the car is back in the garage so I had a quick look under and I don't think I'll be able to use much of the original eGolf pack mounting points. I think the battery box at the rear may have to be made in two sections as the subframe and rear axle will be in the way but I'm not too worried about this as I never expected this part to be easy.
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the Update Ali.
I'm glad the activation of cruise control didn't change the shape of the Fl1.
I'm glad those SLAs are coming in handy. I knew they would, as they're a safe and convenient power source.
Maybe it's worth hooking up the ignition switch to a main contactor, so to avoid a potentially issue in the future?
I'm sure you'll work out the battery box. Some body modifications were likely, but I guess the trick will be keeping them to a minimum.
Can you build a box in the space where the exhaust box was, maybe replacing the cubby pressing with a simple flat sheet of steel instead?
I'm glad the activation of cruise control didn't change the shape of the Fl1.
I'm glad those SLAs are coming in handy. I knew they would, as they're a safe and convenient power source.
Maybe it's worth hooking up the ignition switch to a main contactor, so to avoid a potentially issue in the future?
I'm sure you'll work out the battery box. Some body modifications were likely, but I guess the trick will be keeping them to a minimum.
Can you build a box in the space where the exhaust box was, maybe replacing the cubby pressing with a simple flat sheet of steel instead?