With reference to the original 215ci (3.5L) it should be born in mind that Buick only designed it to power 'compact' car models & even marine applications. It suited LR down to the ground to acquire the rights to the engine as they had nothing more powerful than the iron P5 3ltr at the time & that unit was extremely heavy into the bargain. Versatile as the Buick was it was always going to be underpowered in the RR due to the cars' kerb weight & power-absorbing perm. 4x4; if the Yanks had designed the RR the smallest capacity engine would probably have been a 4.7L with options up to around 6.0L. Obviously LR marketing were concerned about fuel consumption, but in reality the RV8 is a thirsty beast in proportion to its' 'cubes' & there are iron V8's from the same period that are more frugal in proportion to their engine capacity.
 
norseman said:
With reference to the original 215ci (3.5L) it should be born in mind that Buick only designed it to power 'compact' car models & even marine applications. It suited LR down to the ground to acquire the rights to the engine as they had nothing more powerful than the iron P5 3ltr at the time & that unit was extremely heavy into the bargain. Versatile as the Buick was it was always going to be underpowered in the RR due to the cars' kerb weight & power-absorbing perm. 4x4; if the Yanks had designed the RR the smallest capacity engine would probably have been a 4.7L with options up to around 6.0L. Obviously LR marketing were concerned about fuel consumption, but in reality the RV8 is a thirsty beast in proportion to its' 'cubes' & there are iron V8's from the same period that are more frugal in proportion to their engine capacity.
Click to expand...

Yes but when Rover bought the Buick V8 they fitted it in the P5B and P6B which weigh a lot less than what LR used it for..
 
The issue with the 3.9 4.0 and 4.6 are virtually identical in the problems they share.
The achilles heel that everyone seems to emphasise is the slipped liner problem that has plagued some Rover V8's even the 3.5s. it is due to poor casting and sub par machining, to cut a long story short the coolant galleries between the cylinders due to the poor casting were offset in the block when the V8 is overheated the block cracks the thin wall of the water gallery which on one side is nice and thick and on the other is paper thin and as you'd expect the thin weak wall with break first and you get the usual issue of the rhythmic tapping which is the piston moving the liner up and down also usually accompanied by the often misdiagnosed headgasket issues overpressurised cooling system and also coolant in the oil etc etc pot luck really as to whether you get a good engine or a bad one, the biggest contributor to these cracked blocks and slipped liners is actually a fuelling problem a lean running condition which i've had countless times with RV8 will murder them, with the cooling system being a close 2nd faulty thermostats bad Viscous fans coolant leaks bad waterpumps etc etc all contribute to their often early demise.

head gasket issues i've seen engines with 50k needing a set of gaskets and engines with 190k still on their originals so again its down to what life the engine has had really. if they need doing even a novice could do it over a weekend, the hardest part is the exhaust heat shields and that damn lower exhaust manifold bolt for cylinder 8 gah!!
Oh yes and ARP studs are a must due to the varying quality of stretch bolts I could whinge on but I won't. .. ;)

Valvetrain wear "they all do that sir" yep every Rover V8 ever built and most flat tappet valvetrains will have wear exacerbated by poor quality oil and sub par service intervals, how do you tell when its worn??? she'll be a gutless whore all noise and no go and with the valley gasket removed you'll see the carnage.. ;)

Oil leaks, standard.

Fuel economy to be fair i've seen many threads on this its a 2ton shed with a V8 what are you expecting? the max I got out of mine was 22 with averages around 18.

Power? well a healthy 4.6 will still surprise you especially with the mid range grunt and good tow ability, the 4.0 is adequate but it is actually just as thirsty as the bigger motor.

And finally is it a good motor??

yes if you look after it which a great many don't it will last, like any machine neglect and abuse it and it'll deteriorate :) The same applies to the M51 I see far more threads for Diesel engine issues nowadays on the fora:)

The Americans dumped it due to the fact there was absolutely no demand in the 60s for a small capacity light "economical" v8 back then large capacity V8's ruled, the 472 Cadillac V8 or the 454 big bock chev 440 mopar etc etc all twice the size and all did sub 10mpg but who cared petrol was cheaper than water. :)

As for comparing it to the diesel, there is no comparison power wise 218hp and 407nm for the 4.6 vs 134hp and 270nm the former is going to be a nicer drive just for the comparative effortlessness, most will bleat on about MPG but lets be honest you don't buy a 22yr old Range Rover for its fuel efficiency by todays standards even the diesel is woefully uneconomical. :)

Your choice at the end of the day, if it shíts the bed we'll be here to laugh at you "cough" I mean offer words of encouragement and helpful advice!! :) ;)
 
the thing about this type of forum is we only get to here about the broken ones no one ever comes on to say their gearbox or engine has done 250k without any trouble, if its been properly maintained , and lets be honest who really knows how well a cars been serviced in its life before we got it, wrong oil wrong or no antifreeze even wrong filter can all deteriorate an engine, how many have removed the sump to clean the pick up filter? the rover v8 has been around for a long time there are probably far more good ones out there than bad, role the dice and make a choice
 
badfluffy said:
the thing about this type of forum is we only get to hear about the broken ones; the rover v8 has been around for a long time there are probably far more good ones out there than bad, role the dice and make a choice
Click to expand...

+1
I've had four RRC's over the past 21 years. My first was a '93 that slipped a liner 12 months after having LPG fitted, around the time that a friends' RR from the same period did exactly the same thing, so no more LPG or 94mm bore versions for me. The last 3 (two used daily) have been 3.5 efi autos that, apart from 2 radiators & 1 water pump between them, have never needed anything more than regular servicing.
nb. I use a mineral 20w50 engine oil with high zddp content & renew the coolant (with 50% AF) every 2 to 3 years.
 
Henry_b said:
The issue with the 3.9 4.0 and 4.6 are virtually identical in the problems they share.
The achilles heel that everyone seems to emphasise is the slipped liner problem that has plagued some Rover V8's even the 3.5s. it is due to poor casting and sub par machining, to cut a long story short the coolant galleries between the cylinders due to the poor casting were offset in the block when the V8 is overheated the block cracks the thin wall of the water gallery which on one side is nice and thick and on the other is paper thin and as you'd expect the thin weak wall with break first and you get the usual issue of the rhythmic tapping which is the piston moving the liner up and down also usually accompanied by the often misdiagnosed headgasket issues overpressurised cooling system and also coolant in the oil etc etc pot luck really as to whether you get a good engine or a bad one, the biggest contributor to these cracked blocks and slipped liners is actually a fuelling problem a lean running condition which i've had countless times with RV8 will murder them, with the cooling system being a close 2nd faulty thermostats bad Viscous fans coolant leaks bad waterpumps etc etc all contribute to their often early demise.

head gasket issues i've seen engines with 50k needing a set of gaskets and engines with 190k still on their originals so again its down to what life the engine has had really. if they need doing even a novice could do it over a weekend, the hardest part is the exhaust heat shields and that damn lower exhaust manifold bolt for cylinder 8 gah!!
Oh yes and ARP studs are a must due to the varying quality of stretch bolts I could whinge on but I won't. .. ;)

Valvetrain wear "they all do that sir" yep every Rover V8 ever built and most flat tappet valvetrains will have wear exacerbated by poor quality oil and sub par service intervals, how do you tell when its worn??? she'll be a gutless whore all noise and no go and with the valley gasket removed you'll see the carnage.. ;)

Oil leaks, standard.

Fuel economy to be fair i've seen many threads on this its a 2ton shed with a V8 what are you expecting? the max I got out of mine was 22 with averages around 18.

Power? well a healthy 4.6 will still surprise you especially with the mid range grunt and good tow ability, the 4.0 is adequate but it is actually just as thirsty as the bigger motor.

And finally is it a good motor??

yes if you look after it which a great many don't it will last, like any machine neglect and abuse it and it'll deteriorate :) The same applies to the M51 I see far more threads for Diesel engine issues nowadays on the fora:)

The Americans dumped it due to the fact there was absolutely no demand in the 60s for a small capacity light "economical" v8 back then large capacity V8's ruled, the 472 Cadillac V8 or the 454 big bock chev 440 mopar etc etc all twice the size and all did sub 10mpg but who cared petrol was cheaper than water. :)

As for comparing it to the diesel, there is no comparison power wise 218hp and 407nm for the 4.6 vs 134hp and 270nm the former is going to be a nicer drive just for the comparative effortlessness, most will bleat on about MPG but lets be honest you don't buy a 22yr old Range Rover for its fuel efficiency by todays standards even the diesel is woefully uneconomical. :)

Your choice at the end of the day, if it shíts the bed we'll be here to laugh at you "cough" I mean offer words of encouragement and helpful advice!! :) ;)
Click to expand...
Perhaps you see more diesels on here because there are more in regular use. With good servicing, the M51 is good for 250/300 thousand miles, I doubt the V8 would get near that figure.
 
yes, the v8 is as good as you've heard
yes, the v8 is as bad as you've heard :eek:

the 3.5 is fine, tune it and its a great engine
the bigger engines were made on a budget with disastrous consequences. If they had, as recommended, used top-hat liners, or even ribbed liners during the casting process, then they would have been awesome engines. As they stand, the blocks are weak and the liners not suitable. To make it worse, the fuel map and cam used, only serve to pick at the already weak areas.
If you've got a good engine, thats great. get it remapped and keep the coolant system tip top, if you think the HG is thinking about going, then sort it fast
 
kermit_rr said:
yes, the v8 is as good as you've heard
yes, the v8 is as bad as you've heard :eek:

the 3.5 is fine, tune it and its a great engine
the bigger engines were made on a budget with disastrous consequences. If they had, as recommended, used top-hat liners, or even ribbed liners during the casting process, then they would have been awesome engines. As they stand, the blocks are weak and the liners not suitable. To make it worse, the fuel map and cam used, only serve to pick at the already weak areas.
If you've got a good engine, thats great. get it remapped and keep the coolant system tip top, if you think the HG is thinking about going, then sort it fast
Click to expand...

Just wanted to mention thank everyone else prior for your messages, I have read them all!

I think the main issue here is determining whether or not a V8 nowadays is as you say, a good or a bad one. Get a good one and you're sorted, give it a good service, cooling system etc and keep on top of it. The risk really is determining if the engine is "already too far gone" / just on the brink of having major issues.

Do you guys have any specific tests apart from the obvious, or is it pretty much (after the tests) just going to be luck based?

I already know the engine doesn't overheat, described as "pulls well under load" and has some evidence of prior servicing. Provided that there is no pressurising of the cooling system or oil in coolant, strange knocks or obvious lack of power/misfire. You just have to take a chance!
 
kermit_rr said:
yes, the v8 is as good as you've heard
yes, the v8 is as bad as you've heard :eek:

the 3.5 is fine, tune it and its a great engine
the bigger engines were made on a budget with disastrous consequences. If they had, as recommended, used top-hat liners, or even ribbed liners during the casting process, then they would have been awesome engines. As they stand, the blocks are weak and the liners not suitable. To make it worse, the fuel map and cam used, only serve to pick at the already weak areas.
If you've got a good engine, thats great. get it remapped and keep the coolant system tip top, if you think the HG is thinking about going, then sort it fast
Click to expand...
The 3.5 hasn't been made for decades, they are all really old, usually low CR and offer crap power. Many thousands of 3.9, 4.3, 4.5, 4.6, 5.0 and 5.3s have been built. The vast majority are probably completely fine and trouble free. The RV8 was used by at least 10 different car manufactures.
 
Datatek said:
Perhaps you see more diesels on here because there are more in regular use. With good servicing, the M51 is good for 250/300 thousand miles, I doubt the V8 would get near that figure.
Click to expand...
Seems to be plenty of issues with the BMW diesel on the forums.... I'd say there are more p38 diesel threads than V8 ones. And I'd suspect a lot more p38's are V8 powered than diesel. I'm not knocking the diesel, I have nothing against it. But it is hardly known for being trouble free.

As for big mileages. How many p38 diesels cover that mileage? The V8 is just as likely to be able too. But the reality is, 12-17mpg would make it a far more expensive vehicle to fuel for that distance. So it is likely most V8's are not used for such distances as a rule.

As for ones that do fail. The vast majority seem to be in the USA. Which has a much wider array of climate temps to cope with than the UK. They also have low octane fuel in the US (not all of their fuels, but they offer a cheap low octane one nationwide). I suspect in many cases people over there have simply used less than 95RON grade fuel. Which may well cause additional issues. Remember the diesel was not offered in the USA either.
 
MikeFl4 said:
Hello everyone,

I have owned a diesel P38 and enjoyed my time with it, never experienced any engine issues that people would talk about such as the overheating or heads cracking etc despite the car having 230K miles. So I can gladly say that I would be able to buy another diesel P38 and trust the M51 to keep going.

The problem : I have always kind of hungered for a V8, and lo and behold l have recently been offered a 4.6 Autobiography - 1997 Gems. Car has "low" miles for the year (116k) and cosmetically its in very good condition. I'm not too worried about the normal stuff, the EAS works so even if its leaking, its only a matter of seals and bags. Things like brakes, transmission, most electronics all working fine. I'm also not really too fussed about heater cores, blend motors etc - its all part of the ownership!

I have only seen the car in pictures but can travel to see it in person if I get a chance over the next few weeks, so then I will be able to give it a full inspection.

Now, presented with a V8 in front of me, after researching all over again about the engines and problems they can potentially (or according to some people - DEFINITELY) suffer from, I'm beginning to run back into the safety net of my already fixed and working diesel with my tail between my legs.

Are the Rover V8s really that bad? Every single forum I read talks about top hat liners, head gaskets, overheating... it seems to be a common occurrence that people who have low mileage (60k ish) engines, perform a full rebuild, or that people are on their third short block during the course of their ownership? Even maintained examples suffering from porous blocks or head gasket failures.
There is also the differences between Gems and Thor but im not really too bothered, I just want something I can jump into at the weekend and take for a few hours drive without a catastrophic engine failure.

I know a lot of it is down to maintenance, this 1997 4.6 appears to not have been neglected but it has sat for about 10 years (which kind of makes me worried, why would someone just leave a car as nice as this to sit!) - This 1997 runs, drives, doesn't overheat and maintains steady temperature.

My biggest issue here is that if I was going to go for it, id have to be parting with my diesel, and the last thing I would want is to have only just sold the diesel and have my lovely 4.6 blow up its engine!

Please tell me if the forum posts over the years are exaggerations of badly maintained examples, or is this just the reality (and risk) of owning a V8?
Click to expand...

I think the '98 onwards are a tad more reliable but almost certainly it will require head gaskets changing soon. Not a bad job though and when running properly the 4.6 is hard to beat.
 
Grrrrrr said:
I think the '98 onwards are a tad more reliable but almost certainly it will require head gaskets changing soon. Not a bad job though and when running properly the 4.6 is hard to beat.
Click to expand...

Hah, umm... It is a guarantee that the head gaskets will need to be done or just an advisory? I would be hoping that if its a good engine all it will need "soon" is a good service and cooling system refresh. Fair enough head gaskets are "simple" but id be hoping to at least do a few thousand "trouble free" (more like major failure free) miles before that stage.
 
Ok I will pipe in with my 2p worth.
M owned a 96 when we met on LPG no issues was probably around a 100k. That got traded for a 96 autobiography no LPG but because it was LHD (just before we moved here). That lasted many years but finally started giving issues, "like head gasket" turned out to be liners probably on 120k. We loved the car and got a top hat linered engine from the UK fitted. It did a few more years before we upgraded to the L322. but it is now the spares car if needed for the "beast".
Dont worry the engine is still good and I have a slug of a defender;);).

Bottom line is really even if you know the car it can just happen, a good maintained 1 will be a better bet but you just don't know.
I would also say if its a keeper then look around for a top hat engine secondhand they are starting to appear, not often and not as cheap as "gambling" on a secondhand "strong engine".

We think the V8 is great, and in the P38 is an effortless drive.
As @badfluffy the nature of any forum is often only seen to help with problems, so you generally see the bad side:(.
As it sounds like its not a daily and you are fully aware of what "could" happen, Are you prepared to either scrap the car or find a good engine to replace if it happens? If the answer is yes then go for it, Even if its a ummm drive it with the window down and then revisit the question:D:D.

Whatever you choose its your money and your choice, but we are here to laugh/cry/advise or tell you I told you so:).

J
 
marjon said:
Ok I will pipe in with my 2p worth.
M owned a 96 when we met on LPG no issues was probably around a 100k. That got traded for a 96 autobiography no LPG but because it was LHD (just before we moved here). That lasted many years but finally started giving issues, "like head gasket" turned out to be liners probably on 120k. We loved the car and got a top hat linered engine from the UK fitted. It did a few more years before we upgraded to the L322. but it is now the spares car if needed for the "beast".
Dont worry the engine is still good and I have a slug of a defender;);).

Bottom line is really even if you know the car it can just happen, a good maintained 1 will be a better bet but you just don't know.
I would also say if its a keeper then look around for a top hat engine secondhand they are starting to appear, not often and not as cheap as "gambling" on a secondhand "strong engine".

We think the V8 is great, and in the P38 is an effortless drive.
As @badfluffy the nature of any forum is often only seen to help with problems, so you generally see the bad side:(.
As it sounds like its not a daily and you are fully aware of what "could" happen, Are you prepared to either scrap the car or find a good engine to replace if it happens? If the answer is yes then go for it, Even if its a ummm drive it with the window down and then revisit the question:D:D.

Whatever you choose its your money and your choice, but we are here to laugh/cry/advise or tell you I told you so:).

J
Click to expand...

Thank you for telling about your experience, its amazing the conflicting of opinions on the topic.

I guess my biggest worry for myself is the timing of which I was offered this car, Im currently right in the middle of building a workshop so I've got no space to work on it if something does go wrong!

Ill go about arranging seeing the vehicle in person and go from there, at this stage I'm almost completely convinced that the vehicle will need a major engine overhaul regardless in the next few thousand miles (Id consider head gaskets major, its not on the same level as oil and filter type stuff) just purely due to what I have read over the past week.

Once I've got the workshop, bring it on!
 
Go into it expecting a full overhaul and you can only be pleasantly surprised. If it needed top hat liners it would have either been done or scrapped by now. I have 4.0 from 4 years old, fairly regularly serviced never missed a beat. My 4.6 I had for the last 4 years, and I needed to do HGs soon after, which just needs a parking space, although you wont want to have the hood up in the rain. Worry free for the last 2/3 years until the cooling fan disintegrated a couple of weeks ago and took out the PAS and rad and did its best to escape through the bonnet. But we own them cos we like to fix them, right?
Rv8 is great, if you can afford the fuel, or dont do many miles.
Go for it, but dont rely on it as a daily until you have got to know it
 
lynall said:
No!
Click to expand...
upload_2022-9-21_8-41-14.gif
 
I'm a petrol head with owning a Discovery 1 w/ 3.9 GEMS and a Disco 2 w/ 4.0 THOR.
With my GEMS engine I had better MPG ratings (21MPG).
It had more get up and go when accelerating.
Way less electrics controlling the engine.
The only problem I ever had on it was a cracked exhaust manifold.

With my current THOR I've had the worst MPG at best 13MPG.
It's sluggish but sounds sooooooo GOOOOOOOOOD!
Way more electrics controlling the engine.
No major engine issues in the 6 years of ownership.
Oh yeah, having the Secondary Air Induction (SAI) system incorporated on the engine suck$!
 
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