FlatbedPilot · Nov 9, 2021

I'm not planning on moving the filter, although I think it can be done. It would be too much faff and require making new fuel lines. All of the fuel lines in a D2 are moulded plastic with self sealing joints. I don't want to have to re-engineer all of that.

Turboman · Nov 9, 2021

DefenderPilot said:
I'm not planning on moving the filter, although I think it can be done. It would be too much faff and require making new fuel lines. All of the fuel lines in a D2 are moulded plastic with self sealing joints. I don't want to have to re-engineer all of that.

Same on a Ninety. They are actually pretty easy to make. The plastic pipe is easy to cut, and there are little inserts to stiffen the pipe and brass olives to seal it behind the fitting.

But I agree, you would be best to leave it where it is.

Dave2302 · Nov 10, 2021

All I can say is Mercedes and every other diesel vehicle I work on has an electric Lift Pump in the Fuel Tank and a water trap Filter and most of these are mounted in the Engine bay

Agreed it would require new Fuel lines, but I'm prepared to do that when I get to new Chassis time

Just looking for a reason why it shouldn't be done

With a Lift Pump and Return Pipe system like the D2 has it will bleed itself with a couple of Ignition Cycles.

FlatbedPilot · Nov 10, 2021

I'd be interested in seeing what you do with yours Dave. I don't see any problem with moving the filter elswhere, although you'd need to carefully mark where each pipe goes to/from the filter as it's quite a complicated set up and it doesn't work if you connect any the wrong way. Don't ask me how I know. TD5s (both Defender and Discovery) have a bleed mode for if your fuel system becomes aerated. You just turn on the ignition and pump the throttle pedal from 0% - 100% five times in succession. This will cycle the fuel pump repeatedly to purge air (one of the connections on the filter is an air purge) until you stop it by turning off the ignition or starting the engine. While it's doing this the engine light will flash. You generally tell by the sound of the pump when all the air is bled, it'll get quieter.

Dave2302 · Nov 10, 2021

So ....

10P :-

15P :-

.... I now see why the Filter was mounted at the rear

Basically one would need to run 4 pipes front to rear to relocate it.
I agree with you, too much pain to relocate the existing system, but IMHO the whole chebang leaves a lot to be desired for various reasons, including being stuffed underneath exposed to all the road salt and crud etc etc

There has to be a better way to do this, I need to study this system more in depth

Most more modern set ups run circa 4 Bar pressure straight from Tank to Filter and then onwards to Engine Specifics, this one seems to run a primitive dual stage Pump to get the same effect, but way more pipework / unions, more potential for leaks, more potential Pump issues etc etc yak yak yak

FlatbedPilot · Nov 10, 2021

Tell me about it. I've had trouble with them on my old Defender and my current Disco. I think one of the reasons it's set up like this is to make changing the filter easy as it's easy to get to but the mixture of metals in the filter head means lots of galvanic corrosion. I don't think it would be too difficult to relocate to the inside of the chassis rail where it would get more protection but would still need new lines made up at least between the filter head and tank. I have a new filter head to go on mine when I do the chassis swap and I've bought a high quality alternative to OEM spec. When it's fitted I'm going to slap underseal all over everything to help keep the corrosion at bay. That and the new splash guard should make it last a decent amount of time.

Dave2302 · Nov 10, 2021

I now have a "spares" Auto Discovery 2, (basically it is fairly complete just minus Engine, a few Windows and Interior), I'm going to remove the Tank and then examine the Fuel Tank Pump / Sender unit to see if it will be straightforward enough to use a 4 Bar "in tank" Pump, and that way I can fit a regular type Filter Head in the Engine bay and just use a Feed from Tank To Filter, Pipe from Filter to FPR on Cylinder Head, then a Return Pipe from Fuel Cooler to Tank

That system would use a pair of 10mm Kunifer tubes with P Clips along the Chassis, and Flexi Hoses at each end .................. It would be self bleeding too, as the Filter has a bleed tube which can bleed back into the Return circuit north of the FPR / Cooler return wherever is most convenient ......................

I just think pumping the Fuel out to a Filter, then back in to the Tank before pumping it from another higher (but still comparitively low) pressure to the FPR is very very Heath-Robinson, creating un necessary potential for failure and hassles along it's merry way

IDK, will see if I got time when the time comes

I haven't ruled out a ground up build using a Galvy Chassis under the spares D2's Body and using an early L322 Rangey's BMW 6 pot Diesel and a hybrid bitza 4HP22 / 24 Auto mated to a regular D2 Transfer Box, hmmmmm more food for thought .................

Hicap phill · Nov 10, 2021

See what pressure the pump is putting out. we used a HP bullet style pump on a freelander engine. After removing the tank pump. Use a pressure regulator to get it down to requires pressure. Ran filter & water trap. & return from a swirl pot. This was in a race motor so cost was no option. Ran this for 3years no faults with the pump(bosh off a Ford injection system)
Pump etc by tank & pushed fuel full length of motor

Dave2302 · Nov 10, 2021

Thanks, yes that's kinda my plan

I've already done some digging, the TD5 runs on approx 4 Bar supply to the FPR on Cylinder Head, and a helluva lot of more modern CDI's have a single stage in tank pump that supplies the same ~ 4 bar. I don't think it's rocket science

FlatbedPilot · Nov 10, 2021

A little bit more progress today.
I've been making brackets for the rear light inner covers, which are made from the same rubber matting that I made the wheel arch splash guards with. All the brackets are aluminium angle. I have all sorts of metal bits stashed away in my man shed. I knew they'd come in handy one day. All fastenings are stainless steel. I've made the covers so you can just undo one bolt where they're attached to the bumper and lift them up to access the light bulb holders. Handily, they also fill in the space between the bottom of the lights and the bumper.

FlatbedPilot · Nov 10, 2021

As far as the fuel filter is concerned, I've been thinking about how it could be moved.

One idea:

Bypass the filter by connecting the LP outlet from the pump directly to the HP inlet. Position filter wherever you like. Run new line from HP outlet of pump to filter inlet. Run new line from filter outlet to FPR. Blank redundant ports on filter head or just install a simple 2 port filter.

I've no idea if this would work, it's just blue sky thinking. Maybe the filter helps cool the fuel between stages. Maybe it's not rated for full fuel pressure as it filters the fuel on the LP pass.

I do like to simplify things where I can but in this case I'll leave the fuel system as designed.

FlatbedPilot · Nov 10, 2021

Oh, and Dave, while you're completely re-engineering the fuel system you might as well get a custom aluminium tank. You can use whetever pump you like and just tailor the tank to suit. Sod the budget.

FlatbedPilot · Nov 11, 2021

It's been a while since we've had weather good enough to work outside so I've taken the opportunity to get some photos of the bed looking finished. It's not quite done yet though. I need to drill and tap all the fastenings for the bed panels and paint it but it's near enough to see what it looks like now. When I've done that I'm calling it done for now and will be turning my attention to the cab. Also a good opportunity to have a good sweep in the garage. I don't like working in a mess.

Dave2302 · Nov 12, 2021

Looking really nice now

Dave2302 · Nov 16, 2021

Members Vehicles / Projects section is a mess now with all those help threads

FlatbedPilot · Nov 16, 2021

Yeah, I noticed. Hopefully they'll sink again when they don't get any replies. The trouble with all forums, not just this one, is that no matter how big a sign you put up telling people to post in the right sections there will always be plenty of idiots who just ignore them or don't understand simple instructions. I'm pretty sure admins can move them but I wouldn't be surprised if they don't bother any more because they're sick of it.

jwrrc · Nov 21, 2021

Hippo is so good at posting "post it in ..." I think he's got a bot set up to do it!
It's a shame people can't use the right sections, I just caught up on quite a lot of your progress having missed it under all the rubbish.

Dave2302 · Nov 22, 2021

/\ /\ /\ That's why I bumped it

FlatbedPilot · Nov 22, 2021

I've not got a lot to report at the moment. I've been having some time off from it and getting on with other stuff that needs doing around the house. I'm having a ruthless sort out in the garage to make a bit of room for taking the Disco apart for the bodywork phase of the project. In a bit of good news I've finally got someone to do the welding for me but it will be in the new year.

FlatbedPilot · Dec 18, 2021

I'm still chipping away at lots of little jobs.

The body is about ready to come off. I've removed the doors and bonnet to make it lighter and also make it easier for access for the welding repairs. The only thing left to disconnect is the power steering pipes and hoses. I'll probably just cut them off as they're in a bit of a state and fit new ones. I had to cut the lower steering shaft in half to get that off as it was too corroded. I'll get a new one of those as well. Also removed the front and rear prop shafts. Refreshingly, they came out quite easily.

I've removed the fuel tank and cut the back three feet or so off the chassis to give myself some room in the garage as the bed takes up a lot of space when it's off. I've attached castors to the bed so I can move it around easily.

I've taken most of the interior out of the body, some of which needed doing anyway ready to lift it off the chassis. In doing this I found the gearbox cover plate has been severely butchered and there were only three rivets holding it in place. I've removed that as well so I can repair it and reshape the lip around the opening so that the cover plate can be put back in properly.

The plan now is to make some brackets to bolt to the body at the seatbelt mounting points. These will get some box section welded to them to cross brace the rear of the cab so it doesn't twist when it take it off.