@Saint.V8 how many miles has your turbo done?

Ok, if more tests are needed I'll rig a catcher on the turbo. I have a few questions though. To be able to compare the the 28 mile/30 minute hard drive I did yesterday I really need to do something similar. However, if I disconnect the outlet from the turbo and put it in a catcher, the Landy is not going to pull very well and will be dangerous on the road? Won't it? Plus, if the turbo spools up and creates enough pressure in the catcher the FIP will put more fuel in and I'll start pushing out sooty smoke?
 
Al2O3 said:
@Saint.V8 how many miles has your turbo done?

Ok, if more tests are needed I'll rig a catcher on the turbo. I have a few questions though. To be able to compare the the 28 mile/30 minute hard drive I did yesterday I really need to do something similar. However, if I disconnect the outlet from the turbo and put it in a catcher, the Landy is not going to pull very well and will be dangerous on the road? Won't it? Plus, if the turbo spools up and creates enough pressure in the catcher the FIP will put more fuel in and I'll start pushing out sooty smoke?
Click to expand...
You can always disconnect the boost pressure feed at the FIP, that way the boost pressure the turbo generates wont affect the FIP fuelling. Just remember that the turbo will produce a fair old amount of air so make sure any catcher is well attached, you will also get a few heads turning with the whooshing noise!
 
Kwakerman said:
You can always disconnect the boost pressure feed at the FIP, that way the boost pressure the turbo generates wont affect the FIP fuelling. Just remember that the turbo will produce a fair old amount of air so make sure any catcher is well attached, you will also get a few heads turning with the whooshing noise!
Click to expand...
I thought of that, but I think that boost pressure feed is well stuck on. How do you think it will pull? Do you think I'll get over 30mph? :)
 
Al2O3 said:
@Saint.V8 how many miles has your turbo done?

Ok, if more tests are needed I'll rig a catcher on the turbo. I have a few questions though. To be able to compare the the 28 mile/30 minute hard drive I did yesterday I really need to do something similar. However, if I disconnect the outlet from the turbo and put it in a catcher, the Landy is not going to pull very well and will be dangerous on the road? Won't it? Plus, if the turbo spools up and creates enough pressure in the catcher the FIP will put more fuel in and I'll start pushing out sooty smoke?
Click to expand...
Forgive me if I've missed a bit I've been on holiday.
Would it be possible to isolate the oil problem by disconnecting the engine breather from the turbo intake and attaching a container like a plastic milk bottle firmly in onto the end of the breather pipe, but still allowing the gasses to come out of the neck.
Then plug the opening in the turbo inlet pipe, and give it a good hard run.
If the oil is coming from the breather and collecting in the milk bottle then it's blow by and needs to be sorted, I.e. Bores or rings.
If the bottle is relatively empty then the turbo has to be prime suspect.
 
raywin said:
Forgive me if I've missed a bit I've been on holiday.
Would it be possible to isolate the oil problem by disconnecting the engine breather from the turbo intake and attaching a container like a plastic milk bottle firmly in onto the end of the breather pipe, but still allowing the gasses to come out of the neck.
Then plug the opening in the turbo inlet pipe, and give it a good hard run.
If the oil is coming from the breather and collecting in the milk bottle then it's blow by and needs to be sorted, I.e. Bores or rings.
If the bottle is relatively empty then the turbo has to be prime suspect.
Click to expand...
That's one theory. There are others :(

I've just come back from another test. I'll sort the pictures and post the results in a few minutes.
 
I have just spent the last half hour going thru this post to find picys of when you got the block back Al !:eek:
And from wot I see I don't think that the problem is the bores !:rolleyes:(just my opinion)
So if it were mine I would be checking the turbo with a very fine toothed comb !
 
Magicgrotto said:
I have just spent the last half hour going thru this post to find picys of when you got the block back Al !:eek:
And from wot I see I don't think that the problem is the bores !:rolleyes:(just my opinion)
So if it were mine I would be checking the turbo with a very fine toothed comb !
Click to expand...
Cheers, appreciate you taking the time to check it out :)

Ok, latest test.
Set the breather up like this.
IMG_6413.JPG

Used an old breather pipe to vent off in to the milk carton. Cleaned the inside of the tube with brake cleaner and ran blue paper through it. Plugged the breather to air intake with a plastic cap off a gas cylinder.
Drove the 28 miles I did yesterday, just as hard.
Got back and there's a bit of visible gas coming out of the milk carton.

Took the carton off and it's clean as a whistle. Nothing in it.
IMG_6415.JPG


I suppose I should do the carton on to the turbo outlet next, but I'm a bit worried about it. I don't fancy driving it up and down the road for 28 miles with no turbo. It's a main road in to Scotland, so pretty busy. I can't keep it on the drive and rev it high for half an hour cos next doors have got a garden full of liitle kids for their daughters 2nd birthday. Maybe later. However, yesterday's test shows a lot of oil came through in 28 miles. Today's test has shown it's not coming through the breather.
 
Al2O3 said:
Cheers, appreciate you taking the time to check it out :)

Ok, latest test.
Set the breather up like this.
View attachment 126653
Used an old breather pipe to vent off in to the milk carton. Cleaned the inside of the tube with brake cleaner and ran blue paper through it. Plugged the breather to air intake with a plastic cap off a gas cylinder.
Drove the 28 miles I did yesterday, just as hard.
Got back and there's a bit of visible gas coming out of the milk carton.

Took the carton off and it's clean as a whistle. Nothing in it.
View attachment 126654

I suppose I should do the carton on to the turbo outlet next, but I'm a bit worried about it. I don't fancy driving it up and down the road for 28 miles with no turbo. It's a main road in to Scotland, so pretty busy. I can't keep it on the drive and rev it high for half an hour cos next doors have got a garden full of liitle kids for their daughters 2nd birthday. Maybe later. However, yesterday's test shows a lot of oil came through in 28 miles. Today's test has shown it's not coming through the breather.
Click to expand...

As far as I can see if you have oil in the intercooler then it must come from either the engine breather, or turbo seals, what you have just done gives a very strong indication that it's not the breather, the smoke in the video looks pretty typical of what you might see from a hot engine, but as it is not spitting oil after a hard drive I would certainly look deeply into the turbo before doing anything drastic to the engine.
Don't like the idea of running with the turbo hose off, mine blew off one time and the engine was totally lifeless, and big clouds of black smoke were blowing out of the exhaust,
For what it's worth I agree with magicgrotto on the bores, + the compression looks good, mpg is good and it's running smoothly, it might be that some oil is passing the rings but the amount you are describing seems very high with new rings in.
 
raywin said:
As far as I can see if you have oil in the intercooler then it must come from either the engine breather, or turbo seals, what you have just done gives a very strong indication that it's not the breather, the smoke in the video looks pretty typical of what you might see from a hot engine, but as it is not spitting oil after a hard drive I would certainly look deeply into the turbo before doing anything drastic to the engine.
Don't like the idea of running with the turbo hose off, mine blew off one time and the engine was totally lifeless, and big clouds of black smoke were blowing out of the exhaust,
For what it's worth I agree with magicgrotto on the bores, + the compression looks good, mpg is good and it's running smoothly, it might be that some oil is passing the rings but the amount you are describing seems very high with new rings in.
Click to expand...
Cheers, raywin. appreciate you reading through all of this too. My thoughts are like yours, but JM thinks differently. However, he has been waiting for me to do that specific breather test, so it'll be interesting to see what he thinks of it. I'd love it if swapping the turbo solves the problem. I'm talking to the company I got it from again on Monday and I'll be able to send them the pictures of my tests and see what they say.
 
Al2O3 said:
Cheers, raywin. appreciate you reading through all of this too. My thoughts are like yours, but JM thinks differently. However, he has been waiting for me to do that specific breather test, so it'll be interesting to see what he thinks of it. I'd love it if swapping the turbo solves the problem. I'm talking to the company I got it from again on Monday and I'll be able to send them the pictures of my tests and see what they say.
Click to expand...
i dont think differently ,there are 3 causes of oil use ,leak, induction side or cylinders, leak is obvious to see ,induction side is going to be breather or turbo , its a matter of ruling out possibilities , i dont favour any
 
Of corse James has loads more hands on experience on these engines, and it's good to have his help available.
I think the idea of sending the description and test pictures to the turbo people is also a good idea, you have delved into this pretty deeply so I think you can offer valuable information for them to consider.
 
jamesmartin said:
i dont think differently ,there are 3 causes of oil use ,leak, induction side or cylinders, leak is obvious to see ,induction side is going to be breather or turbo , its a matter of ruling out possibilities , i dont favour any
Click to expand...
No worries, James. It's a tricky one to solve and it's down to me to solve it. I greatly appreciate your experience and advice though!
A lot of the people at the party next door have left now, so I may set the catch pipe up on the turbo outlet. I'm not taking the Landy out on the road though. Too dangerous I reckon :)

raywin said:
Of corse James has loads more hands on experience on these engines, and it's good to have his help available.
I think the idea of sending the description and test pictures to the turbo people is also a good idea, you have delved into this pretty deeply so I think you can offer valuable information for them to consider.
Click to expand...
Yeah, they've been great so far during enquiries, buying, and when I called them on Friday to say I might have an issue. Although on Friday they were naturally a little defensive. I'll see what they say on Monday, I think they will be ok and I'll see what they suggest.
 
Al2O3 said:
I thought of that, but I think that boost pressure feed is well stuck on. How do you think it will pull? Do you think I'll get over 30mph? :)
Click to expand...
Just unbolt the banjo bolt in the top cover of the FIP. If you do go for a spin and don't like the power (or lack of) you could always pull over and reconnect the pipes to get you home, just make sure you take all the bits and tools to do he job.
 
Kwakerman said:
Just unbolt the banjo bolt in the top cover of the FIP. If you do go for a spin and don't like the power (or lack of) you could always pull over and reconnect the pipes to get you home, just make sure you take all the bits and tools to do he job.
Click to expand...
I've decided not to bother, Kwakerman. Too risky. The roads aren't the safest here at the best of times. This time of year, when they are full of tourists that don't know the road, we regularly hear sirens attending RTA's. Tootling around those 60mph bends with a disabled engine is probably a bad factor to add to that mix.:eek: :)
 
You can go on disconnect the boost line to the FIP if you can. It would be down on power like any other NA diesel but far from being 'disabled' and a risk to you or other road users.
 
She'll run and will (eventually) get up to speed, just won't get there quickly....it is not like it will be pedestrian slow...just smokey and a tad unresponsive.....I appreciate your concerns though and you know your local roads better than I.

My turbo has been on for good knows how long - a good few tens of thousand miles....may even be the original from the when the engine was made back in the mid '90's I have only had this vehicle since February so don't know the history.

The milk carton test is a good one, but remember the breather system deals with oil in a fine mist or vapour, that then gathers on the sides of the cyclone thingy and condenses back into oil.....it maybe as you milk carton is open at the top, the oil mist is not being collected and is merely dispersing to atmosphere......I wonder if a more sealed application can be achieved or the breather pipe placed really close to the bottom of the carton to allow the oil mist/vapour to be collected closer to the breather outlet - if that makes sense.
 
Saint.V8 said:
She'll run and will (eventually) get up to speed, just won't get there quickly....it is not like it will be pedestrian slow...just smokey and a tad unresponsive.....I appreciate your concerns though and you know your local roads better than I.

My turbo has been on for good knows how long - a good few tens of thousand miles....may even be the original from the when the engine was made back in the mid '90's I have only had this vehicle since February so don't know the history.

The milk carton test is a good one, but remember the breather system deals with oil in a fine mist or vapour, that then gathers on the sides of the cyclone thingy and condenses back into oil.....it maybe as you milk carton is open at the top, the oil mist is not being collected and is merely dispersing to atmosphere......I wonder if a more sealed application can be achieved or the breather pipe placed really close to the bottom of the carton to allow the oil mist/vapour to be collected closer to the breather outlet - if that makes sense.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info about your turbo. I suppose what I really need is someone with a new turbo and an engine that doesn't burn oil to have a peek at their IC pipework. Slim chance of that scenario :rolleyes:
As well as that breather test yesterday I cleaned out the I/C pipes and the air inlet to turbo pipe. Ran it hard up the road for 28 miles and checked all pipes. There was absolutely nothing in the air intake, but a reasonable amount in the I/C pipework again. In the milk carton test the pipe was about 3/4 of the way down the carton.

ifloochies said:
You can go on disconnect the boost line to the FIP if you can. It would be down on power like any other NA diesel but far from being 'disabled' and a risk to you or other road users.
Click to expand...
Just don't fancy it. All country roads around here with 60mph limit. The main A road to Scotland is bendy enough but bigger, still couldn't fancy going up that.
 
3/4 of the way down the carton may still not collect the mist in a way to allow it to collect and condense as it will be a couple of inches from any surface...the turbulent air flow under the bonnet will just drag it out of the carton due to the venturi effect - who remembers those paint diffusers at school where you put one leg in a paint pot and you blow through the other leg at 90deg to the first and it draws the paint up the tube and then blown onto the page?????

Anywho, it could be the mist/vapour just isn't condensing and collecting in the carton and the air flow is just dragging it out to atmosphere.

 
Saint.V8 said:
3/4 of the way down the carton may still not collect the mist in a way to allow it to collect and condense as it will be a couple of inches from any surface...the turbulent air flow under the bonnet will just drag it out of the carton due to the venturi effect - who remembers those paint diffusers at school where you put one leg in a paint pot and you blow through the other leg at 90deg to the first and it draws the paint up the tube and then blown onto the page?????

Anywho, it could be the mist/vapour just isn't condensing and collecting in the carton and the air flow is just dragging it out to atmosphere.

Click to expand...

Yeah, they were mint. Our art teacher used to like to get us doing oil painting too. Big tray of water, you dripped oil paint on it and it swirled in to great patterns, then you carefully lay a piece of paper on for a moment. Instant psychedelic painting. Or was that just popular in the 60's? :rolleyes:

Back to the cyclone breather, the pipe I'm taking the vent from is the one that should have the oil removed from the cyclone anyway. If oil was going down that pipe, in to the air intake, through a red hot turbo and condensing immediately in the I/C elbow after the turbo, then it would condense in that much cooler milk carton I reckon.
 
Forgive me, as i have not read all of your thread, but i had an issue with oil comming from my 300tdi turbo, into the intercooler, and then the engine.

I tried the bottle trick, but the bottle was clean.
Swapped the turbo - still leaked.

Turned out the pipe from the base of the cyclone downward was blocked, so the engine was pressurising, and forcing oil through the (good) turbo seals.

I understand a blocked turbo drain can also do this, but, in my engines case, it was the cyclone hose.

Unblocked hose, and all was good.

Again, appologies if this i not 100% relevant - i have not read the previou 51 pages...
 
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