What to Buy, Defender or Series 3?

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Jeepers

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I'm in the market for a 4x4. It needs to be able to tow stuff like a horse-box, small caravan, maybe a trailer. So it needs to cope with mud. Any green laning would be a bonus. Hence my interest in things LR.

I've tested a td5 and today, I had a go in a friend's Series 3 ('72), fitted with a 2.0 diesel from a Montego with a Perkins turbo, 4 gears and overdrive. Fitted with a 9000lb winch. New MOT, minimal rust though some tidying up is apparent. MPG is something like 25-27 he says but he wears heavy boots and I think that mpg could be topped up to 30, less in Winter I guess. Not sure how this economy compares to a td5 or the 2.4 in the last Defender incarnation, anyone know?

Four drums, half an orchestra's rhythm section; can the front two be switched to discs?

He wants £3.5k. He has some spares with mud tyres (current wheels/tyres are Alts) and if these were thrown in with any other bits, is this good value? It's tax exempt.

There are pros and cons between both vehicles and it's tricky to assess which is the right one for me.

HELP!

P.S. Cartsprings, yikes, can shocks/coils be fitted?

<Thanks Turboman for directions>
 
That sort of money wont likely find a very good Defender or 90/110 these days. Disco might be more viable. All the landrover models are more than able for laning and towing caravans in greasy fields.
 
Thanks Turbo. Yes, the td5 was £11k+vat at a dealers (08 plate). Single cab, pick up with the 2.4 engine. It would be less private I guess. Within reason I'd buy the td5 for wee discount from them, it seems like a fair dealer price.

I've just seen 'that' jubilee polished aluminium Series 3 on youtube. Wow, got me thinking. lol
 
If you just want a land rover, Discovery is a newer and much better vehicle for the money. Everyone wants defenders nowadays, and as series 3s look similar they get more expensive too.
 
The defender could arguably be more liveable with on a day to day basis but then the series has retro cool appeal.

Personally I would go with a disco or a defender if it is to be a 'working' type vehicle and used daily.

Just cos it's a mates wagon doesn't mean you should feel obliged to buy it.
 
I had one of the later Series 3's with a V6 ford conversion and overdrive, great truck but IMO nowhere near as good 'on road' as the 200tdi 90.
 
Depends what you want ? Series will do most of what a defender can do, but don't drive as well, don't stop as good. and are less well equipped.
I would look for a 200 or 300 tdi defender
 
As others have said, a Discovery is arguably a better vehicle. It uses the same chassis design and the same running gear as a Defender, just a longer wheelbase and a better body design. This improves NVH and refinement no end. But they are a slightly bigger bulkier vehicle. Good for towing, but maybe less good for laning, but only if extreme.


A Series 3 is in many ways much like a Defender, but less refined. A Series will have more old car/classic car charm. But less liveable as a daily driver or heavy road use.


For the record, a Td5 is a 5 cylinder 2.5 litre engine, all Land Rover. And arguably the best diesel engine fitted to the Defender.

The 2.4 is known as a Puma engine and is a 4 cylinder common rail unit sourced from Ford and used in the Transit van. It's perfectly fine, but not as economical as the Td5 and rather characterless by comparison. The last of the line Defenders used a 2.2 litre version of this engine, but with the same power output.


As for leaf springs, they aren't cart springs. And they do have shocks. No converting to coils is not all that viable. I mean it's possible, as you can make pretty much anything with a welder. But that would require some hefty re-engineering and cost.

The most common practice is to fit parabolic leaf springs. These plus good shocks will give a good ride.


Another vehicle you might want to consider is the Santana PS-10. Sanatana used to build a variant of the Land Rover under licence. However it is improved in many ways over the factory Land Rover product.

The PS-10 is the last evolution of the 109. And trumps the Defender 110 on many areas. A long wheel base vehicle will also be a better tow rig.

Sanatana's are also very good value for money compared to a Defender.

santana-ps-10-07.jpg
 
I love series myself, owned three, bought and sold several others, and every intention of getting others in future! :)

Does seem to me that no-one is reading OPs post re towing, though. He does say that he may wish to tow a horse box, and trailers, on occasion. AFAIK series can only legally tow 2metric tonnes nowadays, although years ago we used to tow far more with them. This would rule out all but small horse boxes and trailers.
 
Series LR manual states 2000kg for single axle trailer and 3500kg for twin axle.

Imo leaf springs are OK in good condition and greased (most aren't but that's not their fault).

11" twin leading drums are more than up to the job. My 2a would readily lock up on all 4 corners even when towing weight.

I wouldn't readily chose to go back to a 2 1/4 diesel for everyday use but a petrol's ok even on today's main roads and motorways. No idea what the Montego lump is like but any diesel is loud in a Series.

They leak but it doesn't really matter.

Later 90s/110s/Fenders are a little more refined, but not much with later engines making the biggest difference.

The 2.5 n/a and 19j lumps aren't much of an improvement, Tdi's were a big step up and Td5s up again though the Td5s come with fancy electronics which some (me) aren't so keen on and while reliable repairs are more specialised and expensive.

The puma's are more about emission compliance than user improvements though they do the job well enough.

Anything 90/110 onwards comes with a premium price tag attached.

They also leak but less......but it matters more.

Discos are definitely worth a look, early ones effectively a Defender with a car type body and interior and just as capable.
The differences get more exaggerated D2 onwards and the loss of a central locking diff puts them in a different catagory, for me at least, but traction control is pretty impressive.

These also leak but you might not know until you realise the body is only several layers of paint.

They've all got their faults and if you were just using your head you probably wouldn't be thinking about any of them :)
 
blue beasty said:
Series LR manual states 2000kg for single axle trailer and 3500kg for twin axle.

Imo leaf springs are OK in good condition and greased (most aren't but that's not their fault).
Click to expand...

But has the legislation changed since the manual was written? I have towed 3500kg with them years ago, and was under the impression that it was legal at the time, but all the landrover buyers guides now say they only tow 2000kg. I was surprised to read it myself. :confused:

Leafs are fine, as you suggest, few grease them which is why some find them very harsh! :D
I have always found a series perfectly pleasant to drive in every way, although regular stops on long journeys for comfort. Towing is a slow business with standard engines as well, but you get there in the end. :)
 
Turboman said:
But has the legislation changed since the manual was written? I have towed 3500kg with them years ago, and was under the impression that it was legal at the time, but all the landrover buyers guides now say they only tow 2000kg. I was surprised to read it myself. :confused:

Leafs are fine, as you suggest, few grease them which is why some find them very harsh! :D
I have always found a series perfectly pleasant to drive in every way, although regular stops on long journeys for comfort. Towing is a slow business with standard engines as well, but you get there in the end. :)
Click to expand...

Pretty sure any legislation changes won't effect anything.

The plated weight whether marked as MAM, max train weight,GVW or whatever is whatever it says it is.

2 tonnes behind an 88 downhill is bloody scary though :eek:
 
blue beasty said:
Pretty sure any legislation changes won't effect anything.

The plated weight whether marked as MAM, max train weight,GVW or whatever is whatever it says it is.

2 tonnes behind an 88 downhill is bloody scary though :eek:
Click to expand...
Hope you are right, never know what the eurocrats will be up to next.
I have towed over three tonnes with 88, shouldn't be too bad if the trailer overruns are properly set up. Slow enough on the uphills anorl! :(
Towed a 109 diesel on an Ifor flatbed from Brum to Surrey once, that took a while! :D
 
I tow an Ifor Williams 505 horse box with my swb petrol s3. With the horse it's at 2000kg. It's just about at its power limit, chugging at max 40mph. Don't bother me, but wifey n chief horsey person hates it. I wouldn't like to try twin axle at 3,500kg. Mind I did tow it with 32 bales of hay. Wifey uses the Santa Fe, pretty good fur m'way towing. Landy for quieter roads .
 
John S said:
I tow an Ifor Williams 505 horse box with my swb petrol s3. With the horse it's at 2000kg. It's just about at its power limit, chugging at max 40mph. Don't bother me, but wifey n chief horsey person hates it. I wouldn't like to try twin axle at 3,500kg. Mind I did tow it with 32 bales of hay. Wifey uses the Santa Fe, pretty good fur m'way towing. Landy for quieter roads .
Click to expand...


32? Errrm...

mobile055_zpslaintqnt.jpg


:eek::D:D
 
Youser Youser beasty. That's impressive. Now yet talking. How far did you travel. If you n your good landy can do it then so can I
 
John S said:
Youser Youser beasty. That's impressive. Now yet talking. How far did you travel. If you n your good landy can do it then so can I
Click to expand...

That's not my lady good or otherwise :p

Not far, about 10 miles but I'll admit it seemed further.....especially the bit through the town centre :eek:

It did take foot down low 2nd to get up the last piece of lane to the farm. On tarmac but wheels spinning on the gravel. :confused:
 
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