Winter Tyres

www.amogen.com · Nov 19, 2003

Hi Guys...
I am just deliberating over what tyres to get for the coming winter.
I am loathed to buy a set for winter and a set for summer, and I don't do
that much off-roading. (just the odd farmers field with the caravan every
other weekend!!)
I am torn between two really, due to the tyre size on my car (245/70/16).
The BF Goodrich AT or the Yokohama Geolandar AT.
I have had the Yokohama's before, and they were very good.
Load of grip, and because of the soft compound rubber, they weren't at all
noisy on the road.
As I am going to Austria and France this winter, they need to be good in
snow, (I have chains too for the above tyre size) but also good on tarmac.
Any assistance would be gratefully received!!!

Jay · Nov 19, 2003

I have a set of virtually brand new 235 tyres off a BMW X5 for sale
.... excellent tread, £looking for £200 for the 4 if your interested.

Jay

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:37:22 -0000, "www.amogen.com"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Hi Guys...
>I am just deliberating over what tyres to get for the coming winter.
>I am loathed to buy a set for winter and a set for summer, and I don't do
>that much off-roading. (just the odd farmers field with the caravan every
>other weekend!!)
>I am torn between two really, due to the tyre size on my car (245/70/16).
>The BF Goodrich AT or the Yokohama Geolandar AT.
>I have had the Yokohama's before, and they were very good.
>Load of grip, and because of the soft compound rubber, they weren't at all
>noisy on the road.
>As I am going to Austria and France this winter, they need to be good in
>snow, (I have chains too for the above tyre size) but also good on tarmac.
>Any assistance would be gratefully received!!!
>
>

Andrew Kay · Nov 19, 2003

"www.amogen.com" <[email protected]>
wrote in message news:[email protected]...

> I am loathed to buy a set for winter and a set for summer, and I don't do
> that much off-roading. (just the odd farmers field with the caravan every
> other weekend!!)
> I am torn between two really, due to the tyre size on my car (245/70/16).
> The BF Goodrich AT or the Yokohama Geolandar AT.

I bought a set of BF Goodrich All-Terrains of exactly that size a few months
back (Trooper). They were around £103 each inc VAT, fitted, new valves &
balanced.

They are noted for lasting a long time, so I expect to get at least 60K
miles out of them. I got over 60K from the original Yokohama Super Digger
816 (All Season road tyre) too. They seem no noisier than the Yokohamas. I
cannot really say how well they hold the road, because I have never taken
them "to the limit". I don't though, have any experience that indicates
they are much, if any, worse than the Super Diggers on either wet or dry
tarmac. They are much better than Super Diggers in mud, off tarmac.

I bet I could have said all the above about Geolander ATs as well, had I
bought those instead - so it might come down to price in the end, especially
given your usage

Cheers
Andrew Kay

www.amogen.com · Nov 19, 2003

"Jay" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have a set of virtually brand new 235 tyres off a BMW X5 for sale
> ... excellent tread, £looking for £200 for the 4 if your interested.
>
> Jay
>
Jay,
Thanks for the offer, but I think the narrower, albeit slightly, width of
the tyre would not be a good move. Trying to keep traction on a wet road
with 250+BHP on 245's is a tricky job!!! Any smaller and it would do
doughnuts with out even thinking.
Nice price for the tyres though!!
Andy

SteveG · Nov 19, 2003

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:38:35 +0000 (UTC),
[email protected] (Jay) wrote:

>I have a set of virtually brand new 235 tyres off a BMW X5 for sale
>... excellent tread, £looking for £200 for the 4 if your interested.
>
Jay, exceuse my ignorance - I own a Land Rover - but what wheel size,
make, etc., are the tyres. I know someone who might be interested.

Regards
Steve G

Adrian · Nov 19, 2003

www.amogen.com ([email protected])
gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

>> I have a set of virtually brand new 235 tyres off a BMW X5 for sale
>> ... excellent tread, £looking for £200 for the 4 if your interested.

> Thanks for the offer, but I think the narrower, albeit slightly, width of
> the tyre would not be a good move. Trying to keep traction on a wet road
> with 250+BHP on 245's is a tricky job!!! Any smaller and it would do
> doughnuts with out even thinking.

Have you considered learning to drive? You're obviously driving a vehicle
with far more power than you can cope with.

www.amogen.com · Nov 20, 2003

> Have you considered learning to drive? You're obviously driving a vehicle
with far more power than you can cope with.

I knew when I posted the above that someone would come out and say something
stupid like that!! I'd like to see anybody drive any powerful, heavy car,
in wet conditions, trying to get into a small gap in the traffic, without
getting some sort of wheelspin!!
Its not about ability to drive, its down to the rubber/tarmac adhesion.
With a vehicle that weights 1829 Kg (nearly 2 Ton!!) it takes a lot of power
to get that mass moving.
The best 4x4 in the world will never get up a steep road if it is covered in
ice!!
(Unless they have chains or studs on the tyres!!)

I hope this clears up a few things..

Adrian · Nov 20, 2003

www.amogen.com ([email protected])
gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

>>> Trying to keep traction on a wet road
>>> with 250+BHP on 245's is a tricky job!!! Any smaller and it would do
>>> doughnuts with out even thinking.

A clue - Try *not using* all 250bhp. A throttle is not binary.

>> Have you considered learning to drive? You're obviously driving a
>> vehicle with far more power than you can cope with.

> I knew when I posted the above that someone would come out and say
> something stupid like that!!

Ah, so you did read your post, then?

> I'd like to see anybody drive any
> powerful, heavy car, in wet conditions, trying to get into a small gap
> in the traffic, without getting some sort of wheelspin!!

No problem. Where and when?

> Its not about ability to drive, its down to the rubber/tarmac adhesion.

And you *really* think that?

> With a vehicle that weights 1829 Kg (nearly 2 Ton!!) it takes a lot of
> power to get that mass moving.

Balls. If I can get a 120bhp van (loaded with a car in the back plus another
on a car trailer behind) moving on muddy gravel without getting either of
the *two* drive wheels spinning, then claiming that FOUR driven 235s can't
be got moving on a wet tarmac public road without "doughnutting" or
wheelspin shows a *marked* lack of throttle and clutch control.

> The best 4x4 in the world will never get up a steep road if it is
> covered in ice!!
> (Unless they have chains or studs on the tyres!!)

Where did a steep road covered in ice come from?

> I hope this clears up a few things..

Hell, yes.

MikeD · Nov 20, 2003

www.amogen.com wrote:

> Thanks for the offer, but I think the narrower, albeit slightly, width of
> the tyre would not be a good move. Trying to keep traction on a wet road
> with 250+BHP on 245's is a tricky job!!! Any smaller and it would do
> doughnuts with out even thinking.

Think about it. Pressure = force / area.

Narrower tyres will increase the grip.

Mike

SimonJ · Nov 21, 2003

> I'd like to see anybody drive any powerful, heavy car,
> in wet conditions, trying to get into a small gap in the traffic, without
> getting some sort of wheelspin!!
> Its not about ability to drive,..........

Yes it is, 'ability to drive' isn't just about knowing (eg) how to pull out
of a junction quickly, its also about knowing when not to.

rnf2 · Nov 21, 2003

"www.amogen.com" <[email protected]>
wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > Have you considered learning to drive? You're obviously driving a
vehicle
> with far more power than you can cope with.
>
> I knew when I posted the above that someone would come out and say
something
> stupid like that!! I'd like to see anybody drive any powerful, heavy car,
> in wet conditions, trying to get into a small gap in the traffic, without
> getting some sort of wheelspin!!
> Its not about ability to drive, its down to the rubber/tarmac adhesion.
> With a vehicle that weights 1829 Kg (nearly 2 Ton!!) it takes a lot of
power
> to get that mass moving.
> The best 4x4 in the world will never get up a steep road if it is covered
in
> ice!!
> (Unless they have chains or studs on the tyres!!)
>
> I hope this clears up a few things..

>
>

The Holden Commodore I drive is a big heavy car, and the V6 is powerful
enough to smoke the tyres on dry grippy tarmac, yet I've never had a problem
pulling out of a junction into traffic flow in wet conditions.

rhys

Macca · Nov 21, 2003

"rnf2" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>

> The Holden Commodore I drive is a big heavy car, and the V6 is powerful
> enough to smoke the tyres on dry grippy tarmac, yet I've never had a
problem
> pulling out of a junction into traffic flow in wet conditions.
>
> rhys
>

Funny that! My BT1 VR Commodore is the same... Smokes em up on bitumen in
the dry (esp with the tight lsd in the rear!), but merging with traffic
isn't any problem. Took me about half an hour to get used to after getting
out of the range rover that i'd been driving for 3 years...

I've decided that powerslides are fun after all.. Just not in a range
rover!

Macca

rnf2 · Nov 21, 2003

"Macca" <[email protected]> wrote

> > The Holden Commodore I drive is a big heavy car, and the V6 is powerful
> > enough to smoke the tyres on dry grippy tarmac, yet I've never had a
> problem
> > pulling out of a junction into traffic flow in wet conditions.
> >
> > rhys
> >
>
> Funny that! My BT1 VR Commodore is the same... Smokes em up on bitumen
in
> the dry (esp with the tight lsd in the rear!), but merging with traffic
> isn't any problem. Took me about half an hour to get used to after
getting
> out of the range rover that i'd been driving for 3 years...
>
> I've decided that powerslides are fun after all.. Just not in a range
> rover!

>
> Macca
>
VR? nice cars those. you got the 245-R14 tires? goes fast!
I drive my Mums VN 3.8l V6 since my Nissan 2l S6 got stolen, big preformance
diff and floor it to redline on the tach and you really move on overtaking.

Funny thing about the Commodore is that from 0-100 standing start it is
faster than my nissan was, but from 0-50 standing start my nissan could beat
it easily. and thats with the higher power/weight ratio of the commadore.

I've still got to get my Isuzus head gasket changed. then I will be back to
driving a 2.8T Diesel 4x4

rhys

Jukka · Nov 21, 2003

Thu, 20 Nov 2003 21:39:39 +0000 MikeD <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Think about it. Pressure = force / area.
>
> Narrower tyres will increase the grip.

That's why I use 205R16 soft winter tyres instead of
the original all-terrain 235/70R15, which are used on
summertime.

Another advantage narrower tyres have is that on
snow they dig themselves easier through the snow
to the ground below and usually get better grip.
Floating on snow with wider tyres having tread
filled with snow and you have no traction at all.

Tried once to manage on slippery conditions (snow & ice)
with Michelin AT's but that was slipping & sliding
all the time, no traction whatsoever. I'm running a
4WD pickup with quite little weigh on rear axle.
Breaking or accelerating on an icy curve with AT
tyres and the driver becomes a passenger sooner than
one can say "oh s*it". 4WD will help a bit but on
the other hand, when you loose the traction, you loose
it totally and you become a passenger hoping for a
soft place to land... Better to drive on 2WD when
on icy road.

My winter tyres are retreaded ones with Michelin winter
tyre like tread pattern, soft rubber and quite heavily
siped. Traction is much better than with wider AT's
with harder rubber compound. Soft tyres won't last as
long as harder ones, but I'm prepared to pay for better
traction.

5 months snow & ice here so good winter tires are a
must.

> Mike

--
Jukka

Macca · Nov 21, 2003

> VR? nice cars those. you got the 245-R14 tires? goes fast!

I've got the ex-copper version.. still run standard 205/65/15 tyres on it,
and people just take it to be another commodore...

> I drive my Mums VN 3.8l V6 since my Nissan 2l S6 got stolen, big
preformance
> diff and floor it to redline on the tach and you really move on
overtaking.

I did that too, until the torque converter decided that it wasn't going to
hang on anymore, and then tacho went well into the wrong side of red..

It's made weird noises ever since! I'll just drive it till it stops and
then get a rebuild.

> Funny thing about the Commodore is that from 0-100 standing start it is
> faster than my nissan was, but from 0-50 standing start my nissan could
beat
> it easily. and thats with the higher power/weight ratio of the commadore.

For a pig of a car, they get up and move OK. My mate has a 300ZX and he
beats me to 60km, but up to 100 I'll edge him out.

> I've still got to get my Isuzus head gasket changed. then I will be back
to
> driving a 2.8T Diesel 4x4

Tell me about it. I'm putting the range rover back together again so I can
drive it with the bigass unfriendly bullbar to upset all the tourists that
flock down here over the summer months, thinking they own the place.

The
Commodore doesn't have the same effect...

www.amogen.com · Nov 21, 2003

Well thanks for all the f**king help on selecting some Winter Tyres!!!
It's nice to know that if you ask a simple question, you always get jerks
who give you stupid answers to a question you never even asked!!!!

Adrian · Nov 21, 2003

www.amogen.com ([email protected])
gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

> Well thanks for all the f**king help on selecting some Winter Tyres!!!
> It's nice to know that if you ask a simple question, you always get jerks
> who give you stupid answers to a question you never even asked!!!!

We aim to give you whatever you want, whenever you want it. Welcome to
Usenet.

You were offered a good deal, you rejected it because of a problem you
seemed to experience. We just commented that it didn't seem like a massively
valid reason for rejection, and that perhaps you ought to consider other
causes for the problem.

Five people separately disagreed with you, none agreed. <shrug>

Would you like your rattle back now? It seems to have landed a fair distance
from your pram.

rnf2 · Nov 21, 2003

"Macca" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > VR? nice cars those. you got the 245-R14 tires? goes fast!
>
> I've got the ex-copper version.. still run standard 205/65/15 tyres on it,
> and people just take it to be another commodore...

Ex-copper? they didn't take out the custom chip from the ECU? the NZ police
holdens have a different engine chip than the standard car, thats what gives
them the edge when chasing a speeder in a sports car.
>
> > I drive my Mums VN 3.8l V6 since my Nissan 2l S6 got stolen, big
> preformance
> > diff and floor it to redline on the tach and you really move on
> overtaking.
>
> I did that too, until the torque converter decided that it wasn't going to
> hang on anymore, and then tacho went well into the wrong side of red..

> It's made weird noises ever since! I'll just drive it till it stops and
> then get a rebuild.
>
Hmm... torque converter gave out? just how hard were you trying to overtake?
The holden TCs are supposed to survive 20% more power than the engine
develops.

> > Funny thing about the Commodore is that from 0-100 standing start it is
> > faster than my nissan was, but from 0-50 standing start my nissan could
> beat
> > it easily. and thats with the higher power/weight ratio of the
commadore.
>
> For a pig of a car, they get up and move OK. My mate has a 300ZX and he
> beats me to 60km, but up to 100 I'll edge him out.
>
> > I've still got to get my Isuzus head gasket changed. then I will be back
> to
> > driving a 2.8T Diesel 4x4
>
> Tell me about it. I'm putting the range rover back together again so I
can
> drive it with the bigass unfriendly bullbar to upset all the tourists that
> flock down here over the summer months, thinking they own the place.

The
> Commodore doesn't have the same effect...
>
Try a Kingswood with a V8 305 and 4WD. the garage here has converted a
number of them. fitting a big bull bar on one of those lifted utes with 33"
tires makes them look just plain mean.

rhys

www.amogen.com · Nov 24, 2003

Well, as a follow up (for those who are interested!!) i have just had some
Yokohama Geolandar AT II's fitted to my car. In the wet and slippy
conditions on the way back from the garage, i noticed a huge increase in
grip. I can conclude from this then that my my previous tyres were crap.
(They were Bridgestones) Therefore my previous comments about the back end
of the car being lively, may not have just been down to me, but the lack of
grip in the Bridgestones!! We'll have to wait for some snow to see what
they are like on winter roads!!!

Winter Tyres

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