ukadamwest · May 29, 2015

If diesel P38s cost more than petrol versions year for year they are obviously regarded as more desirable or they would be cheaper.

However, despite the promotion of diesel under Gormless Clown they became more desireable due to the taxation structure to promote their sales.

Labour made 'wrong decision' over diesel car tax, admits shadow minister - Telegraph

however, due to the EU commitment to carbon emissions, diesel is a problem. while the government has held off on additional tax on diesel, prior to the GE.. they wont forever....

Diesel car drivers 'betrayed' as EU cracks down on Britain over air pollution - Telegraph

'Simply unacceptable' road tax charges to hit diesel drivers due to EU rules | UK | News | Daily Express

with some cities looking to place additional taxes on diesel cars already..

Islington Council's £96-a-year diesel tax on the cars it encouraged people to buy | This is Money

tomcat59alan · May 29, 2015

ukadamwest said:
However, despite the promotion of diesel under Gormless Clown they became more desireable due to the taxation structure to promote their sales.

Labour made 'wrong decision' over diesel car tax, admits shadow minister - Telegraph

however, due to the EU commitment to carbon emissions, diesel is a problem. while the government has held off on additional tax on diesel, prior to the GE.. they wont forever....

Diesel car drivers 'betrayed' as EU cracks down on Britain over air pollution - Telegraph

'Simply unacceptable' road tax charges to hit diesel drivers due to EU rules | UK | News | Daily Express

with some cities looking to place additional taxes on diesel cars already..

Islington Council's £96-a-year diesel tax on the cars it encouraged people to buy | This is Money

And we all know about Islington Council don't we? Air pollution? how come the government still tax smoking when it cost's the NHS millions, they know what side their bread is buttered. Ban it, make smoking illegal before they start taxing diesel vehicles. Rant over

ukadamwest · May 29, 2015

TCA.. you expect joined up thinking from government ? (of any LibLabCon stripe)

However, i understand your point about about smoking.. though where does the line get drawn.. obesity costs the NHS billions, tax food ? and so on and so on.. What about people who get injured in taking part in sport.. tax sport ??

What about people who have congenital health problems.. tax them if they have children and so and so on..

xs2man · May 29, 2015

Obviously this is going off topic here, but I will butt in on that point. Smoking MAKES money for the government. FAR more than it COSTS the NHS.

From ASH's own literature...

The cost to the NHS of treating diseases caused by smoking in England which is approximately £2 billion a year

Of course, England is only around what? 80-85% of the UK? So add another 15% onto that 2 billion, so £2.6 billion a year?

It then goes on to say...

The Treasury received £9.5 billion in revenue from tobacco duties in the Financial year 2013- 2014 (excluding VAT). This amounts to about 2% of total Government revenue. Including VAT, total tobacco revenue is around £12.3bn annually.

The government simply couldn't afford to ban smoking with a net tax take of that magnitude (roughly £10 billion in profit from smokers there, over 10% of the TOTAL NHS budget). Coupled with the fact that smokers, on average, die 5 years earlier, that's a lot less pension to pay out, and quicker freeing up of housing stock / care home places.

Smokers aren't a drain on the NHS. Without them, there would be NO NHS...

And food is taxed. It's called VAT. These obese people who eat / drink more, are already paying in advance for their NHS treatment.

Anyway, that's all away from the point. And it's not even like I'm a smoker anymore.

V8's are better than diesels

...

StuckAgainSteve · May 29, 2015

Diesels were more reliable than petrols for a few reasons:-

Diesel fuel is a lubricant - so top end wear is reduced compared to petrol - particularly which when running rich (cold start) which washes oil off the bores and valve stems. Modern fuel injection goes some way to countering that issue but doesn't eliminate it.

Diesel engines usually have a governor and even if they didn't, they are hard to over-rev simply because diesel burns too slowly to allow the engine to over-rev easily. Petrol cars only generally got rev limiters with the introduction of modern FI systems.

But with modern diesels and all the emissions crap to go wrong plus the ultra high pressure DI FI systems - it's only a matter of time before you're hit with a silly ££££ bill. At least the P38's diesel is one of the last reliable types with low tech FI and no DPF. Today's diesels will become a secondhand liability. In the future secondhand petrol cars will be worth more as a simple repair on a any modern diesel will write the car off financially.

wammers · May 29, 2015

xs2man said:
Obviously this is going off topic here, but I will butt in on that point. Smoking MAKES money for the government. FAR more than it COSTS the NHS.

From ASH's own literature...

Of course, England is only around what? 80-85% of the UK? So add another 15% onto that 2 billion, so £2.6 billion a year?

It then goes on to say...

The government simply couldn't afford to ban smoking with a net tax take of that magnitude (roughly £10 billion in profit from smokers there, over 10% of the TOTAL NHS budget). Coupled with the fact that smokers, on average, die 5 years earlier, that's a lot less pension to pay out, and quicker freeing up of housing stock / care home places.

Smokers aren't a drain on the NHS. Without them, there would be NO NHS...

And food is taxed. It's called VAT. These obese people who eat / drink more, are already paying in advance for their NHS treatment.

Anyway, that's all away from the point. And it's not even like I'm a smoker anymore.

V8's are better than diesels ...

Apart from the ridiculous comment about V8s i totally agree with you.

martynv8 · May 29, 2015

wammers said:
No engine is faultless. It is just that some are less prone to faults than others. Diesels in general are less prone to faults than petrol engines. That is a simple fact of life. Or at least it is if you have been involved with engines both petrol and diesel for over fifty years. My P38 diesel is anything but slow. I can't think of a reason with todays speed restrictions and roads you would want a quicker motor. If diesel P38s cost more than petrol versions year for year they are obviously regarded as more desirable or they would be cheaper.

Diesel P38s generally sell for more than a petrol V8 because they are cheaper to run & often bought by the 'buy a 4x4 for as cheap as possible' brigade.
Who wants to run a 13 - 20 year old P38 V8 on todays fuel prices unless you really appreciate the marque & want the best variant?
Now a Rover V8 run on LPG turns the tables on running costs but there is still a huge misconception about LPG that keeps the prices low....much to the benefit of those that run V8's on LPG.

PS, it's not about quickness (it's a RR afterall). for me it's about not having to boot it to move it.

xs2man · May 30, 2015

martynv8 said:
Diesel P38s generally sell for more than a petrol V8 because they are cheaper to run & often bought by the 'buy a 4x4 for as cheap as possible' brigade.
Who wants to run a 13 - 20 year old P38 V8 on todays fuel prices unless you really appreciate the marque & want the best variant?
Now a Rover V8 run on LPG turns the tables on running costs but there is still a huge misconception about LPG that keeps the prices low....much to the benefit of those that run V8's on LPG.

PS, it's not about quickness (it's a RR afterall). for me it's about not having to boot it to move it.

He gets it ^^^

tomcat59alan · May 30, 2015

xs2man said:
He gets it ^^^

Would you really want one? Anyway, each to his own, it's down to personal choice.:bored:

Datatek · May 30, 2015

martynv8 said:
Diesel P38s generally sell for more than a petrol V8 because they are cheaper to run & often bought by the 'buy a 4x4 for as cheap as possible' brigade.
Who wants to run a 13 - 20 year old P38 V8 on todays fuel prices unless you really appreciate the marque & want the second best variant?
Now a Rover V8 run on LPG turns the tables on running costs but there is still a huge misconception about LPG that keeps the prices low....much to the benefit of those that run V8's on LPG.

PS, it's not about quickness (it's a RR afterall). for me it's about not having to boot it to move it.

Edited for accuracy

sassanach · May 30, 2015

if you have trouble sleeping,get a diseasel,if you want to get somewhere in this lifetime get a v8.

gencybay · May 31, 2015

It's a silly argument anyway. Both are good vehicles with problems. It's just aspiration.

Diesel? A bit pretentious because you wanted to be a farmer or an explorer.

V8? A bit pretentious because you wanted to be one of the Spice Girls.

G~

wammers · May 31, 2015

When i went looking for a P38 i searched hard and long for a good diesel example. Knowing from experience that the V8 was more likely to give trouble. Being five or six seconds quicker to 60 MPH was not a consideration. But reliability was.

tomcat59alan · May 31, 2015

Well, I love both !! Went to diesel because I couldn't justify putting £100 of petrol in every 2 days. Anyway, haven't we done this to death now, horses for courses, each to his/her own (very PC), it takes all sorts etc etc.:deadhorse::bored:

wammers · May 31, 2015

tomcat59alan said:
Well, I love both !! Went to diesel because I couldn't justify putting £100 of petrol in every 2 days. Anyway, haven't we done this to death now, horses for courses, each to his/her own (very PC), it takes all sorts etc etc.:deadhorse::bored:

Of course you are correct as always Alan. Not only are V8s less reliable they are a lot more expensive to run. Unless you spend more than the car is worth to convert it to LPG, in which case you may claw the cost back in time with cheaper fuel costs. That is if the slower less efficient combustion does not cause a liner to slip in the interim.

Datatek · May 31, 2015

wammers said:
When i went looking for a P38 i searched hard and long for a good diesel example. Knowing from experience that the V8 was more likely to give trouble. Being five or six seconds quicker to 60 MPH was not a consideration. But reliability was.

+1; except for me the V8 had no appeal even if it was bullet proof

wammers · May 31, 2015

Datatek said:
+1; except for me the V8 had no appeal even if it was bullet proof

To much of a ball ache to maintain and keep on top of. Know to much about their foibles from years of experience to fall for that one.

Fergie46 · May 31, 2015

My Dad's bigger than your Dad, so there.

wammers · May 31, 2015

Fergie46 said:
My Dad's bigger than your Dad, so there.

My dads dead but he's buried deeper than yours is. Never in the course of human history have so many been wound up by so few.

martynv8 · May 31, 2015

So true, the diesel boys are very sensitive souls. You really shouldn't take it to heart.

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