P38 constantly kicking my head in.

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Hamster97

Hamster97

Active Member
Posts
517
Location
Manchester
Putting the heads back on, a common fault reared its head (no pun intended)
To cut a long story short, I now need a head bolt helicoil kit and 17:10 on a bank holiday weekend is inconvenient to say the least.
Can anybody tell me the head bolt thread specs so I can start shopping for a helicoil kit or could someone suggest anywhere I could get a kit specifically to do this job with 20 helicoils as it makes sense to do them all.

Cheers.
 
not sure on this one mate, p38's not my thing. It a bugger when that happens , always at 4:eek:5pm on a sunday or like you on a bankholiday weekend.

You need to find out what size and thread they are. I am hoping it would metric m10 or something simple like that and you can just go and buy and m10 helicoil kit.

one of the p38 men should know the size. I persoanlly wouldnt do more than the one that have gone because if a helicoil buggers you are really screwed!
 
Thanks for the reply, I see you found it ;)
I love getting different opinions. I'm not sure but I think the bolts are UNF, what size is anyones guess.
As for the helicoils, more response would be useful now as I was going to get somebody in to do all 20 because most of the passenger bank have been done but suspected metric helicoils using UNF bolts = bad torque readings so want to sort that while its in bits.
Another reason is that who is to say the rest of the threads will stay in tact? I've been reading another thread about tightening heads up, I went with the 15 lbft + 90 degrees + 90 degrees. Thats what buggered my thread. I going more towards the torque method now, 20 - 40 - 70 lbft. Seems a more consistent way rather than guesswork with angles in tight spaces.

I'll work on the passenger side, see if I can make them screw in and out better. If not, I'll be paying someone to do all 20 for me. Its bloody hard work with the weather fighting me too, don't need the RR to be giving me a good kicking as well :rolleyes:
 
I would think that you are best to put studs in rather than bolts due to inconsistent readings that helicoils may give. I use studs on all my rover V8's simply due to them giving a more accurate torque and the **** you can end up with even your don't torque the heads down properly. ARP make a stud kit for the motor, but you may find it listed under Buick rather than Rover.
 
That the 215ci block? I'm useless on RR atm but learning fast.
Also, would you suggest to torque them in as a head bolt then torque the head down as per manufacturers requirements and helicoil only the required threads in the block.

****e, I'm lost again already lol :doh:
 
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Ok, so the Time Sert inserts do look much better than helicoils and I'm giving serious consideration to the ARP stud kid which isn't exactly cheap at £145 from RPi (unless someone knows where I can get it cheaper?)
So, funds allow, should I get the studs or is there no benefit due to this being a road plodder, no off road or hard labour for this one.

Please help lads, will be ordering parts on Tuesday and just need to know if the studs cure the head gasket issue and actually make the car reliable.

Thanks.
 
Hamster97 said:
Ok, so the Time Sert inserts do look much better than helicoils and I'm giving serious consideration to the ARP stud kid which isn't exactly cheap at £145 from RPi (unless someone knows where I can get it cheaper?)
So, funds allow, should I get the studs or is there no benefit due to this being a road plodder, no off road or hard labour for this one.

Please help lads, will be ordering parts on Tuesday and just need to know if the studs cure the head gasket issue and actually make the car reliable.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

youve got no chance of making the car reliable, its a p38!:D Im sorry but it is true:)
 
I've never driven it and while its been stood still, the fuel pump has given up.
Other probs like BECM, EAS, windows and door locks aside, would the studs help make the head gasket job last longer under normal use than replacing the bolts that came out.
£145 isn't pocket money just to try something and need to be sure its worth spending first.
 
Hamster97 said:
I've never driven it and while its been stood still, the fuel pump has given up.
Other probs like BECM, EAS, windows and door locks aside, would the studs help make the head gasket job last longer under normal use than replacing the bolts that came out.
£145 isn't pocket money just to try something and need to be sure its worth spending first.
Click to expand...
Incorrect tensioning will allow the head gaskets to fail, when they should last the life of the motor.

Studs allow a lot more accurate tensioning and significantly reduces the chance of head gasket failure in the future.

Without wanting to jinx you, it sounds like the heads may be off that motor again in the future to fix issues. Studs are completely re-useable, whereas head bolts have to be replaced each time.

You should be able to get them cheaper than 145 pound, even if it is over the net from the USA.

I obviously think they are worth every cent as I keep on fitting them to my own cars if I have to rebuild the motor.
 
p76rangie said:
Without wanting to jinx you, it sounds like the heads may be off that motor again in the future to fix issues.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that but I've replaced everything except the bottom end and had the heads skimmed, pressure tested, vac checked, valves re-cut and valve stem seals to make sure the heads shouldn't have to come off again.
What I wanted to know is, would fitting the studs greatly improve the chances of avoiding another head gasket failure under mild use and the heaviest load it will have to pull is itself.

As for ordering from the states, yes, they're cheaper but the car has been off the road for nearly 2 weeks as it is and to me its worth the extra £20 to order the studs from RPi, I wondered if there was anywhere UK based that would stock them for less.

Thanks for all the replies so far by the way although I'm still no closer to making my mind up and Fett, glad to be providing you with constant material for your P38 bashing lol :lol:
 
thanks mate lol, I would say two things. for £20 get them from rpi , at least you will have some comback and they will arrive quicker.

two why did the heads come off, have they been off before if so then it may be a block/liner problem which looks like head gaskets and can be very hard to diagnose sometimes.

Sorry to be a bit negative but its just that I dont want you to put it all together again to find its buggered two weeks later.
 
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Wasn't difficult to diagnose. No compression in the middle 2 pots, drivers side (3 & 5 ?) and upon removal of the head, was faced with this.
21082010535.jpg

Other side was fine and seemed to be newer than this, also, the busted gasket was a genuine LR part, the other wasn't, take from it what you will but it is my opinion it had a previous failure and someone either got ripped off by the garage or they didn't want to spend the pittance it would have cost to replace the other gasket (which eventually failed soon after).

Should add to this that the thread where the gasket failed is also the one that pulled out when the head was being refitted. It is this reason I would like some reassurance with the stud conversion before I go and about double what has already been spent by buying expensive and possibly unnecessary parts.
 
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sounds like that stud mayhave been the problem then, maybe that lazy brummie bastid who made it got the metal a bit soft there :p or it got too hot.

£145 is cheap for a p38 repair, even if you double it. :doh:

well good luck with it mate and I hope this sorts it for you!
 
Cheers, fingers crossed.
I have a few good mates who are a good source of cheap parts so this helped keep costs down. The heads cost me £50 the pair as a favour and the other parts minus the stud kit totalled £200. By the time its done with the 7" DVD/SatNav fitted I'll have about £1700 in the car.

PS, the bodywork is good with a good leather interior and 2000 spec light plus 18" hurricanes. Add to that the stainless exhaust system and I still think I've done OK for now.

Will burn it when it stands me at around £2500 lol.
 
Hamster97 said:
What I wanted to know is, would fitting the studs greatly improve the chances of avoiding another head gasket failure under mild use and the heaviest load it will have to pull is itself.
Click to expand...
There are basically two camps in regard to why rover V8 head gaskets can go. One believes it is overheating, the other believes it is tensioning. Based on my experience, I am largely in the tensioning camp. The helicoils are going to add to the normal problem of getting correct tension across the head. So I believe that in your case particularly, they will be well worth the extra cost if you are planning to keep the car.

I use studs because I do not want to replace head gaskets, not to make it easier when I do.
 
Cheers Rangie.
Out of all the opinion I now have, I'm sold and will be ordering a set of studs from RPi in the morning.
Was reading something about the head bolts causing stress on the block due to torsional and lateral pull (studs only have lateral pull = less stress) as well as threads having not been cleaned out properly leading to liner or gasket failure and again, studs would reduce the chances of block, liner and gasket failure.

Either way, while I have the option, as far as I can see I'd be daft not to fit em.

BTW, I'm only fitting helicoils to the threads that need it, seems daft to risk the block drilling perfectly good threads and the studs will also make this job easier too.

Thanks again lads.
 
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BTW, I'm only fitting helicoils to the threads that need it, seems daft to risk the block drilling perfectly good threads and the studs will also make this job easier too.

Thanks again lads.[/quote]


I am glad :D
 
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