From some research on an expedition thread.......

It reads.

This is a good thread and thought I would add my .02 to the thread. I admit, I am not an expert on Rover's. So I dont know the exacts of the vehicle line. But I have built roll cages for many, many different 4x4's in my 10 years as a professional fabricator. Some good points were brought up, but there are some myths.

The most common I hear is "weight". "It will alter my center of mass". For practical purposes,this more or less false. Here are some rough averages for a SUV type roll cage for the interior.

80 feet of tube at 1.75x.120 wall tube, 1.8 lbs a foot = 144 pounds.
Add in some plates, hardware, some misc tube work and mounts, call it 175 pounds that is spread out over the entire vehicle. It will not affect your balance or center of gravity. And this is on the heavy side of the questimate.

1.75 thick tube is kinda on the heavy duty side. You could build one out 1.5x.120 wall material, built well, (tight, easy gradual bends), it will take a pounding. I have had a few tested, so this is coming from real world observation. You could pick up some room inside and knock off 20-30 pounds.

Then, there is the outside, inside debate. No doubt the exterior cages are heavier as they require quite a bit more material. Maybe closer to 250, but again, it spread around the entire vehicle. Might notice it more, but it shouldn't affect your sense of balance. An interior cage should be treated as a one time insurance policy... cause chances are if you roll the 4x4, you will have pretty wicked damage to sheet metal and the windshield frame..which is a bugger to fix. But, you walk away and hopefully, structural damage is limited.

And Exo, can be handy. While bulky and a bit heavier, you can use them a few times. Built right, the are fantastic in protecting from the bumps and grinds of canyon walls, ledges, trees and yahoos in the parking lots. And if you roll, can cut done the damage considerable to the outside of the 4x4. Most cases, a cage can be rebuilt cheaper than repairing the body, door and windsheild frame.

This is a nice example that can be developed



Another example that has promise



I would want to take the cage uprights down to the chassis so there is more strength to it than just relying on the body.

That top one is the one I was thinking of on the d2. It has nice aesthetics, I think it's safety devices.

All cages are chassis mounted, the plates where it goes through the body are only bolted to fix the body to the cage also (slightly more strength, no rattling)

A cage bolted to the body would rip straight off.

It's gonna be mega when it's finished dude!

Mr Noisy said:

That top one is the one I was thinking of on the d2. It has nice aesthetics, I think it's safety devices.

All cages are chassis mounted, the plates where it goes through the body are only bolted to fix the body to the cage also (slightly more strength, no rattling)

A cage bolted to the body would rip straight off.

It's gonna be mega when it's finished dude!

Click to expand...

You're right the top one is Safety Devices. I didn't know that the cage bolted through the body there.mi am guessing that the internal support goes from that plate down the the floors an and then transfers to the chassis somehow.

I want something that will hug the contours of the body. Whilst the Disco is not fantastic looking, as each year goes by it improves and ha some nice curves mixed with sharp edges which I like.

Hopefully it will be good.

Hi Ian

Yes sometimes you basically cut a hole in the body and then feed the length of tube through til it reaches the plate, bolt the plate in and weld the tube to your chassis plate.

Depends how your cage is constructed but that's the basic idea.

Effectively it's a similar setup to an internal cage but it sits external where it matters.

You have a potential buyer here for a second one. If its drawn up on CAD then it's dead easy to bang more out

Mr Noisy said:

Hi Ian

Yes sometimes you basically cut a hole in the body and then feed the length of tube through til it reaches the plate, bolt the plate in and weld the tube to your chassis plate.

Depends how your cage is constructed but that's the basic idea.

Effectively it's a similar setup to an internal cage but it sits external where it matters.

You have a potential buyer here for a second one. If its drawn up on CAD then it's dead easy to bang more out

Click to expand...

Well hopefully I will do that. I plan to model the front bumper in 3d software so I can just bang out the fabrication drawings easily. Then i have to do the rear bumper and tree sliders and then I can have a go at the cage.

So this weekend I had another go at the blooming brakes. Now before I start, I must make you aware that I believe the master cylinder may be the issue so in the back of my head I am thinking I must replace that.

So I connected up the ezibleed and had 18psi on the system, at least the old bald tyre in the garden finally found a use

I cracked open each of the pipes from the master cylinder then bled each of the calipers in turn. Afterwards the pressure at the pedal, engine off, was there. The pedal pumped up nicely and didn't slowly fall to the floor. As soon as I started the car the pedal slowly fell along with my heart bugger.

So anyway the pedal does seem better so I am thinking that the next thing to do would be to replace all the bleed nipples. I can't undo the rear ones on both sides so am bleeding through the pipe and I cant undo the inner ones to the front calipers so there may still be air around the inside pistons on each of the four calipers.

So the question is, if there is still air in the system, will it cause the pedal to slowly fall to the floor?

On another note I have all the electrical system working and it's all ready for the MOT. However the near side reversing light won't work. When I take the bulb holder out I check the holder and the bulb and all is fine. I test voltage at the light unit where the bulb goes in and there is voltage. However when I put the bulb holder in the light, it doesn't work and the voltage to that particular bulb holder disappears. Ummmmmm

no, it would cause sponginess, a sinking pedal is due to a leak of some sort, whether it be master cylinder or elsewhere

discomark10 said:

no, it would cause sponginess, a sinking pedal is due to a leak of some sort, whether it be master cylinder or elsewhere

Click to expand...

Well everywhere is dry so it must be pressure leaking out of the master cylinder somehow. I don't even pretend to know how a mc works so a new one will be ordered. Are they hard to fit do you know?

ive replaced one on a saxo, quite simple.. ide imagine there very similar

shame your not near me , i have a master cylinder in my garage. it sure looks like thats the problem. its not ideal how your bleeding the rear end thou.

You need to get them nipples out Ian. Are you using a 7/16" single hex deep flank drive socket on them? Much better than a spanner!

have u given them a some encouragement?

Agreed you have to get the nipples oot and bleed the front correct too normally air cause spongy pedal but can cause this if there is a fair bit of air dont replace the m.c untill you have it bleed correct doing it buy the pipe will leave air in there without doubt on any caliper
Looks the fooking baws though well done

You might find that the pedal is hard until you start the engine cos the vacuum assistance then provides extra force to keep compressing the air in the calipers. Perhaps.

Encouragement is definitely required, then bleed up properly.

I'm very surprised you can't get them out Ian, bleed nipples are sturdy enough to be given a fairly hard time, not like a brake pipe which will snap if it wants to, a nipple can be told who's boss and will usually give in.

Correct fitting 6 sided socket is a must.

Please report back with progress

Regarding the brakes, I agree with the above posts. I would add that I hate using easy bleeders of any kind. The only sure method of bleeding brakes is one at a time, furthest point first with one person pressing the pedal and one operating the bleed nipple and checking and topping the master cylinder up ( or get a passing street urchin to do the topping up)
The pedal operator should use firm, slow strokes (ooh err) all the way from top of travel to bulkhead each time (10 times at least) and finish with the pedal pressed whilst the nipple operator closes the nipple. the pedal should then be raised with the nipple shut and depressed once more (slowly) the nipple operator should then close the nipple, disconnect the bleed bottle, clean all traces of brake fluid with proper brake cleaner then ask the pedal operator to press the pedal as hard as they can so that the nipple, caliper and associated pipework can be checked for leaks. then do the remaining nipples. The nipple operator controls the situation and tells the brake operator what to do.

sidewaysste said:

Regarding the brakes, I agree with the above posts. I would add that I hate using easy bleeders of any kind. The only sure method of bleeding brakes is one at a time, furthest point first with one person pressing the pedal and one operating the bleed nipple and checking and topping the master cylinder up ( or get a passing street urchin to do the topping up)
The pedal operator should use firm, slow strokes (ooh err) all the way from top of travel to bulkhead each time (10 times at least) and finish with the pedal pressed whilst the nipple operator closes the nipple. the pedal should then be raised with the nipple shut and depressed once more (slowly) the nipple operator should then close the nipple, disconnect the bleed bottle, clean all traces of brake fluid with proper brake cleaner then ask the pedal operator to press the pedal as hard as they can so that the nipple, caliper and associated pipework can be checked for leaks. then do the remaining nipples. The nipple operator controls the situation and tells the brake operator what to do.

Click to expand...

Yup thats the way

sidewaysste said:

Regarding the brakes, I agree with the above posts. I would add that I hate using easy bleeders of any kind. The only sure method of bleeding brakes is one at a time, furthest point first with one person pressing the pedal and one operating the bleed nipple and checking and topping the master cylinder up ( or get a passing street urchin to do the topping up)
The pedal operator should use firm, slow strokes (ooh err) all the way from top of travel to bulkhead each time (10 times at least) and finish with the pedal pressed whilst the nipple operator closes the nipple. the pedal should then be raised with the nipple shut and depressed once more (slowly) the nipple operator should then close the nipple, disconnect the bleed bottle, clean all traces of brake fluid with proper brake cleaner then ask the pedal operator to press the pedal as hard as they can so that the nipple, caliper and associated pipework can be checked for leaks. then do the remaining nipples. The nipple operator controls the situation and tells the brake operator what to do.

Click to expand...

Thats the way I do it.

just had a problem at work with a etype rebuild, all new brake system every part new , turned out it was a faulty new servo.... same sort of problem as this.

Hi All,

Thank you soo much for all your advice and comments. I have ordered some new nipples (Ohh Err Missus) and will get out there and hammer the **** out of the old ones.

Unfortunately the previous urchin has rounded some of them off so unless a good set of mole grips can grab them I am a little buggered. I dont fancy drilling them out.

I will post progress as and when it happend this week!!

Thanks Again.

PS
Now that I have had the old girl down the road she is sitting evr so slightly arse down. I can only imagine this is due to no bumper and winch on the front. I do know the springs are correct as I checked them three times!!! Does this seem normal?

Cheers