Pikey
Dummy Ejection Facilitator..
I think you've got muddled between what you can tow without the +E entitlement; and whether the MAM of a trailer can exceed the vehicle towing capacity.
G-man
BBQ king
Bloody hell, doesn't make you feel old when people mention grandfather rights
i am missed them by 3 years
still i was 6 when you started driving lorries
Pikey
Dummy Ejection Facilitator..
the rules from DVLA site.. here Towing trailers or caravans with vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes : Directgov - Motoring
Category B: Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM and with up to eight passenger seats
Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.
For example:
* a vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.25 tonnes could be driven by the holder of a category B entitlement. This is because the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and also the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle
Whereas
* the same vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes when coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.5 tonnes would fall within category B+E. This is because although the combined weight of the vehicle and trailer is within the 3.5 tonnes MAM limit, the MAM of the trailer is more than the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle
* Vehicle manufacturers normally recommend a maximum weight of trailer appropriate to their vehicle. Details can usually be found in the vehicle's handbook or obtained from car dealerships. The size of the trailer recommended for an average family car with an unladen weight of around 1 tonne would be well within the new category B threshold.
Category B: Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM and with up to eight passenger seats
Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.
For example:
* a vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.25 tonnes could be driven by the holder of a category B entitlement. This is because the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and also the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle
Whereas
* the same vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes when coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.5 tonnes would fall within category B+E. This is because although the combined weight of the vehicle and trailer is within the 3.5 tonnes MAM limit, the MAM of the trailer is more than the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle
* Vehicle manufacturers normally recommend a maximum weight of trailer appropriate to their vehicle. Details can usually be found in the vehicle's handbook or obtained from car dealerships. The size of the trailer recommended for an average family car with an unladen weight of around 1 tonne would be well within the new category B threshold.
Ian was talking about something else though....
Pikey
Dummy Ejection Facilitator..
Nope the thread is about what "Junior" drivers can tow before they've taken the trailer test.
and for those peeps the MAM of the trailer can NOT exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle.
It went off topic
Pikey
Dummy Ejection Facilitator..
He's right though it is the MAM of the trailer that counts if a vehicle is plated to tow 2tonnes then it can't tow a trailed plated to 2001kg or higher empty or not.. It is always the MAM of the towing vehicle and trailer that are counted regardless of actual weight. carried/towed
Which legislation does this come under? Ian was asked to provide it and couldn't....can you?
Nope, the offence of overloading is based on actual weight, not plated weight. For example, if you have a car which can tow 2000kg, a trailer plated to 2000kg MAM, but overloaded it to 2500kg, its an offence, even though the weight plates say all ok. If there's another additional offence based on the plated weights....what is it?
Pikey
Dummy Ejection Facilitator..
Most caravans when fully loaded will be over 750 kg. This limit can be exceeded without taking a B+E test under some circumstances: The gross laden weight / MAM of a trailer can be upto the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, up to a maximum of 3500 kg in total for the combination. e.g. Land Rover Defender 90 has an unladen weight of 1740kg and therefore you might think you would be able to tow a trailer with a MAM of 1740kg, but beware that the load capacity of the Land Rover, over 20kg, would put you over the 3500kg MAM for the combination! So as the MAM of the Land Rover is 2400kg you can only tow a trailer with a MAM of 1100kg (If your trailer has a MAM above 1100kg but only weighs 1100kg because it is not fully loaded it would still require a B+E licence). If you had a Land Rover Freelander weighing 1640kg unladen, with a 2060kg MAM then your trailer could have up to a 1440kg MAM and would not exceed the 3500kg MAM for the combination and therefore only a category B licience is required (If your trailer has a MAM above 1440kg but only weighs 1440kg because it is not fully loaded it would still require a B+E licence). e.g. If you have a trailer with a 1400kg MAM you could tow it with a Land Rover Freelander (1640kg unladen / 2060kg MAM) without B+E, but the same trailer would need B+E to be towed by a Seat Ibiza, and the actual load towed would be less as the Seat Ibiza towing capacity is only 1200kg. If your trailer is below 750 kg MAM it can be towed by a vehicle up to 3500 kg making a total train weight of 4250 kg.* The best way to check is take whatever you are towing with to your local public weighbridge and get its unladen weight. When you know the unladen weight and MAM of the towing vehicle & the MAM of the trailer/caravan and the combination, you can work out if a B+E licience is required. You can find the MAM from the manufacturers handbook / plate. Also check the manufacturers plate to be sure none of the axle/nose weights or MAM for any trailer are exceeded.
Taken from here Driving Licence Category / Vehicle Information: Car & trailer, B+E; tractors, F / agricultural vehicles & HGV / LGV; C,C+E.
Pikey
Dummy Ejection Facilitator..
So are you saying that once you've passed the trailer test the law regarding MAM no longer applies?? and a landrover can tow a trailer weighing 3500kg even if the MAM of the trailer is 32tonnes
What law regarding MAM??? (There's several - please clarify)
LR is a bad example because its max towing capacity, 3500kg, coincides with the max for overrun brakes, ball coupling, no requirement for trailer ABS and a bunch of other regulations.
Taking a smaller car as an example, say one with a 1300kg towing capacity - yes you can tow a 3500kg MAM trailer, so long as its unladen or only partly loaded up to the 1300kg limit.
Basically, licence restrictions use plated weights, overloading rules relate to actual weights. You pass the +E and the licence restriction is much higher.
Pikey
Dummy Ejection Facilitator..
That's strange because every thing I'm reading says it's the MAM of the trailer and it must not exceed the towing limit set by the car manufacturer. National trailer association various Horsey forums and organisations all the caravan forums even the Ivor Williams website. are all saying MAM of trailer must not exceed the plated weight of the towing vehicle.
Headtester
Active Member
There's a bit more info here from the EC 2nd Directive, Link, there's currently no limit on the weight of the trailer otherthan that imposed by the vehicle manufacturer
And here for the 3rd Directive when there will be an upper weight limit for B+E of 3.5 tonnes for the trailer Link
It's a lot of gobbledegook though
And here for the 3rd Directive when there will be an upper weight limit for B+E of 3.5 tonnes for the trailer Link
It's a lot of gobbledegook though
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There's a lot of misinformation out there on the internet.....
Can't really trust a forum for proper legal info, unless they're linking to an official website of some kind.
Caravans have a small payload anyway, most of the weight is their own bodywork, so the issue rarely arises on them. Plant and car transporter trailers are where it normally occurs.
NTTA - unsure why they're giving out that kind of advice - do they link to anything official?
Ivor Williams are only too happy to SELL a trailer plate to their customers, based on the fear/misinformation of this issue. How much does it cost to buy the amended weight plate off them?
