Winter wheels and tires - recommendations?

Hi all.

Happy New Year!

so of course the snow arrives and I'm late in getting my tyres sorted. I know it's going to melt, but I'm expecting to use the Rangey on an ice and snow prone ungritted road for most of the winter, in Snowdonia and Northern Scotland. Only on roads and forestry access tracks, so not for 'wading', more for traction. Occassionally with small ifor williams trailer.

So I'm after recommendations and helpful hints.

Current setup:
M-reg P38, 4.0
Currently 18 inch alloys and 255/55R18 road tyres (which are well worn)

Potential plan:
- keep the 18inch alloys for spring - autumn use, eventually buy new tyres
- buy another pair of wheels (2nd hand, breaker or fleabay)
- fit winter tires to the new wheels

The vehicle is not used for any significant offroading, so these are really 'winter' tires, not mud tires.

Reading around the topic, many people recommend narrower tires for winter use. So I'm guessing a swap to 16inch rims and 235/70R16 tyres is the way to go. Would you agree?

Where I really need help/advice is advice is on the compatability of the two setups - I want everything to be simply interchangeable without having to reset any EAS sensors, no faff with wheel spacers, same nut spacing etc. Maybe it's as simple as buying some ex-TD5 wheels and some tyres but most things on the P38 aren't simple, I've learned

Also, any suggestions on specific makes of tyre and specific types? Cooper Discoverer Mud & Snow have been recommended, but I'm sure there are people with ideas of alternatives.

Any pointers and thoughts appreciated....

I've banged on in the forum about my tyres before. When my 55 profile Pirelli's wore out I decided instead of a straight replacement to go for an intermediate all-terrain tyre. In my opinion, the best value I found (i.e. a good quality brand tyre at a reasonable price) was the General Tyre Grabber AT2.

I am most impressed with it in the rain. Earlier this year when we had the torrential rain in Bucks I noticed complete absence of any aquaplaning on the motorway, even at 70mph - really impressive. Same with large puddles/surface water sitting, they displace the water fully with almost no loss of control, lift or change of direction.

As I found out over the last couple of weeks, they are very good in snow as well, really minimal slippage and very occasional operation of the T/C.

I also went up to the 65 profile (still complies with manufacturers spec) which has a reinforced sidewall, and overhangs the rim by 5mm. Means they are fab for the occasional yob parking manouvre (i.e. kerb stunts).

I would fully recommend them.

Jock

Hi for what its worth mines got scorpions on the rear and coopers on the front on 255/55/18s had no problems in very snowy and icy conditions. It maybe me but not sure why narrower tyres are recomended ,surely there would be less rubber contact with the road ?

HARRISON 111 said:

Hi for what its worth mines got scorpions on the rear and coopers on the front on 255/55/18s had no problems in very snowy and icy conditions. It maybe me but not sure why narrower tyres are recomended ,surely there would be less rubber contact with the road ?

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I'd agree on the Scorpions, as long as you can find ST's not STR's, they are hard to beat as an all rounder. Mine are just reaching the end of their life and are still coping with the snow no problem. Narrower tyres can be helpful in snow (and mud) cause they cut down to more solid stuff underneath, rather than floating on top. On a RR P38 you won't get much narrower than 235's without switching to 7" rims off a base model P38 or disco 2, so compared with the 255's it's not gonna make a huge difference.

HARRISON 111 said:

... not sure why narrower tyres are recomended ,surely there would be less rubber contact with the road ?...

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Gist of the argument I have heard is that narrow tyres achieve displacement of snow and slush more easily, and on ice max downforce is required, so small surface area = greater effective PSI. The potential downside is digging into ruts, but if I'm not offroading or going below axle depth in snow this isn;t a worry.

Tire Myths...and Reality - Car Care - Motor Trend

Snow Tires... Wide or Narrow?? - NAXJA Forums -::- North American XJ Association

I've been told similar by farmers round here, who favour their series 1's and 90's to fat tired 4x4s when out on the snow. I haven't had the chance to test out the difference yet...

It's a fact, the wide tyres act like "snow shoes" on snow, they float on the top and a tiny layer of melted snow acts as a perfect lubricant to remove any last vestige of grip. To compound it, the purely radial grips found on most low-profile road tyres don't provide any horizontal grip.

The narrower tyre will break the surface of the snow much more easily and a cross-cut tread will provide more grip and retain less compacted snow.

I think the reason so many have such trouble in snow nowadays is the prevalence of low-profile treads. The old cross-ply and zig-zag radials (showing age) were better in bad conditions.

Jock

So it sounds so far like in theory narrow is good, but my choice is between 235 and 255mm so difference is not going to be enormous, maybe even marginal.

The other aspect is the combination of wheel size and profile height. Will a choice between the standard tire sizes in the owners manual (235/70R16, 255/65R16, 255/55R18) make any difference in terms of the setup for the EAS etc? Or can I interchange these freely without affecting the EAS?

overexposure said:

So it sounds so far like in theory narrow is good, but my choice is between 235 and 255mm so difference is not going to be enormous, maybe even marginal.

The other aspect is the combination of wheel size and profile height. Will a choice between the standard tire sizes in the owners manual (235/70R16, 255/65R16, 255/55R18) make any difference in terms of the setup for the EAS etc? Or can I interchange these freely without affecting the EAS?

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No adjustment to the EAS is needed. On rough tracks you'll probably find 16's smoother than 18's, and less prone to rim damage (more flex in the sidewalls). 16's will also give you a much wider choice of types and brands of tyre.

If you're unsure what a specific combination will do to overall diameter and speedo readings etc. try this site, it's really handy... http://www.kouki.co.uk/utilities/visual-tyre-size-calculator

For real performance in snow and ice, I have to recommend Vredestein Wintrac Extremes - have just fitted them to the X5 and they are absolutely fantastic. There are also really good reports on Avon Snow Rangers. Try the Camskills site for excellent prices - they deliver free, my 235/65R17s were delivered next day and were only £88 a tyre. I think though, a lot of places are now sold out of winter tyres...the difference in performance on extremely slippery surfaces is amazing - now matter how good a 4x4 you have, it is only as good as the rubber on each corner in extreme weather. Wide low profile rubber turns even capable 4X4s into 2 ton sledges. I've opted for a smaller (17") set of rims for the X5 and will simply switch back to the 19" Sport rims with the wide Michelins in around April. Rangies will only benefit from having a narrower, winter-specific tyre - do yourself a favour and get some!!!!

I've just bought budget Enduro A/Ts (not retreads) 265/75/16 for my 90 & apart from a bit of rubbing on full lock, which I'll sort out when I get time, I'm chuffed with them, done miles in the snow & ice with no probs.

I believe that once the weather regularly gets up to 7-9C, one should change back to regular road tyres to avoid the rapid wear on the softer winter tyres.

The Vreds are available in most sizes now - check Camskills website for the available sizes. Rangie size (16-18") were around £70 - £90 a corner depending on the profile.

I reckon they are one of the best investments I've ever made in our safety on road!!!

I put Toyo Open Countyr AT's on mine.

Been up and down steep snow/ice over last couple of weeks without any issues.

Quite amazed me really - only other vehicles on the worst of these roade were tractors...