SpudH
Well-Known Member
Get The faults read this time and let us know. Don't commit to buying any parts till you've got a few opinions here.
3 days in is too early to judge how well you'll take to p38 ownership or whether you've bought a lemon or just a P38 looking for a bit of love and attention.
I bought my diags after 4 months of ownership but I knew by then I was in it for the long haul and it was the best thing I did. But I wouldn't be recommending anyone to do it right off the bat. To get on with a P38 you have to be willing to roll your sleeves up and Diagnostics represent a significant investment that might not add much value to the car if you decide you've had enough and flip it.
In the event that you do decide to invest then just start at the top of this thread and it will tell you everything you need to know.
3 days in is too early to judge how well you'll take to p38 ownership or whether you've bought a lemon or just a P38 looking for a bit of love and attention.
I bought my diags after 4 months of ownership but I knew by then I was in it for the long haul and it was the best thing I did. But I wouldn't be recommending anyone to do it right off the bat. To get on with a P38 you have to be willing to roll your sleeves up and Diagnostics represent a significant investment that might not add much value to the car if you decide you've had enough and flip it.
In the event that you do decide to invest then just start at the top of this thread and it will tell you everything you need to know.
tonymccandless
New Member
Thanks Spud
To be clear the Rangie is here to stay. My Jeep is going back at the end of lease in 8 weeks so the next few weeks are about getting the Rangie in order and drivable for the other half.
I am happy to have something a bit more involved having been into bikes for 25 yrs and able to flip an engine in an afternoon. Bottom line is that the balance of moving from an 06 shiny car to the P38 is pay less, get hold of something with a bit of character and be prepared to learn and pay out for things that are going to go wrong in a 13 yr old car.
Good advice tho around will I feel the same way in 4 months ?
To be clear the Rangie is here to stay. My Jeep is going back at the end of lease in 8 weeks so the next few weeks are about getting the Rangie in order and drivable for the other half.
I am happy to have something a bit more involved having been into bikes for 25 yrs and able to flip an engine in an afternoon. Bottom line is that the balance of moving from an 06 shiny car to the P38 is pay less, get hold of something with a bit of character and be prepared to learn and pay out for things that are going to go wrong in a 13 yr old car.
Good advice tho around will I feel the same way in 4 months ?
SpudH
Well-Known Member
Well it'll certainly open your wallet for you!!
At least you've come to P38 ownership with your eyes open and an appropriate level of expectation. And the fact that you're already thinking diags means that you are mentally prepared for this, welcome to the fold
I hope P38 ownership proves to be as rewarding for you as it is for many of us here.
There are only a few things that will leave you stuck on the side of the road and you can prempt most of these.
Get your EKA code from a dealer ASAP. If you ever get caught with an RF receiver/alarm problem you'll need this.
Get a decent new battery, these things need their juice.
You're going to need something for the air suspension. Get either the cable and free EAS software if you can leave a laptop in the car or one of the excellent EAS kicker/lite/buddy for the EAS. Alternatively follow through with your full diags purchase which with your current thinking would be even better. But at the very minimum get the free stuff while you make up your mind.
Start saving for new suspension airbags, at 13 years old its probably due a second set.
After that you can take your pick but they're the real killers, almost everything else is just annoying but won't leave you stranded.
Derek Ward
Active Member
Good advice Spud. The only time I've been stuck was due to a burst air bag and the associated hard fault that followed. The bags were preventable and repaired pretty quickly but Range Rover diagnostics in Dunoon non existent. Mr Wilsons software and lead is a bare minimum required.
Welcome to the forum Tony. Good to see someone else as barmy as me with a boxster and a P38.......
Welcome to the forum Tony. Good to see someone else as barmy as me with a boxster and a P38.......
Thanks for your much appreciated comments Tonymccandless
A also hope that my presence and interaction with members of this board ultimately results in mutual benefits for everyone.
I personally believe that most dealerships now could not care less about the P38 Model, and really do not want to know. As such having your own personal diagnostic equipment for it, is now more important than ever and starting to become a considerable pre requisite to any long term ownership.
The P38 is quite a technologically advanced vehcle, however whether you end up regarding that technology as working for you or against you, really depends on if you have the equipment to communicate with it and control it.
A also hope that my presence and interaction with members of this board ultimately results in mutual benefits for everyone.
I personally believe that most dealerships now could not care less about the P38 Model, and really do not want to know. As such having your own personal diagnostic equipment for it, is now more important than ever and starting to become a considerable pre requisite to any long term ownership.
The P38 is quite a technologically advanced vehcle, however whether you end up regarding that technology as working for you or against you, really depends on if you have the equipment to communicate with it and control it.
spadgr
Active Member
Still following this thread and still tossing up with the thoughts of buying an obd setup from bbs. Am interested to know, does the bbs thingy actually fix things, or just diagnose the fault, or both? ie, my rangey does a few flowery gear shifts and i am thinking its possibly the tps (throttle position sensor, in case it has a different name in the uk). If so do i have to physically adjust the tps or can it be done electronically with the bbs setup. Hope you understand what i'm getting at.
Irishrover
Well-Known Member
I wish it would replace blend motors when they pack up !!!
If the fault is a stored problem inside an ECU, it will clear the fault. If however, it's a "Hard" fault, let's say a shot electric motor or sensor, it obviously cannot fix the problem, the diagnostics will just log the fault again until it's fixed.
The kit does not come with a robot complete with a comprehensive tool kit and tub of Swarfega
:hysterically_laughi
If the fault is a stored problem inside an ECU, it will clear the fault. If however, it's a "Hard" fault, let's say a shot electric motor or sensor, it obviously cannot fix the problem, the diagnostics will just log the fault again until it's fixed.
The kit does not come with a robot complete with a comprehensive tool kit and tub of Swarfega
:hysterically_laughi
At the price, it should come with two weeks in Cyprus every year for life with spending money.
Just the 2 weeks wammers
Don't worry Spadgr, i think i understand what you are getting at.
Many have heard about diagnostic equipment and will appreciate that it can read and clear faults, but i guess you probably like many others want to know more of the nitty gritty of how that helps in real life situations and what else it does that can help in the fixing of any possible faults.
I hope i can oblige.
It's a bit of an open subject, as it really depends upon the nature of a fault, but i will try to take you through a few of the more regular real world scenereos.
In many cases faults can be stored where there is no true physical fault, due to a system wobbly or through temporary disconnection of something while working on the car. In some cases this can take a vehicle system off line.
These simply require the clearing of the fault code memory.
Next up is where a fault is caused due to a poor connection (possibly corrosion) somewhere or a faulty sensor or motor / actuator such as Irishrover describes. If the fault is permanent it will re log straight away and if intermittent it will still come back. It needs a human to physically find the cause and fix it. In many cases just the fault text itself is enough of an aid. IE Open circuit water temperature sensor (intermittent), could be an iffy sensor, faulty wiring or a corroded connector and with enough effort and checking and metering it is possible to find the fault.
However in trying to locate such a fault, the ability to see the actual value returned from the sensor in real time can be really helpful, as you can watch it while you wiggle connectors and wiring etc. In some cases monitoring the live data is the only way to see whats going wrong. We also provide a couple of capturing facilities such that data can be retro analysed or saved for later comparison.
Outputs can also be very handy. Suppose you have an electric window not working. The first question is, is it the switch (Input) or the motor (output) side. By conventional means you would have to pick between pulling the door or the switch pack apart. Sods law dictating you get it wrong most times. However on the BeCM you can see if the ECU is seeing the switch input or not and you can force the BeCM to directly drive the window to see if it works regardless of the switch input. There are near 100 inputs and outputs on the Becm alone.
In the specific case you mention (TPS) you cannot check it or physically adjust it any other way than with a manufacturer dedicated diagnostic system with live data values such as ours. In fact as far as i know, for this there is no other equipment availiable that provides this without costing 10 times more.
For anyone wanting to see exactly what capabilities are provided by our equipment on any system, we quite proudly publish this on line. (I say proudly because so many with much lesser capabilities just gloss over the important detail). If you go to our web shop, select MSV-2, then software and finally multi vehicle, you will get a long list of all the ECU's our system can cover. scroll down to the ECU of interest, In your case i am assuming EDC as the engine management of the 98 DSE you list in your profile. Then click on the more information button.
For the EDC, this will give you this page
https://www.blackbox-solutions.com/shop/help/SM007.html
If you scroll down to inputs, you will see that there are 3 pages of them, The one you are interested in is in the General section and reads
Armed with this information and the equipment with the capability to show you what values you are getting from your Throttle position sensor you can check it and physically adjust it to get the right values if needed.
No doubt you will also note the many other elements that can be checked on this system alone and in fact i have hardly scratched the surface on what is truly possible with our system and as any owner will testify, to attempt to do so would be a truly monumental task.
Don't worry Spadgr, i think i understand what you are getting at.
Many have heard about diagnostic equipment and will appreciate that it can read and clear faults, but i guess you probably like many others want to know more of the nitty gritty of how that helps in real life situations and what else it does that can help in the fixing of any possible faults.
I hope i can oblige.
It's a bit of an open subject, as it really depends upon the nature of a fault, but i will try to take you through a few of the more regular real world scenereos.
In many cases faults can be stored where there is no true physical fault, due to a system wobbly or through temporary disconnection of something while working on the car. In some cases this can take a vehicle system off line.
These simply require the clearing of the fault code memory.
Next up is where a fault is caused due to a poor connection (possibly corrosion) somewhere or a faulty sensor or motor / actuator such as Irishrover describes. If the fault is permanent it will re log straight away and if intermittent it will still come back. It needs a human to physically find the cause and fix it. In many cases just the fault text itself is enough of an aid. IE Open circuit water temperature sensor (intermittent), could be an iffy sensor, faulty wiring or a corroded connector and with enough effort and checking and metering it is possible to find the fault.
However in trying to locate such a fault, the ability to see the actual value returned from the sensor in real time can be really helpful, as you can watch it while you wiggle connectors and wiring etc. In some cases monitoring the live data is the only way to see whats going wrong. We also provide a couple of capturing facilities such that data can be retro analysed or saved for later comparison.
Outputs can also be very handy. Suppose you have an electric window not working. The first question is, is it the switch (Input) or the motor (output) side. By conventional means you would have to pick between pulling the door or the switch pack apart. Sods law dictating you get it wrong most times. However on the BeCM you can see if the ECU is seeing the switch input or not and you can force the BeCM to directly drive the window to see if it works regardless of the switch input. There are near 100 inputs and outputs on the Becm alone.
In the specific case you mention (TPS) you cannot check it or physically adjust it any other way than with a manufacturer dedicated diagnostic system with live data values such as ours. In fact as far as i know, for this there is no other equipment availiable that provides this without costing 10 times more.
For anyone wanting to see exactly what capabilities are provided by our equipment on any system, we quite proudly publish this on line. (I say proudly because so many with much lesser capabilities just gloss over the important detail). If you go to our web shop, select MSV-2, then software and finally multi vehicle, you will get a long list of all the ECU's our system can cover. scroll down to the ECU of interest, In your case i am assuming EDC as the engine management of the 98 DSE you list in your profile. Then click on the more information button.
For the EDC, this will give you this page
https://www.blackbox-solutions.com/shop/help/SM007.html
If you scroll down to inputs, you will see that there are 3 pages of them, The one you are interested in is in the General section and reads
Armed with this information and the equipment with the capability to show you what values you are getting from your Throttle position sensor you can check it and physically adjust it to get the right values if needed.
No doubt you will also note the many other elements that can be checked on this system alone and in fact i have hardly scratched the surface on what is truly possible with our system and as any owner will testify, to attempt to do so would be a truly monumental task.
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Irishrover
Well-Known Member
Ther's a lot of talking on this thread, but depit all that, no.one seems to have the commitment to put their money where their mouth is despite all the reccomendations from not only this site but the web also. Is it just a case of "Window shopping" I ask myself. You won't know until you get your next problem or hope that someone comes up with a free full diagnostic solution/system for the P38. Keep on wishing & waiting guys/gals...there is no such thing as a free lunch.
:behindsofa:
:behindsofa:
woogoo
New Member
I had intended to buy my kit this week but my MOT's due on Friday, so the outcome of that will really decide if I buy or not, it won't pass as I have a fuel leak, but there may be other stuff thats needed. So if the repair bill is in the silly league then I'll be selling it as a project.
On the other hand if all is well and things are sensible I'll be buying. Once I work out what I actually need, as I'm kind of confused. If I buy a P38 'kit' is that ALL I need or is there anything else?
On the other hand if all is well and things are sensible I'll be buying. Once I work out what I actually need, as I'm kind of confused. If I buy a P38 'kit' is that ALL I need or is there anything else?
Irishrover
Well-Known Member
Hi Woogoo...you obviously need the hardware, cables etc. then the choice is yours regarding software.
Basic cables..available from various sources are:
Null Modem cable (Female ends) approx. 3-4 mtrs long
USB-Serial adapter if your PC does not have a serial port
Cables from BBS:
OBDII to vehicle server cable
12V adaptor lead to power Server externally...for downloading software updates etc. from BBS website.
Basic cables..available from various sources are:
Null Modem cable (Female ends) approx. 3-4 mtrs long
USB-Serial adapter if your PC does not have a serial port
Cables from BBS:
OBDII to vehicle server cable
12V adaptor lead to power Server externally...for downloading software updates etc. from BBS website.
Derek Ward
Active Member
When you order stuff from BBS, make sure you get all you want at the same time. Extra cables etc later are cheap themselves but the postage tends to be a little on the high side from Cyprus - a four quid cable can end up costing you twenty. The Faultmate extreme is a bloody good piece of kit though.
tonymccandless
New Member
Hi folks
Been absent for a bit due to work and the fact the toy is still in the eng shop. No major indicators of any wallet destroying issues YET but Lambda senor may have gone and the fuelling needs adjustment which I knew from talking to Mark Adams around the Tornado chip thang.
Some great input above which is really appreciated and Spud the airbags were replaced in December. Having looked at enough nails in the process of getting this one the engine and the airbags were first 2 questions.
BBS guy it certainly sounds as if the kit you guys sell is the way ahead. First off is getting the toy back then seeing how the first visit to the eng shop has impacted wallet and how she runs then move onto stage 2 of education and equipping to deal with as much as possible myself.
One hilarious impact is that I have ordered a shed....how can that be connected other than to keep the Rangie/Shed company ?
Well I have gardening gear in the double garage which currently also has a spare set of RR wheels, the exhaust just taken off and, I suspect, will soon need to provide shelter for me to work on the car as well as a shelf or two of spares hence get a shed to move gardeneing gear into. Seemed logical to me....
Been absent for a bit due to work and the fact the toy is still in the eng shop. No major indicators of any wallet destroying issues YET but Lambda senor may have gone and the fuelling needs adjustment which I knew from talking to Mark Adams around the Tornado chip thang.
Some great input above which is really appreciated and Spud the airbags were replaced in December. Having looked at enough nails in the process of getting this one the engine and the airbags were first 2 questions.
BBS guy it certainly sounds as if the kit you guys sell is the way ahead. First off is getting the toy back then seeing how the first visit to the eng shop has impacted wallet and how she runs then move onto stage 2 of education and equipping to deal with as much as possible myself.
One hilarious impact is that I have ordered a shed....how can that be connected other than to keep the Rangie/Shed company ?
Well I have gardening gear in the double garage which currently also has a spare set of RR wheels, the exhaust just taken off and, I suspect, will soon need to provide shelter for me to work on the car as well as a shelf or two of spares hence get a shed to move gardeneing gear into. Seemed logical to me....
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woogoo
New Member
Ah well this is the problem, I assume I need the software over and above the hardware so I can actually use the hardware.
See, what's confusing me is the use of the work kit, to me it implies that I get everything that I need, if I don't then with all due respect BBS Guy, it's not a kit more of a basic starting pack.
Got these already.
Well if these two cables aren't in the kit it kind of strengthens my argument about the terminolgy used. I'm not trying to start a bun fight here I'm only saying what I see.
Irish -
what do you mean by Nul Modem (female ends) - normally null modem cables are male to male?
what do you mean by "vehicle server"?
Irishrover
Well-Known Member
Null modem cables come in two types..with either male or female ends.
The Server is another name for the Faultmate or Rovacomlite unit.
The unit has a port on one end with male pins and the RS232 (Serial port) on the laptop/PC or the USB to Serial adaptor lead also has male pins, hence the need for a female plug ended null modem cable.
The other end of the Server has a 15 pin male connector for connection to the OBDII lead.
There is also a 12VDC external socket on the Server which is used to power the unit up from an external power supply, battery or mains to 12VDC adapter, when you wish to download software updates from the BBS site, say in the comfort of your armchair. From memory, I think this is either 5mm or 5.5mm dia. standard round plug with a single centre pin like a Nokia phone charger plug, but larger...readily available from Maplins etc.
Of course all the leads are available from the BBS site, but from experience I found that the longer Null modem cable allows me to work away from the car, which is useful especially when checking EAS heights etc.
The Server is by the way, powered via the OBDII socket when plugged into the car as the socket has it's own 12V permanent supply.
Hope this helps.
The Server is another name for the Faultmate or Rovacomlite unit.
The unit has a port on one end with male pins and the RS232 (Serial port) on the laptop/PC or the USB to Serial adaptor lead also has male pins, hence the need for a female plug ended null modem cable.
The other end of the Server has a 15 pin male connector for connection to the OBDII lead.
There is also a 12VDC external socket on the Server which is used to power the unit up from an external power supply, battery or mains to 12VDC adapter, when you wish to download software updates from the BBS site, say in the comfort of your armchair. From memory, I think this is either 5mm or 5.5mm dia. standard round plug with a single centre pin like a Nokia phone charger plug, but larger...readily available from Maplins etc.
Of course all the leads are available from the BBS site, but from experience I found that the longer Null modem cable allows me to work away from the car, which is useful especially when checking EAS heights etc.
The Server is by the way, powered via the OBDII socket when plugged into the car as the socket has it's own 12V permanent supply.
Hope this helps.
Ah! I was thinking of network null-modem cables
can yu post or pm me pics please Irish?
can yu post or pm me pics please Irish?
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