I really don't want to get into calling bluff type games, he's a really nice fella. I told him that the car's first journey might be to Dunedin (about 5 hours away) to pick up a Scimitar SS1 that I'm looking at. After we test drove the car, he sent me a text with various bits of info and in it he said that if I don't find a co driver to go down to Dunners with, he has a friend down there he hasn't seen in a while and would be keen to join me and drive the F2 back :)

I think with chat like that, he's a pretty genuine seller.

I've always thought that if I get a F2 it would need to be a 2010+ car as they have an improved rear diff. NZ cars may be in better condition, but if parts like the diff go, I can't just "pop round" to Bell Engineering!

Yep - the offer to co-drive on a road-trip with it does make it sound a legit sale.
…It’d be a bloody uncomfortable journey if it starts playing up 30 minutes into it!
 
I really don't want to get into calling bluff type games, he's a really nice fella. I told him that the car's first journey might be to Dunedin (about 5 hours away) to pick up a Scimitar SS1 that I'm looking at. After we test drove the car, he sent me a text with various bits of info and in it he said that if I don't find a co driver to go down to Dunners with, he has a friend down there he hasn't seen in a while and would be keen to join me and drive the F2 back :)

I think with chat like that, he's a pretty genuine seller.

I've always thought that if I get a F2 it would need to be a 2010+ car as they have an improved rear diff. NZ cars may be in better condition, but if parts like the diff go, I can't just "pop round" to Bell Engineering!

He does sound genuine, I was going on the information you gave yesterday.

They're good tow vehicles, and perfect for transporting classic cars about.

Unfortunately there's isn't a firm date for the later diff to be fitted, but it's pretty mute anyway, as even the later diffs suffer bearing failure. The issue is caused by a couple of things, the programming of the Haldex being one, and odd tyres is another. The programming engages the Haldex whenever the vehicle pulls away from rest, which puts strain on the driveline, especially if tyres are odd or the vehicle is turning. There's another issue that effects the Haldex itself, basically it comes in earlier than it should, increasing the chances of driveline items failing. The PTU splines are just as likely to give issues as the rear diff as they are also loaded up in the above circumstances. Of course not specifying fluid changes doesn't help.

I'd not worry about it though, as I suspect there are far more FL2s without an issues than there are with issues, especially if owners have serviced such items.
 
HSE and HSE LUX are similar, I believe the latter adds xenon headlamps, which are worth having. I think the seats are a bit more posh too, but not a lot else will be different.

The steering on the FL2 is much more precise compared to the D2, but yes you have to get used to just how responsive it is. It's a joy to use once you're used to it. The FL2 can be chucked about on the twisty roads dispite the body roll, but the latter is less than the D2.

The FL2 and D2 are different sizes, the D2 is 20cm longer and 20cm taller, but interestingly only 1cm wider. Despite the FL2 being 20cm shorter than the D2, the wheelbase of the FL2 12cm longer, meaning more legroom inside, and shorter overhangs front and back.

I think it’s a good compromise between interior space and external dimensions.
When I drove the f2 it didn’t seem to be much smaller if at all but it does have parking aids which does help a lot and was something I missed.

Most of the conversions with my wife have started with - but it’s not a proper Land Rover 😂.

Pricing is something I am not sure about as they range a lot from 6-9k for a 2010-2013 model.

This is a 2010 model and hasn’t been off road at all or towed anything but the price is 8k.
 
When I drove the f2 it didn’t seem to be much smaller if at all but it does have parking aids which does help a lot and was something I missed.

Most of the conversions with my wife have started with - but it’s not a proper Land Rover 😂.

Pricing is something I am not sure about as they range a lot from 6-9k for a 2010-2013 model.

This is a 2010 model and hasn’t been off road at all or towed anything but the price is 8k.
My D2 owning neighbour was surprised at how large the FL2 was, being almost as large as the Disco, he even even commented that the interior had more space than the Disco.

Prices can fluctuate quite a lot, depending on private or dealer, location and season.
When I was looking almost 4 years ago, a 2009 SE with average milage was about £6k, at the time I wasn't prepared to pay, I still wouldn't TBH.
Mine was a trade buy with a few issues, one needed a replacement cylinder head and piston, the other was a noisy rear diff, and it needed a tyre. I paid £2k for mine, then spent another £1k repairing it, but that also included new brakes all round, included the parking brake shoes, springs and cables.

Unfortunately at the time I "cheaped out" on the head gasket kit, which has now developed a leak, but otherwise it's been trouble free.
It's very economical too, once on the open road with CC set to 65 MPH. At that speed it does about 45 MPG, which is pretty good for a large heavy vehicle.
 
My D2 owning neighbour was surprised at how large the FL2 was, being almost as large as the Disco, he even even commented that the interior had more space than the Disco.

Prices can fluctuate quite a lot, depending on private or dealer, location and season.
When I was looking almost 4 years ago, a 2009 SE with average milage was about £6k, at the time I wasn't prepared to pay, I still wouldn't TBH.
Mine was a trade buy with a few issues, one needed a replacement cylinder head and piston, the other was a noisy rear diff, and it needed a tyre. I paid £2k for mine, then spent another £1k repairing it, but that also included new brakes all round, included the parking brake shoes, springs and cables.

Unfortunately at the time I "cheaped out" on the head gasket kit, which has now developed a leak, but otherwise it's been trouble free.
It's very economical too, once on the open road with CC set to 65 MPH. At that speed it does about 45 MPG, which is pretty good for a large heavy vehicle.
Thanks for the comparison. The d2 is always getting complaints from rear passengers as it’s a bit tight to get into.

D2 is very thirsty even though I drive sensibly.

I am actually looking forward to a fl2 if I can get the numbers right.
 
If you are going to buy an F2 get the Autel AP 200 the white one, it will save you a lot of money.

Also don't worry about another key fob you can get them off Ali Express cheaply.

Just go for the ones with removable batteries rather than the battery that's soldered in type.

The Ap200 will enable you to reprogram the new key, just doing that means it has paid for itself


I read here that the Autel diagnostic is recommended.
I have heard good things about that one.
Is it any good for a range of cars, not just LR's ?
 
Jusr a few thoughts on the negatives of FL2 ownership, which potential new owners need to be aware of.

While there are horror stories about reliability, dodgy rear diff and unreliable electronics in particular seem prevalent on the web.

The rear diff is well known to give issues, many being replaced under warranty, but also many after the warranty ran out. LR made a change to the input bearing dimensions some time in 2010, probably the latter part of 2010. I've been unable to identify a particular chassis number after which all rear diffs had the larger input bearing.
I don't believe the size if the bearing is solely responsible for the failures, but fitting the larger bearing did sort of help.
The PTU is another common failure point, both the splines to the gearbox and the PTU gears themselves are known to fail. PTU failure is more expensive to sort than the rear diff, as it's a more complex unit to manufacture amd repair. Additionally if the splines strip on the gearbox side of the link tube, then the gearbox crown wheel will also need replacing.

Both of these failures are likely due to automatic Haldex engagement whenever the vehicle pulls away from rest, which seems silly to me, but that's what the boffins at LR did. Obviously having the AWD engage so often means the tyres need to be identical, with similar tread depth all round. Maintaining tyres like this will minimise the strain on the AWD components under normal driving.

The later Gen4 Haldex itself can also develop a particularly nasty fault, where it engages much earlier than it should, causing shuddering of the drive line under slow cornering and under moderate to high acceleration in 1st and 2nd gear. This is caused by the hydraulic accumulator getting filled with cluch pack residues, which prevents the piston from moving it's full travel. This means the Haldex engagement comes in much earlier than LR intended, creating worse problems with the PTU and diff.

Many of these AWD system issues could have been reduced if LR had specified sensible fluid change intervals, rather than treating the various components as filled for life.

While discussing the drive line, the automatic transmission has been known to give issues, mostly confined to the torque converter clutch, and lack of software updates.
It's likely that the lack of timely fluid changes is at least partly to blame for TC clutch issues. A gentle shuddering felt in 5th and 6th gears at higher speeds is a sign of TC clutch issues. Replacing the TC is the only cure for this, after which the gearbox adaptions need to be reset.

The engine is on the whole pretty robust, the block itself good for well over 250k miles if the correct oil and filter maintenance schedule is followed.

There are some issues with ancillary components however. The injectors are generally good for about 100k miles, after which they can become troublesome, although that's not a guarantee.
Changing an injector isn't that difficult, however the ECM does need coding to the replacements, and the injectors themselves are expensive.

The EGR valve is known to give issues, as is the EGR cooler. It's a DIY replacement if needed, but an air path calibration is needed once the replacement EGR is fitted, or it won't function correctly.
The throttle body is also known to give issues, replacement being necessary, although repair gears are available for it.

Boost hoses are a common failure point, especially as they age. Replacement is easy, and silicone versions are available for a belts n braces repair.

The turbo can give trouble, but this is mostly due to the vanes sticking from lack of movement in normal driving. LR have published a repair bulletin for this.
The turbo actuator has also been known to fail, possibly due to sticking vanes. The turbo and actuator are calibrated together, so can't be replaced separately, although it has been done, but with unknown reliability.

The crank sensor is another common failure point, often starting as a misfire under load, before finally failing completely. If the crank sensor fails, the engine won't run. They're cheap and very easy to replace, and worth keeping in the vehicle just in case.

Those are the main issues with the FL2. You'll notice I didn't mention much electronic stuff, that's mostly because they aren't really that unreliable in that department.
Yes the steering lock can give issues, and the key dock too, but the rest of the electrical system has much the same reliability as the Freelander 1.

I would say that a good code reader / programmer is a must have item, otherwise the rest of the vehicle maintenance can be done with normal tools.
 
Appreciate the in-depth info… good to know for the future, as at some point I may well venture into a FL2
 
Jusr a few thoughts on the negatives of FL2 ownership, which potential new owners need to be aware of.

While there are horror stories about reliability, dodgy rear diff and unreliable electronics in particular seem prevalent on the web.

The rear diff is well known to give issues, many being replaced under warranty, but also many after the warranty ran out. LR made a change to the input bearing dimensions some time in 2010, probably the latter part of 2010. I've been unable to identify a particular chassis number after which all rear diffs had the larger input bearing.
I don't believe the size if the bearing is solely responsible for the failures, but fitting the larger bearing did sort of help.
The PTU is another common failure point, both the splines to the gearbox and the PTU gears themselves are known to fail. PTU failure is more expensive to sort than the rear diff, as it's a more complex unit to manufacture amd repair. Additionally if the splines strip on the gearbox side of the link tube, then the gearbox crown wheel will also need replacing.

Both of these failures are likely due to automatic Haldex engagement whenever the vehicle pulls away from rest, which seems silly to me, but that's what the boffins at LR did. Obviously having the AWD engage so often means the tyres need to be identical, with similar tread depth all round. Maintaining tyres like this will minimise the strain on the AWD components under normal driving.

The later Gen4 Haldex itself can also develop a particularly nasty fault, where it engages much earlier than it should, causing shuddering of the drive line under slow cornering and under moderate to high acceleration in 1st and 2nd gear. This is caused by the hydraulic accumulator getting filled with cluch pack residues, which prevents the piston from moving it's full travel. This means the Haldex engagement comes in much earlier than LR intended, creating worse problems with the PTU and diff.

Many of these AWD system issues could have been reduced if LR had specified sensible fluid change intervals, rather than treating the various components as filled for life.

While discussing the drive line, the automatic transmission has been known to give issues, mostly confined to the torque converter clutch, and lack of software updates.
It's likely that the lack of timely fluid changes is at least partly to blame for TC clutch issues. A gentle shuddering felt in 5th and 6th gears at higher speeds is a sign of TC clutch issues. Replacing the TC is the only cure for this, after which the gearbox adaptions need to be reset.

The engine is on the whole pretty robust, the block itself good for well over 250k miles if the correct oil and filter maintenance schedule is followed.

There are some issues with ancillary components however. The injectors are generally good for about 100k miles, after which they can become troublesome, although that's not a guarantee.
Changing an injector isn't that difficult, however the ECM does need coding to the replacements, and the injectors themselves are expensive.

The EGR valve is known to give issues, as is the EGR cooler. It's a DIY replacement if needed, but an air path calibration is needed once the replacement EGR is fitted, or it won't function correctly.
The throttle body is also known to give issues, replacement being necessary, although repair gears are available for it.

Boost hoses are a common failure point, especially as they age. Replacement is easy, and silicone versions are available for a belts n braces repair.

The turbo can give trouble, but this is mostly due to the vanes sticking from lack of movement in normal driving. LR have published a repair bulletin for this.
The turbo actuator has also been known to fail, possibly due to sticking vanes. The turbo and actuator are calibrated together, so can't be replaced separately, although it has been done, but with unknown reliability.

The crank sensor is another common failure point, often starting as a misfire under load, before finally failing completely. If the crank sensor fails, the engine won't run. They're cheap and very easy to replace, and worth keeping in the vehicle just in case.

Those are the main issues with the FL2. You'll notice I didn't mention much electronic stuff, that's mostly because they aren't really that unreliable in that department.
Yes the steering lock can give issues, and the key dock too, but the rest of the electrical system has much the same reliability as the Freelander 1.

I would say that a good code reader / programmer is a must have item, otherwise the rest of the vehicle maintenance can be done with normal tools.
Thank you that is really helpful although not sure it convinces me to go ahead with the FL2 I was looking at being as it is just at 100k and although Haldex was serviced last December, gearbox and diff fluids are overdue/need changing.
 
Thank you that is really helpful although not sure it convinces me to go ahead with the FL2 I was looking at being as it is just at 100k and although Haldex was serviced last December, gearbox and diff fluids are overdue/need changing.
I'd still have one, well I do.
Just because lots of items can potentially go wrong, doesn't mean that they will. At 100k the diff and possibly the PTU will have already been replaced.
Just make sure the tyres are the same, and have similar tread. Also make sure there's no thumping when taking a slow corner under acceleration.
The rest of the issues are just wear and tear, so can be addressed as and when needed. ;)
 
I'd still have one, well I do.
Just because lots of items can potentially go wrong, doesn't mean that they will. At 100k the diff and possibly the PTU will have already been replaced.
Just make sure the tyres are the same, and have similar tread. Also make sure there's no thumping when taking a slow corner under acceleration.
The rest of the issues are just wear and tear, so can be addressed as and when needed. ;)
I follow that logic normally (need to with a d2) but nothing of that level has been changed on the prospective purchase. All original ptu, diff haldex despite 100k. Would you expect them to fail before then? Eg am I just waiting for it to go?
 
Jusr a few thoughts on the negatives of FL2 ownership, which potential new owners need to be aware of.

While there are horror stories about reliability, dodgy rear diff and unreliable electronics in particular seem prevalent on the web.

The rear diff is well known to give issues, many being replaced under warranty, but also many after the warranty ran out. LR made a change to the input bearing dimensions some time in 2010, probably the latter part of 2010. I've been unable to identify a particular chassis number after which all rear diffs had the larger input bearing.
I don't believe the size if the bearing is solely responsible for the failures, but fitting the larger bearing did sort of help.
The PTU is another common failure point, both the splines to the gearbox and the PTU gears themselves are known to fail. PTU failure is more expensive to sort than the rear diff, as it's a more complex unit to manufacture amd repair. Additionally if the splines strip on the gearbox side of the link tube, then the gearbox crown wheel will also need replacing.

Both of these failures are likely due to automatic Haldex engagement whenever the vehicle pulls away from rest, which seems silly to me, but that's what the boffins at LR did. Obviously having the AWD engage so often means the tyres need to be identical, with similar tread depth all round. Maintaining tyres like this will minimise the strain on the AWD components under normal driving.

The later Gen4 Haldex itself can also develop a particularly nasty fault, where it engages much earlier than it should, causing shuddering of the drive line under slow cornering and under moderate to high acceleration in 1st and 2nd gear. This is caused by the hydraulic accumulator getting filled with cluch pack residues, which prevents the piston from moving it's full travel. This means the Haldex engagement comes in much earlier than LR intended, creating worse problems with the PTU and diff.

Many of these AWD system issues could have been reduced if LR had specified sensible fluid change intervals, rather than treating the various components as filled for life.

While discussing the drive line, the automatic transmission has been known to give issues, mostly confined to the torque converter clutch, and lack of software updates.
It's likely that the lack of timely fluid changes is at least partly to blame for TC clutch issues. A gentle shuddering felt in 5th and 6th gears at higher speeds is a sign of TC clutch issues. Replacing the TC is the only cure for this, after which the gearbox adaptions need to be reset.

The engine is on the whole pretty robust, the block itself good for well over 250k miles if the correct oil and filter maintenance schedule is followed.

There are some issues with ancillary components however. The injectors are generally good for about 100k miles, after which they can become troublesome, although that's not a guarantee.
Changing an injector isn't that difficult, however the ECM does need coding to the replacements, and the injectors themselves are expensive.

The EGR valve is known to give issues, as is the EGR cooler. It's a DIY replacement if needed, but an air path calibration is needed once the replacement EGR is fitted, or it won't function correctly.
The throttle body is also known to give issues, replacement being necessary, although repair gears are available for it.

Boost hoses are a common failure point, especially as they age. Replacement is easy, and silicone versions are available for a belts n braces repair.

The turbo can give trouble, but this is mostly due to the vanes sticking from lack of movement in normal driving. LR have published a repair bulletin for this.
The turbo actuator has also been known to fail, possibly due to sticking vanes. The turbo and actuator are calibrated together, so can't be replaced separately, although it has been done, but with unknown reliability.

The crank sensor is another common failure point, often starting as a misfire under load, before finally failing completely. If the crank sensor fails, the engine won't run. They're cheap and very easy to replace, and worth keeping in the vehicle just in case.

Those are the main issues with the FL2. You'll notice I didn't mention much electronic stuff, that's mostly because they aren't really that unreliable in that department.
Yes the steering lock can give issues, and the key dock too, but the rest of the electrical system has much the same reliability as the Freelander 1.

I would say that a good code reader / programmer is a must have item, otherwise the rest of the vehicle maintenance can be done with normal tools.
So, rather like the F1, the main problems come down to the device transferring torque to the back axle (VCU/Haldex) and tyres.

Is it possible to disable the Haldex, and if it is disabled, would it be guaranteed to transfer no/low torque?

I've lived quite happily for 10 years with a 2WD F1. But, it would be brilliant to live with a switchable 2WD/AWD car.
 
I follow that logic normally (need to with a d2) but nothing of that level has been changed on the prospective purchase. All original ptu, diff haldex despite 100k. Would you expect them to fail before then? Eg am I just waiting for it to go?
If the driveline is all quiet, then it can be considered serviceable. Just make sure the expensive parts are treated to nice fresh lubricants. This is the main issue, as LR didn't consider the driveline components service items, so didn't even include drain plugs. These items don't just go, they get noisy a long time before the issue needs dealing with.
I pump old oil out, and fresh oil back in with my trusty £15 electric pump.

So, rather like the F1, the main problems come down to the device transferring torque to the back axle (VCU/Haldex) and tyres.

Is it possible to disable the Haldex, and if it is disabled, would it be guaranteed to transfer no/low torque?

I've lived quite happily for 10 years with a 2WD F1. But, it would be brilliant to live with a switchable 2WD/AWD car.
You can simply pull the Haldex fuse, which stops is from transferring any drive at all. The downside is it will flash the DSC light while the engine is running, and also put a warning on the LCD saying there's an issue with the terrain response.
While the DSC light is flashing, DSC, TC and HDC won't function, otherwise there's no other issues.

If the Haldex is working, it's best to use it, but if it gets upset, it can simply be turned off by pulling fuse FB6.
 
If the driveline is all quiet, then it can be considered serviceable. Just make sure the expensive parts are treated to nice fresh lubricants. This is the main issue, as LR didn't consider the driveline components service items, so didn't even include drain plugs. These items don't just go, they get noisy a long time before the issue needs dealing with.
I pump old oil out, and fresh oil back in with my trusty £15 electric pump.


You can simply pull the Haldex fuse, which stops is from transferring any drive at all. The downside is it will flash the DSC light while the engine is running, and also put a warning on the LCD saying there's an issue with the terrain response.
While the DSC light is flashing, DSC, TC and HDC won't function, otherwise there's no other issues.

If the Haldex is working, it's best to use it, but if it gets upset, it can simply be turned off by pulling fuse FB6.
Thank you once again. Great advice. I’m still yo yoing but know my d2 isn’t going to last forever and is not much fun on the longer journeys or short!
 
Thank you once again. Great advice. I’m still yo yoing but know my d2 isn’t going to last forever and is not much fun on the longer journeys or short!
I was also unsure about the FL2 before I took the plunge. Yes mine has had issues, but the drive, performance, functionality and fuel economy more than make up for any issues I've had.
Like I said mine was cheap at the time, and I reckon I could still sell it for what it cost me nearly 4 years later. Will I sell it, no, not yet. I've just ordered some more speakers for it to upgrade the audio system to the Logic 7 system fitted to the HSE. The best value upgrade I did was fit a leather steering wheel, as the standard polyurethane SE wheel just let it down. The leather one is miles nicer to use, which considering it's in the hand most of the time, it needed to feel good. After the audio system is sorted, I'm thinking about replacing the rear subframe, as it's getting a bit corroded in places. I've also got to replace the head gasket again too, but I've been putting it off because it's a 12 hour job. I've also got 4 replacement injectors to install, as the ones in mine have been "reconditioned", which actually isn't really possible. Then it'll need 4 shiny new Goodyear Wrangler HP all weather tyres before next winter, to replace the current 4.5mm tread Chinese tyres. I'm just waiting for a deal to come up, so helping towards the cost a bit.

On the road the FL2 just eats the miles. Get it on the M way at 65 with CC set, and just point it where it you want it to go. Drive wise, it's much nicer than the wife's Audi A5, although the Audi has a better audio system, and is much faster. The Freelander is just nice though, quiet, comfortable, economical and spacious.
 
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I was also unsure about the FL2 before I took the plunge. Yes mine has had issues, but the drive, performance, functionality and fuel economy more than make up for any issues I've had.
Like I said mine was cheap at the time, and I reckon I could still sell it for what it cost me nearly 4 years later. Will I sell it, no, not yet. I've just ordered some more speakers for it to upgrade the audio system to the Logic 7 system fitted to the HSE. The best value upgrade I did was fit a leather steering wheel, as the standard polyurethane SE wheel just let it down. The leather one is miles nicer to use, which considering it's in the hand most of the time, it needed to feel good. After the audio system is sorted, I'm thinking about replacing the rear subframe, as it's getting a bit corroded in places. I've also got to replace the head gasket again too, but I've been putting it off because it's a 12 hour job. I've also got 4 replacement injectors to install, as the ones in mine have been "reconditioned", which actually isn't really possible. Then it'll need 4 shiny new Goodyear Wrangler HP all weather tyres before next winter, to replace the current 4.5mm tread Chinese tyres. I'm just waiting for a deal to come up, so helping towards the cost a bit.

On the road the FL2 just eats the miles. Get it on the M way at 65 with CC set, and just point it where it you want it to go. Drive wise, it's much nicer than the wife's Audi A5, although the Audi has a better audio system, and is much faster. The Freelander is just nice though, quiet, comfortable, economical and spacious.

I’d like to be first in the queue if/when you sell yours…
 
I’d like to be first in the queue if/when you sell yours…
It'll be a few years yet, as it's a useful university junk transporter. Once the girls are finished with uni, I'll be in the position to go electric, at which point I'll move the Freelander on. I'm still hoping that Fisker manage to stay in business, as I really do like the Ocean. Fingers crossed on that.
 
I was also unsure about the FL2 before I took the plunge. Yes mine has had issues, but the drive, performance, functionality and fuel economy more than make up for any issues I've had.
Like I said mine was cheap at the time, and I reckon I could still sell it for what it cost me nearly 4 years later. Will I sell it, no, not yet. I've just ordered some more speakers for it to upgrade the audio system to the Logic 7 system fitted to the HSE. The best value upgrade I did was fit a leather steering wheel, as the standard polyurethane SE wheel just let it down. The leather one is miles nicer to use, which considering it's in the hand most of the time, it needed to feel good. After the audio system is sorted, I'm thinking about replacing the rear subframe, as it's getting a bit corroded in places. I've also got to replace the head gasket again too, but I've been putting it off because it's a 12 hour job. I've also got 4 replacement injectors to install, as the ones in mine have been "reconditioned", which actually isn't really possible. Then it'll need 4 shiny new Goodyear Wrangler HP all weather tyres before next winter, to replace the current 4.5mm tread Chinese tyres. I'm just waiting for a deal to come up, so helping towards the cost a bit.

On the road the FL2 just eats the miles. Get it on the M way at 65 with CC set, and just point it where it you want it to go. Drive wise, it's much nicer than the wife's Audi A5, although the Audi has a better audio system, and is much faster. The Freelander is just nice though, quiet, comfortable, economical and spacious.
The one I am looking at is an HSE so should come with all of that which is good. I enjoyed the ride height too which I was worried about coming from a d2 and I thought it would be more car like but it didn’t feel low at all.
 
The one I am looking at is an HSE so should come with all of that which is good. I enjoyed the ride height too which I was worried about coming from a d2 and I thought it would be more car like but it didn’t feel low at all.
Even the F1 isn't a 'low' vehicle.

When I get in a 'car', its like I'm sitting in a go cart from that perspective.

The driving position is great. Good visibility and comfortable.
 
Even the F1 isn't a 'low' vehicle.

When I get in a 'car', its like I'm sitting in a go cart from that perspective.

The driving position is great. Good visibility and comfortable.
I agree. I also feel quite a lot more vulnerable in a normal car not being able to see more of the road etc. i am not sure what the future is as there is nothing beyond the Fl2 or td5 in the LR that I would be happy with. Can’t imagine in 5-10 years buying a d5 or new defender.
 

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