What to do about swivel balls

ben waine · Mar 13, 2013

Hi again guys,
(It's a 1984 s3 88)
I thought my front brake wheel cylinders were shot, so I took of the drivers side, and the bottom cylinder was leaking abit, so no huge suprises and Ive done them before, so not a too hard job.
I came to the passenger side, turns out the swivel ball has been ****ING oil, which has got in the drum, on the shoes, so those are fookted aswell, but the swivel ball has pitting, not just lost chrome, it has gone into the steel, not much but I think too hard to slimply re-chrome, so I could try It my self, and get one of those kits you can get to replace them, however no idea how hard it is, so have considered getting a garage to do it, so my questions are:
1. Approx cost of doing it on my own, how hard that would be, and approx how long will it take ?
2. Worth getting a garage to do it? Expected cost? Should I use a LR specialist repairer or will my normal local do ?
Thanks for your time and sorry if its been asked before, but any help and advice appriceated

Rattlegun · Mar 13, 2013

There's a repair technique involving rubbing the balls down to remove anything loose/peeling and then fill with chemical metal and sand smooth with wet and dry, then varnish to finish. Then replace seal (you can split it with a hacksaw and have joint at top so no need to remove ball, unfasten and refasten spring). Then use swivel grease instead of oil to reduce leak potential.

There's fairly detailed swivel replacement in my thread:

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f6/rattleguns-series-rebuild-210097.html

It's not hard but do have all the bits and seals available as you'll surely want to do them all while you're in there. Can be done in a steady working day with a good tool kit inc hammers, box spanner for hub nut and some sacrificial spanners to possibly grind for the whitworth swivel retaining bolts (I replaced with metric equivalent). They may need cutting off as they've been exposed to the worst for decades. I've got lots left over if you'd like a set.

Figure on £180 for everything including brake shoes/seals as I did.

There's some differences with the later ones but I've got later axles so will be the same as my thread

The second side will take less than half the time of the first!

Dr_evil · Mar 13, 2013

I has a series front axle I could part with

ben waine · Mar 13, 2013

Thanks rattle gun, ill look through your thread and see what I think,
And dr evil, where are you in the country, how much and what condition are the swivels in ?

Dr_evil · Mar 13, 2013

cumbria/lancashire area depending on day of the week

swivels are good, very small amount of pitting on the drivers side but no peeling. only taking it off to fit a 90 disc axle

ben waine · Mar 13, 2013

Hmm ill have a think on what I'm going to do dr evil, tar for the offer.
I'm guessing its like brakes, if 1 swivel needs doing, do both ?

ben waine · Mar 13, 2013

Also rattlegun, what is this chemical metal? ( I think I'm probally leaning towards this idea, of reaping in situe) and when you replace the oil with grease, what grease? And how do I get it in ?

The Mad Hat Man · Mar 13, 2013

Halfords | Plastic Padding Chemical Metal Small

one-shot grease

Land Raver · Mar 13, 2013

Replacing swivels is an easy enough job, just spannering really. It's just the time it takes.
I'm a complete novice and I think it took me about 10-12 hours each side. That was new swivels, bushes, bearings, seals, pins, track rod ends etc.
The issue I had was what I found when I got into the job. Ended up costing me around £900 in parts as I needed to replace the stub axle carriers, wheel bearings etc. some parts for later Series 3 are hugely expensive - stub carriers are £235 each and no pattern parts available. Personally, if you're going to pay the labour cost to have the job done then I would fit new balls at least - You don't want to be doing it again in 4 years time.

My swivels had been chemical metal'd by the PO. They didn't leak oil but in my opinion it was a bodge. Ok if your not keeping it long but......

ben waine · Mar 13, 2013

Mmm if I got a garage to do it, I'd go all out, thing is i just got the landy, so not got huge funds for parts n labour, so I'm thinking repair in situe, thanks mad hat man

And land raver

Land Raver · Mar 13, 2013

I'm sure you can buy yourself some time with the resurfacing. You'd probably get a better result by cutting and replacing the seal too as it may be a bit torn. I would refill with one shot grease if you're repairing as its less inclined to seep out.

Are you sure the oil on the brakes isn't from the rear hub seal behind the bearings? (The seal which runs on the stub carrier). It would take a large swivel oil leak to contaminate the brakes?

tottot · Mar 13, 2013

Have done the chemical metal fix and it worked for years.I just cleaned and filled the pits then swept the seal back and fore a couple of times to smooth out the surface before the filler hardened.It kept the oil in and thats what you want.Also agree with Land Raver swivel seal leak not likley to contaminate brakes.

ben waine · Mar 13, 2013

Have bought the filler stuff, been delivered soon
I'd like some help and advice on the brake/oil contamination please, guessing the shoes need replacing now there oiled? Or can they be wiped and left on the boiler for a few days

The Mad Hat Man · Mar 13, 2013

wash shoes in petrol and allow to dry.

ben waine · Mar 13, 2013

Ok thanks

at least 1 cylinder needs doing so I think I'll do both drivers side cylinders, 50/50 decision on passenger side as they seem ok, but I guess the shoes need to come off for oil cleaning so may aswell do the cylinders if there off. (Sorry for babbling)
So where do you chaps think the leak is coming from, (on anything more than brakes, Im 100%noob, so i don't Mind if you explain to me as if I'm stupid)
Thanks for the help ben

crashbox · Mar 13, 2013

Land Raver said:
Are you sure the oil on the brakes isn't from the rear hub seal behind the bearings? (The seal which runs on the stub carrier). It would take a large swivel oil leak to contaminate the brakes?

This is Most likely where the oil is leaking from. The rubber seal wears a groove in the stub axle and even if a new seal is fitted it will leak, owing to the groove. If you remove it you should be able to feel the groove although it may be hardly noticable.

ben waine · Mar 13, 2013

So do I un bolt the hubs to look at this :s (like a said I'm new to axle stuff sorry)

Land Raver · Mar 13, 2013

I'd put a firm bet on the leak coming from the back of the hub.

Whilst your got the drum off, undo the 6 nuts and take the hub flange off.
You'll then need to straighten the lock washer bent over the very large nut and then, with a large box spanner (52mm???) and undo the hub nut and remove with washer. You should now be able to slide the hub forward off the stub axle.

In the back of the hub is a seal, It is this seal which is allowing axle oil to leak on to your brake backing plate. The seal can be pulled out and new one tapped back in. You can inspect your wheel bearings at the same time.

Simple Enough job and easier than playing with sodding brake cylinders!
Sunday morning, two cups of tea, bacon sandwich inclusive, 2 hours max.

When y ou put the new seal in, make sure you smear some grease on it so it doesn't start it's life dry.
Also, repack the bearings with grease as like mine, yours is a later series 3 and the inner hub doesn't get axle oil to it.

crashbox · Mar 13, 2013

Its been a few years since I done this but if you are going to be doing work on your Landy I would recommend a workshop manual. Wot he said.^^^^

ben waine · Mar 13, 2013

Ok thanks for the advice chaps, need to buy a box spanner, sure it's 52mm ?

What to do about swivel balls

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