Yes, defender ownership is definitely a challenge. With some of my journeys being to the station I feel like it is only a matter of time.

Leaks are always a battle. I went to see a resprayed td5 110 last month. Was great, sound deadening and drove really well except the floors were completely soaked as was the sound deadening (makes it more effective??). Apparently all due to a recent clean. Yeah right.

I know D2s are less desirable in some respects but mine is probably worth a quarter of the same engined defender. I have found a 90 which has the luxury of heated seats (imagine!). Hopefully they are not the same module as in my d2 where o my one works and I think is going to catch fire at any given moment . But the 90 is listed for 18k which I have convinced myself is reasonable. My local LR specialist sometime has older 90s but most of them are high mileage pumas with 50k + price tags.

Have driven, and worked on series and defender models, I'm not a fan. They're far to old fashioned for me. They look much better than they drive, especially now I'm heading towards 60. I prefer comfort, equipment, and an easy drive, as well as the improved safety that modern vehicles have over older body on chassis designs.

Nodge68 said:

Have driven, and worked on series and defender models, I'm not a fan. They're far to old fashioned for me. They look much better than they drive, especially now I'm heading towards 60. I prefer comfort, equipment, and an easy drive, as well as the improved safety that modern vehicles have over older body on chassis designs.

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And oddly on insurance (although both high) the defender at just over twice the purchase price of the fl2 and less security is cheaper to insure. Go figure.

new to all this said:

And oddly on insurance (although both high) the defender at just over twice the purchase price of the fl2 and less security is cheaper to insure. Go figure.

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Where insurance is concerned, there's no figuring things out.

Nodge68 said:

Where insurance is concerned, there's no figuring things out.

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Agree with that. My home insurance renewal came up this month and it was 120% higher. No change to policy at all. Told them to keep it. Crazy.

I generally find a call and threat to leave can often bear fruit. It won’t eradicate the whole “annual” increase, which is always way above RPI or CPI, but you can normally get something back. Failing that, a switch (breakdown cover between the AA and RAC seems to be an annual thing for me. The joys of owing a LR!)

Of course - we shouldn’t have to do this in the first place, which does drive me mad.

@new to all this I'm having the same thoughts running through my mind at the moment.

Our current daily is a '99 L Series F1. It has been, and continues to be, an awesome car. Its been boringly reliable and flies through WOFs (MOTs) - appearing to be more successful at getting through WOFs as it gets older. The last WOF it 'failed' - but when I took it for a recheck, the guy looked at me in bemusement because it had passed! They had written the "Comments" in the "Reason for failure" box and I didn't even check that the sticker on the screen said August!

However, it is now 25 years old and must be getting to a stage where its going to need more work and off the road for periods. Its now due for a cambelt change and all those oil leaks that have been ignored, the seats are all falling to pieces, head lining falling down, paint clear coat failing, carpets shot - so its getting quite tatty. So deserves a mini restoration and maybe change of status to "hobby car".

As such, had a look at F2s. Or should I say F2 - appears there's only 1 diesel currently for sale in the South Island, luckily its the sort of spec I would look for... 2010 (so presumably has an uprated rear diff), 80k miles, nice dark grey, basic spec but lovely leather seats. Has recently had a lot of servicing work done...

Engine and Transmission Oil and filter service, changed brake and coolant fluids, replaced front discs/pads and fitted new battery, Timing and Auxilliary belts and water pump replacement. Underside sprayed with Wurth wax.

I asked if the Haldex had been serviced and the guy didn't know, said he would check with the garage. We took it for a test drive yesterday. The chap lives on the side of a hill on a narrow winding road with a drive that's got as difficult access as you would expect on such a road, so I asked him to drive first! Sat in the passenger seat, my initial reaction when he fired it up was that I thought it was noisier than I would expect an F2 to be (I have nothing to compare to). It was a cold start (on a warm day) and I don't know if I was expecting to much. I wondered to if its because I rarely sit in a passenger seat so my senses were behaving differently. But it drove really well without any fuss or noises and I lost that sense of the engine being noisy. Once he took it up the hill some way, I took over and it was a pleasure to drive. Certainly got the heart beat ticking away, but that wasn't due to the car, and more the route, took it along Summit Road around the Lyttleton Harbour crater....



So it looks a great car. Not perfect. Unfortunately it only has 1 fob/docking key (and it'll presumably cost a small fortune to buy a backup) and I hate push button start. The car has spent a lot of its life driving gravel rural roads, the bottom 1/2 of the passenger door particularly is pitted with stone chips. On the face of it, they do appear to be the only faults.

However, I'm also really worried about F2 electrical problems. I don't know if this has an electronic park brake, but its a concern, the "steering locked" problems, stupid faults that are impossible and costly to diagnose. Problems that do not need to exist because their functions offer no benefit to the vehicle and just consume $$$.

I'm also concerned about the sellers reason for selling. On the face of it, it sounds genuine. He has been through cancer treatment and wanted to get back into hiking and riding tracks on their bikes, the Freelander being a great vehicle to get them and their bikes to the tracks. But long covid has squashed that plan as he's no longer physically capable of doing that. But they have only had the car literally a couple/few months and he's 80. It sounds a very short time to change plans so drastically. It leaves them as their daily drives with a Porsche Boxster for her and a '95 Porsche 911 for him. They won't be able to take their bikes anywhere with them.

So I'm confused. Is this a really god buy (at the right price) that these guys have just spent a lot of money on servicing that won't be needed again for quite a while. Or, have they found or been told its got serious issues.

Serious issues show themselves pretty quickly. I personally prefer a fully loaded car spec wise, but leather is a nice touch, especially if it's heated. The most useful option is the heated front screen, but not all markets got those.
What spec is it?
The engine is noticeable when starting from cold and idling, but once moving the turns into a quiet hum in the background.

Electronically they're not as bad as they appear. Mine has been faultless electrical wise, except for 2 occasions where the steering lock failed to release fully, both times was because the wheel was pulling against the lock pawl. I now wiggle the wheel as I insert the key, and so the lock releases without an issue. There is an emulator which can be used to link out the steering lock, or it can be disabled using SDD, neither of which I've bothered with.
A 2010 will have a normal parking brake, not an electronic one. The shoes need periodic stripping, cleaning, lubrication and adjustment, especially on automatics where the parking brake is seldom used.

Otherwise it's just making sure it's maintained to a good standard, with 6k mile oil and filter changes with good quality fully synthetic oil and OE filters.

I love mine, so hopefully it'll keep going for another 3 years to get uni out of the way before I replace it.

Nodge68 said:

Serious issues show themselves pretty quickly. I personally prefer a fully loaded car spec wise, but leather is a nice touch, especially if it's heated. The most useful option is the heated front screen, but not all markets got those.
What spec is it?
The engine is noticeable when starting from cold and idling, but once moving the turns into a quiet hum in the background.

Electronically they're not as bad as they appear. Mine has been faultless electrical wise, except for 2 occasions where the steering lock failed to release fully, both times was because the wheel was pulling against the lock pawl. I now wiggle the wheel as I insert the key, and so the lock releases without an issue. There is an emulator which can be used to link out the steering lock, or it can be disabled using SDD, neither of which I've bothered with.
A 2010 will have a normal parking brake, not an electronic one. The shoes need periodic stripping, cleaning, lubrication and adjustment, especially on automatics where the parking brake is seldom used.

Otherwise it's just making sure it's maintained to a good standard, with 6k mile oil and filter changes with good quality fully synthetic oil and OE filters.

I love mine, so hopefully it'll keep going for another 3 years to get uni out of the way before I replace it.

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Yeh, unfortunately it doesn't have a heated screen which is a bit of a bummer cos we generally have frosts virtually every winter morning some years. Heated seats I'm not worried about.

I'm sure it is basic basic spec - has no markings to say a spec. Which surprises me that it has such nice seats. Plus they are electric, which is a shame, more to go wrong.

Good that it won't have an electronic park brake. As for maintenance of the hand brake, that's no issue. I always use the hand brake regardless of whether I'm suing a manual or auto.

Its also missing the parcel shelf in the back which is disappointing - even though the one for our current Freelander has been sat in the garage for a decade .

If you are going to buy an F2 get the Autel AP 200 the white one, it will save you a lot of money.

Also don't worry about another key fob you can get them off Ali Express cheaply.

Just go for the ones with removable batteries rather than the battery that's soldered in type.

The Ap200 will enable you to reprogram the new key, just doing that means it has paid for itself

I like chips said:

If you are going to buy an F2 get the Autel AP 200 the white one, it will save you a lot of money.

Also don't worry about another key fob you can get them off Ali Express cheaply.

Just go for the ones with removable batteries rather than the battery that's soldered in type.

The Ap200 will enable you to reprogram the new key, just doing that means it has paid for itself

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I got a quote from my local LR dealer... $1,419 (£700) lol.

I've watched this video before...



Dunno why I've watched it, because until the last few days I never thought I'd get an F2! They use the AP200 to program a fob to an F2 successfully.

So that's $119 for an AP200 and about the same from an Aussie shop supplying fobs to NZ. As you say, Ali look to have them dirt cheap.

Nodge68 said:

Serious issues show themselves pretty quickly. I personally prefer a fully loaded car spec wise, but leather is a nice touch, especially if it's heated. The most useful option is the heated front screen, but not all markets got those.
What spec is it?
The engine is noticeable when starting from cold and idling, but once moving the turns into a quiet hum in the background.

Electronically they're not as bad as they appear. Mine has been faultless electrical wise, except for 2 occasions where the steering lock failed to release fully, both times was because the wheel was pulling against the lock pawl. I now wiggle the wheel as I insert the key, and so the lock releases without an issue. There is an emulator which can be used to link out the steering lock, or it can be disabled using SDD, neither of which I've bothered with.
A 2010 will have a normal parking brake, not an electronic one. The shoes need periodic stripping, cleaning, lubrication and adjustment, especially on automatics where the parking brake is seldom used.

Otherwise it's just making sure it's maintained to a good standard, with 6k mile oil and filter changes with good quality fully synthetic oil and OE filters.

I love mine, so hopefully it'll keep going for another 3 years to get uni out of the way before I replace it.

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Not all Fl2 have heated screens maybe xs but SE and up have the cold climate pack as standard.

GrumpyGel said:

Yeh, unfortunately it doesn't have a heated screen which is a bit of a bummer cos we generally have frosts virtually every winter morning some years. Heated seats I'm not worried about.

I'm sure it is basic basic spec - has no markings to say a spec. Which surprises me that it has such nice seats. Plus they are electric, which is a shame, more to go wrong.

Good that it won't have an electronic park brake. As for maintenance of the hand brake, that's no issue. I always use the hand brake regardless of whether I'm suing a manual or auto.

Its also missing the parcel shelf in the back which is disappointing - even though the one for our current Freelander has been sat in the garage for a decade .

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It's a shame there's no heated screen, as they are very useful, especially if frost and fogging of the screen are common.
Have you thought about waiting to see if a better equipped one comes along? If it's very basic, it probably won't have terrain response, which is it's party piece.

I'd not dismiss a FL2 because it's fully loaded with toys, as those are very reliable. It's the driveline that's the weak part, much like the FL1. So things like matching tyres all round and maintenance are more important than how many creature comforts are fitted. If a vehicle you buy is missing a useful piece of kit, then you'll never completely happy with it.

WhiskyLassie said:

Not all Fl2 have heated screens maybe xs but SE and up have the cold climate pack as standard.

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It also varied by market too. There's a reason I specifically went for an SE, as it has most of what the HSE had, but for a lot less money at the time. I don't like a vehicle without a heated screen now, as they're just so useful. The wife's Audi doesn't have one, and the inconvenience is obvious the moment I get in it.

The one I am looking at is the HSE and that has a heated screen in the front and will be very useful in the U.K. winters out here in the sticks. I think there is also an hse lux but not sure what that adds.

After driving it and getting in my disco it really is noticeable how old the d2 is and how far somethings have come. I particularly like the steering as I have said although some tendency like the disco 5 to be a bit boat like. I think in the fl2 it is just a matter of me using light adjustments rather than big ones as I would in the d2.

I am going to check how much an ATF change will cost here and then go back to drive at the weekend. My senses tell me I am going to go for it. I will miss the size of the d2 but possibly not the length in car parks.

new to all this said:

The one I am looking at is the HSE and that has a heated screen in the front and will be very useful in the U.K. winters out here in the sticks. I think there is also an hse lux but not sure what that adds.

After driving it and getting in my disco it really is noticeable how old the d2 is and how far somethings have come. I particularly like the steering as I have said although some tendency like the disco 5 to be a bit boat like. I think in the fl2 it is just a matter of me using light adjustments rather than big ones as I would in the d2.

I am going to check how much an ATF change will cost here and then go back to drive at the weekend. My senses tell me I am going to go for it. I will miss the size of the d2 but possibly not the length in car parks.

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HSE and HSE LUX are similar, I believe the latter adds xenon headlamps, which are worth having. I think the seats are a bit more posh too, but not a lot else will be different.

The steering on the FL2 is much more precise compared to the D2, but yes you have to get used to just how responsive it is. It's a joy to use once you're used to it. The FL2 can be chucked about on the twisty roads dispite the body roll, but the latter is less than the D2.

The FL2 and D2 are different sizes, the D2 is 20cm longer and 20cm taller, but interestingly only 1cm wider. Despite the FL2 being 20cm shorter than the D2, the wheelbase of the FL2 12cm longer, meaning more legroom inside, and shorter overhangs front and back.

I think its a good compromise between interior space and external dimensions.

new to all this said:

The one I am looking at is the HSE and that has a heated screen in the front and will be very useful in the U.K. winters out here in the sticks. I think there is also an hse lux but not sure what that adds.

After driving it and getting in my disco it really is noticeable how old the d2 is and how far somethings have come. I particularly like the steering as I have said although some tendency like the disco 5 to be a bit boat like. I think in the fl2 it is just a matter of me using light adjustments rather than big ones as I would in the d2.

I am going to check how much an ATF change will cost here and then go back to drive at the weekend. My senses tell me I am going to go for it. I will miss the size of the d2 but possibly not the length in car parks.

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Our first LR was a 300TDI D1. We sold that when we moved over here and got a D1 V8.

We ran that for 7 years (somehow as the engine continually gave problems) and switched to a F1.

At first I missed having a "full fat" Landie and was rather bored by the F1. But I pretty soon got to really enjoy the F1.

A lot of that enjoyment was the simplicity of working on it, for a '4WD' they are a home mechanics dream. So it worries me some shifting to an F2 from that perspective, but the car itself should be great.

I offered the guy $12k (£6k) last night, which in the UK I think the seller would have yanked my arm off to sell it, but he's come back and said he wants $13.5k. My worries about whether the car has any issues have been eased, I'm sure the guy is selling it without (any known) issues.

GrumpyGel said:

Our first LR was a 300TDI D1. We sold that when we moved over here and got a D1 V8.

We ran that for 7 years (somehow as the engine continually gave problems) and switched to a F1.

At first I missed having a "full fat" Landie and was rather bored by the F1. But I pretty soon got to really enjoy the F1.

A lot of that enjoyment was the simplicity of working on it, for a '4WD' they are a home mechanics dream. So it worries me some shifting to an F2 from that perspective, but the car itself should be great.

I offered the guy $12k (£6k) last night, which in the UK I think the seller would have yanked my arm off to sell it, but he's come back and said he wants $13.5k. My worries about whether the car has any issues have been eased, I'm sure the guy is selling it without (any known) issues.

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I'd be tempted to call his bluff. He might think it's worth more than it is, then change him mind when he gets no offers.
In the UK a similar age base spec is worth about £2k.
A 2008 HSE is currently on sale on another LR forum by an owner enthusiast, really nice condition for £2.5k.

Is importing one from the UK feasible?

Nodge68 said:

I'd be tempted tobcall his bluff. He might think it's worth more than it is, then change him mind when he gets no offers.
In the UK a similar age base spec is worth about £2k.
A 2008 HSE is currently on sale on another LR forum by an owner enthusiast, really nice condition for £2.5k.

Is importing one from the UK feasible?

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Cost wise, by the time you've shipped it, there'd probably be little difference.

Hassle wise, you'd obviously have to wait a couple of months after splashing your cash, and the vehicle would need to be certified which basically involves stripping it to its body shell by an authorised testing center (hassle and cost). It would probably fail certification, because...

The biggest problem though, would be that it would be full of rust! My 25 year old NZ new F1 is brand spanking underneath - not many similar aged UK cars could claim that. As well as in tact metal parts, I've never had to replace drop links, bushes or anything like that, and bolts come off if you put a socket on them, they're not seized or crumble! NZ cars are a lot easier to maintain.

Nodge68 said:

I'd be tempted to call his bluff. He might think it's worth more than it is, then change him mind when he gets no offers.
In the UK a similar age base spec is worth about £2k.
A 2008 HSE is currently on sale on another LR forum by an owner enthusiast, really nice condition for £2.5k.

Is importing one from the UK feasible?

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I really don't want to get into calling bluff type games, he's a really nice fella. I told him that the car's first journey might be to Dunedin (about 5 hours away) to pick up a Scimitar SS1 that I'm looking at. After we test drove the car, he sent me a text with various bits of info and in it he said that if I don't find a co driver to go down to Dunners with, he has a friend down there he hasn't seen in a while and would be keen to join me and drive the F2 back

I think with chat like that, he's a pretty genuine seller.

I've always thought that if I get a F2 it would need to be a 2010+ car as they have an improved rear diff. NZ cars may be in better condition, but if parts like the diff go, I can't just "pop round" to Bell Engineering!