Nodge68 · Nov 3, 2020

Right now the FL1 has gone to a new owner, its time to crack on with the FL2.

I've come to the conclusion that the ECU is faulty, so have a few options available to me.

1st is to get the JLR SDD software working on a laptop, which seems to be quite a task, as it requires windows 7 pro or ultimate, but running in 32 bit. I have a Mongoose clone lead and the SDD software on disc, I'm just missing the correct windows OS to run it.
This software "should" allow me to copy the operating parameters from the faulty ECU, over to another second hand replacement ECU.

2nd option is to get a company up north to clone my current ECU on to another ECU, which I supply.
This service will cost £125 plus whatever a second hand ECU costs, and the postage back and forth.
The only unfortunate thing is, I have no way to check that the second hand ECU I get is actually working, as if it's faulty, the £125 cloning charge will be wasted.

3rd option is to get a local firm to clone my ECU onto another ECU that they will supply. This will cost £300 plus postage, but the replacement ECU will come with a 12 month warranty, which is very useful.

So the question is, which way should I go, keeping in mind that I'm not keen on wasting money unnecessarily.

lynall · Nov 3, 2020

Local firm every time, then if no good it is their problem.
If you supply the ecu, thats it if you have an issue, its your ecu sir and so on.
300 bargain if it fixes it.

andyfreelandy · Nov 3, 2020

I would do the same as, like you Nodge I think, ecus and programming are not your chosen specialised subject area!!!

You would not be able to prove your given ecu was good or not!!

Jayridium · Nov 3, 2020

The £300 local company would be my recommendation if you want a guaranteed fix, particularly since it comes with a 12 month warranty, it might be worth the extra for the peace of mind? However, there are a couple of other alternatives to explore..

Have you considered buying a "lock set" which is all the ECU's + keys + instrument binnacle etc?
Full Monty ECU kit - £130
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LAND-ROV...827630&hash=item366d4bf2cb:g:UtcAAOSweNBfmu~A

Just the ECU's & keys £100
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Land-Rov...nder+2&hash=item217a4306f9:g:144AAOSwwH9eL0Mp

OR - since you've bought the cable and software, I can probably get the software running in a virtual box to send to you, and you could take a punt on a £60 ECU:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Freeland...257986?hash=item287e46c102:g:OvsAAOSwg6Vehd06

SWalker · Nov 3, 2020

You say the cylinder dropped out under load again - to me thats more hardware - could be software (ecu) but cant picture it.
Just thinking problems delivering excessive fuel - cold and under load.. not sure where that is leading me but i will be pondering it over...
I never got my laptop sorted out the online help nearly broke it more so going to leave it in with someone. That Jag link i put up had an export from virtual box so the hardest part is to install VB, which is no more difficult than any other program.
Then just import the image, which there is a button for.

Nodge68 · Nov 3, 2020

lynall said:
Local firm every time, then if no good it is their problem.
If you supply the ecu, thats it if you have an issue, its your ecu sir and so on.
300 bargain if it fixes it.

andyfreelandy said:
I would do the same as, like you Nodge I think, ecus and programming are not your chosen specialised subject area!!!

You would not be able to prove your given ecu was good or not!!

Jayridium said:
The £300 local company would be my recommendation if you want a guaranteed fix, particularly since it comes with a 12 month warranty, it might be worth the extra for the peace of mind?

That's the way I've been thinking.
Thanks for your views.

Jayridium said:
Have you considered buying a "lock set" which is all the ECU's + keys + instrument binnacle etc?
Full Monty ECU kit - £130

I'd rather not go down that route, simply because it messes up the mileage display, and the VIN is stored in more locations than the number of ECUs in the kit, so it'll flag errors all over the place when codes are read.

Jayridium said:
OR - since you've bought the cable and software, I can probably get the software running in a virtual box to send to you, and you could take a punt on a £60 ECU:

I wish I was PC savvy, as configuring software isn't my strong point. I had to get PRO to sort out my WOW/Delphi clone software, a it was too confusing for my old analogue brain.

SWalker said:
You say the cylinder dropped out under load again - to me thats more hardware - could be software (ecu) but cant picture it.
Just thinking problems delivering excessive fuel - cold and under load.. not sure where that is leading me but i will be pondering it over...

If you've any ideas, I'm all ears.

I've exhausted all possibilities I believe. I've checked the wiring, swapped injectors, replaced the crank sensor, checked the compression, and came to the conclusion that it must be an injector driver Mosfet breaking down when cold or under load.

lynall · Nov 3, 2020

Have you checked the wiring for the injectors, ecu to injectors themselves?
I mention it as on my D3 the conduit covering the whole engine loom has practically disengrated, wiring seems okay, but I am cereful with it just in case.

The modern trucks run lots of pwm signals, I did ask how they are checking the looms for breaks, and the answer was they connect an osciliscope, then proceed to wiggle the loom until the signal spikes, very high tech! but might be an idea for you?

Nodge68 · Nov 3, 2020

lynall said:
Have you checked the wiring for the injectors, ecu to injectors themselves?

I've done a resistance check on all the injector cables, from the injectors to the ECU plug. I've wiggled the wires, and the resistance holds firm.

I can't find anything else amiss, which is why I'm thinking ECU.

Jayridium · Nov 3, 2020

Picking up on what you said earlier, I'd now solidly suggest you go with the local firm option. I will still attempt to set up a virtual machine with SDD for you to potterabout with.

I'm already working on it for you...

Alibro · Nov 3, 2020

Jayridium said:
Picking up on what you said earlier, I'd now solidly suggest you go with the local firm option. I will still attempt to set up a virtual machine with SDD for you to potterabout with.

I'm already working on it for you...

View attachment 222574

You might want to hang fire on that. I will have a 2.5" hdd in the post to Nodge tomorrow preconfigured with Win7 32 bit for his laptop and JLR SDD software installed.
He will only need to plug it in and run it.
What you're doing might be useful for some others here so maybe keep going.

Nodge68 · Nov 3, 2020

Alibro said:
You might want to hang fire on that. I will have a 2.5" hdd in the post to Nodge tomorrow preconfigured with Win7 32 bit for his laptop and JLR SDD software installed.
He will only need to plug it in and run it.
What you're doing might be useful for some others here so maybe keep going.

Thanks Ali, you're a star.

I'd definitely rather have a go at swapping the ECU myself, as it's not only the lower cost option, but also means I should be able to do it again later, if the replacement fails while I own the vehicle.

Rank Amatuer · Nov 5, 2020

“MOSFET breaking down when cold or under load”.

You can get small cans of refrigerant, rather like WD40 tins, which you can spray on electronic components to chill them. Would it be possible to try something like that?

Nodge68 · Nov 5, 2020

Rank Amatuer said:
You can get small cans of refrigerant, rather like WD40 tins, which you can spray on electronic components to chill them. Would it be possible to try something like that?

I've got a couple of cans of chiller spray.

Unfortunately the injector drive Mosfets aren't accessible with the bottom cover off. I have however started the engine cold to check its running on 3 cylinders. Then I heated the ECU with a powerful fan heater then started the engine again, where it idled on all 4, after a short period.
It takes about 5 minutes for it to run on all 4, if I let I warm up naturally. However if I heat the ECU casing, it run of all 4 in a minute or so, so heating the ECU definitely helps.

This is why I'm looking towards the ECU, especially as it's not the original one for my year FL2 (it's a later part number), and it's been in-expertly pulled apart before I got the car.

I've a replacement ECU on the way, and I'm hoping to have a working copy of JLR SDD software soon, which should enable me to swap ECUs at will.

Wish me luck.

jedi · Nov 5, 2020

Nodge68 said:
This is why I'm looking towards the ECU, especially as it's not the original one for my year FL2 (it's a later part number), and it's been in-expertly pulled apart before I got the car

This to me sounds like someone has changed the ecu, chasing the same fault as you are now.??

Alibro · Nov 5, 2020

jedi said:
This to me sounds like someone has changed the ecu, chasing the same fault as you are now.??

That is possible but it could have been replaced for a different fault and doing so introduced the current fault.
We will never know but Nodge doesn't have too many other options accept to fix what looks like being faulty now.

Nodge68 · Nov 5, 2020

jedi said:
This to me sounds like someone has changed the ecu, chasing the same fault as you are now.??

The problem is, I've no way of knowing if the replacement ECU hasn't subsequently failed, or wasn't working correctly when it was fitted. All I know is the injectors are working, the wiring which has been probed previously, I've tested as good.

The ECU has been played with, and so it seems to be the most logical place to start, especially as I've exhausted all other alternatives at this point.

I'll get there, I'm not going to be beaten by an engine, regardless of how trying it could be.

Nodge68 · Nov 5, 2020

Alibro said:
That is possible but it could have been replaced for a different fault and doing so introduced the current fault.
We will never know but Nodge doesn't have too many other options accept to fix what looks like being faulty now.

Exactly Ali.
I'm convinced that the ECU was changed for a second hand one, but it was potentially faulty. Apparently these ECUs have a bit of a reputation for faulty injector drive circuits, so there's nothing to say that the one fitted, isn't suffering this issue.

I'd pull it apart to check the Mosfets, but apparently it's normally a one way trip for the PCB, as the Mosfets are bonded to the casing, under the board, out of sight. Obviously until I've another ECU running, I can't sacrifice the only one that is holding all the necessary data for the vehicle.

Fingers SDD works and the replacement ECU I have on the way, gets the job done.

If I prove the current ECU is faulty, then I can open it up and see what the actual issue is.

Alibro · Nov 5, 2020

Nodge68 said:
Exactly Ali.
I'm convinced that the ECU was changed for a second hand one, but it was potentially faulty. Apparently these ECUs have a bit of a reputation for faulty injector drive circuits, so there's nothing to say that the one fitted, isn't suffering this issue.

I'd pull it apart to check the Mosfets, but apparently it's normally a one way trip for the PCB, as the Mosfets are bonded to the casing, under the board, out of sight. Obviously until I've another ECU running, I can't sacrifice the only one that is holding all the necessary data for the vehicle.

Fingers SDD works and the replacement ECU I have on the way, gets the job done.

If I prove the current ECU is faulty, then I can open it up and see what the actual issue is.

Maybe a bit of heat on the casing would allow the PCB to be pulled out. I watched a guy take apart an Iphone that way but I guess that would depend on the type of glue used.
Either way you want to be messing with a known faulty spare and not your current ECU.

SWalker · Nov 5, 2020

seems to be the ECU alright. stuff like that is can be potted to protect it from the elements black stuff drys like tarmac. . if you could have a dash mounted scope to read the signal lol.
If only LR had spent a few more pennies on the software for debugging..

Nodge68 · Nov 5, 2020

Alibro said:
Maybe a bit of heat on the casing would allow the PCB to be pulled out. I watched a guy take apart an Iphone that way but I guess that would depend on the type of glue used.
Either way you want to be messing with a known faulty spare and not your current ECU.

If I can get another ECU running, then I'll put my current ECU in the oven and heat it to around 100°C. This should allow the PCB to be released from the glue keeping it firmly in place. Obviously I can't do this until I've got a replacement, as it could be a one way trip. I've spoken to 2 different ECU repair places, both have said that this type of ECU is default to repair, as it's bonded to the chassis, which is also the heat sink.

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