Weber conversion stud problem

Suggestions please.

Weber Conversion Kit :: 82 CJ8

Instructions say to "Remove the manifold studs from the intake
manifold. Double nut each stud to remove. .. DOUBLE NUTTING MAY RUIN
THE NUTS BUT WILL NOT DAMAGE THE STUDS"

Well -- these studs don't want to come loose. None of them.

No obvious corrosion. Never been off before. You can see them at:
http://www.mlpsoftware.com/cj8/

All I have tried is "double nutting" them. And they are sitting in
little pools of "Liquid Wrench' for the moment.

I don't have any special tools. Would rather use patience and seek
advice before using brute force and making the situation worse.

Any advice on what I should be doing?

Thanks .....



-----
Michael Pomeroy
[email protected]

Michael Pomeroy wrote:

>Suggestions please.
>
>Weber Conversion Kit :: 82 CJ8
>
>Instructions say to "Remove the manifold studs from the intake
>manifold. Double nut each stud to remove. .. DOUBLE NUTTING MAY RUIN
>THE NUTS BUT WILL NOT DAMAGE THE STUDS"
>
>Well -- these studs don't want to come loose. None of them.
>
>No obvious corrosion. Never been off before. You can see them at:
>http://www.mlpsoftware.com/cj8/
>
>All I have tried is "double nutting" them. And they are sitting in
>little pools of "Liquid Wrench' for the moment.
>
>I don't have any special tools. Would rather use patience and seek
>advice before using brute force and making the situation worse.
>
>Any advice on what I should be doing?
>
>Thanks .....
>
>
>
>-----
>Michael Pomeroy
>[email protected]
>
>
There's a special tool called a stud remover. They are hard to find,
but usually worth it. Also, try heating each stud until pretty hot, not
red hot. Let them cool. Do that a couple of times. Often the heating
and cooling cycles will break the threads loose. The original installer
may have used Loctite Red, which is released by heat. Finally, I like
to soak things like that in PB Blaster penetrating oil.

--
..boB
97 H-D FXDWG - Turbocharged!!
01 Dakota Quad Sport, 5.9/Auto/4x4
83 GMC Jimmy (beater)
66 427SC Cobra Replica - Project
66 Mustang coupe - Daily Driver



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Try Kroil, I have never had a bolt resist it's magic.
Unfortunatly, I believe it is mail order only.
http://www.kanolabs.com/


On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 00:32:49 GMT, Michael Pomeroy <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Suggestions please.
>
>Weber Conversion Kit :: 82 CJ8
>
>Instructions say to "Remove the manifold studs from the intake
>manifold. Double nut each stud to remove. .. DOUBLE NUTTING MAY RUIN
>THE NUTS BUT WILL NOT DAMAGE THE STUDS"
>
>Well -- these studs don't want to come loose. None of them.
>
>No obvious corrosion. Never been off before. You can see them at:
>http://www.mlpsoftware.com/cj8/
>
>All I have tried is "double nutting" them. And they are sitting in
>little pools of "Liquid Wrench' for the moment.
>
>I don't have any special tools. Would rather use patience and seek
>advice before using brute force and making the situation worse.
>
>Any advice on what I should be doing?
>
>Thanks .....
>
>
>
>-----
>Michael Pomeroy
>[email protected]

The smooth part of the stud may be tensioned against the head (if there is a
smooth section with a chamfer where it turns into thread) Use a 1/4" spacer
or a stack of washer. Tighten first nut against the spacer to torque value
in manual. Install second nut, and tighten. Make sure not to tighten the
first one anymore. Now loosen both. Makes it easier to loosen. The best is
to use a stud removal tool, but some types of them will damage the stud.

"Michael Pomeroy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> Suggestions please.
>
> Weber Conversion Kit :: 82 CJ8
>
> Instructions say to "Remove the manifold studs from the intake
> manifold. Double nut each stud to remove. .. DOUBLE NUTTING MAY RUIN
> THE NUTS BUT WILL NOT DAMAGE THE STUDS"
>
> Well -- these studs don't want to come loose. None of them.
>
> No obvious corrosion. Never been off before. You can see them at:
> http://www.mlpsoftware.com/cj8/
>
> All I have tried is "double nutting" them. And they are sitting in
> little pools of "Liquid Wrench' for the moment.
>
> I don't have any special tools. Would rather use patience and seek
> advice before using brute force and making the situation worse.
>
> Any advice on what I should be doing?
>
> Thanks .....
>
>
>
> -----
> Michael Pomeroy
> [email protected]

Hot damn! (At least I think that is the technical term for ::
Success!!)

Thanks to each who posted suggestions.

I tried several things. Details below for anybody who cares to see
what it took.

So two follow up questions, please:
1 -- Now that it is time to put in the new studs should I use anything
at all on the threads? Any lubricant; any sealer; anything? Anything
that will help or be harmful? Or should I just place the new studs in
dry?
2 -- The new studs are completely threaded from one end to the other.
I assume I must double nut them to get them back in, right? Then how
tight; how far do I try to get the new studs into the manifold?

How I did it:
1: Got some PB Blaster. Every 1/2 hour or so when I could - from
yesterday to this afternoon - I applied more on each stud and rapped
on each stud with a hammer.

2: Went to Sear's and bought their "Stud Remover". It looks like
this tool might work well for slightly larger studs, but was useless
for these.

3: Cleaned up all the oil and flammables as best I could in the
target area. Put heat on the aluminum only. Tried double nutting --
nothing. Nuts would always turn prior to stud breaking loose.

4: Took a third nut and tightened it down to the top nut. Heated
aluminum again -- turned very hard on the first stud -- with a fairly
loud "crack" it broke loose and threaded out with just my fingers.

5: Repeated my "triple nutting" technique on the remaining studs.
Each was easier than the previous one and, by the time I got to the
fourth I didn't even have to apply additional heat.

So one more big sigh of appreciation to each of you!!

Mike


On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 00:32:49 GMT, Michael Pomeroy <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Suggestions please.
>
>Weber Conversion Kit :: 82 CJ8
>
>Instructions say to "Remove the manifold studs from the intake
>manifold. Double nut each stud to remove. .. DOUBLE NUTTING MAY RUIN
>THE NUTS BUT WILL NOT DAMAGE THE STUDS"
>
>Well -- these studs don't want to come loose. None of them.
>
>No obvious corrosion. Never been off before. You can see them at:
>http://www.mlpsoftware.com/cj8/
>
>All I have tried is "double nutting" them. And they are sitting in
>little pools of "Liquid Wrench' for the moment.
>
>I don't have any special tools. Would rather use patience and seek
>advice before using brute force and making the situation worse.
>
>Any advice on what I should be doing?
>
>Thanks .....
>
>
>
>-----
>Michael Pomeroy
>[email protected]


-----
Michael Pomeroy
[email protected]

Michael Pomeroy wrote:

>Hot damn! (At least I think that is the technical term for ::
>Success!!)
>
>Thanks to each who posted suggestions.
>
>I tried several things. Details below for anybody who cares to see
>what it took.
>
>So two follow up questions, please:
>1 -- Now that it is time to put in the new studs should I use anything
>at all on the threads? Any lubricant; any sealer; anything? Anything
>that will help or be harmful? Or should I just place the new studs in
>dry?
>2 -- The new studs are completely threaded from one end to the other.
>I assume I must double nut them to get them back in, right? Then how
>tight; how far do I try to get the new studs into the manifold?
>
>
Congrats! Glad you got them out without major surgery.

1. I would use a little Loctite Blue. That's what I put on carb studs
in alum or iron manifolds.

2. Yes, you'll need to double nut them to seat them. But remember that
studs don't really need to be tight into the hole. After cleaning up
the holes with a tap, put the stud in until it bottoms, and then back
off about a turn. Immediatly drop the Weber on the studs to make sure
they are long enough. The bolt/stud really only needs to be in the hole
1.5 times it's diameter.

--
..boB
97 H-D FXDWG - Turbocharged!!
01 Dakota Quad Sport, 5.9/Auto/4x4
83 GMC Jimmy (beater)
66 427SC Cobra Replica - Project
66 Mustang coupe - Daily Driver



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

Looks like I'm again stopped.

Appears as if the conversion kit contains incorrect studs.

The replacement studs are threaded quite differently. They are
"completely" threaded, which is not a problem and is required in the
conversion -- but they will not thread into the manifold; nor will the
nuts that came with them thread onto the old studs (which they would
have to do if the threading were the same).

(btw: the new studs are required because the new base plate has
threads that are like the new studs .. so the old studs are not
compatible and will not work.)

You can see detailed comparison stud photos at:
http://www.mlpsoftware.com/cj8/jeepcarb

This Weber conversion kit was purchased from 4WD and says it is for
"Jeep Models Originally equipped with the Carter 2BBL BBD Carburetor
1978-1990". I'm the original owner, so I know this vehicle has not
been modified

So Jeep isn't going anywhere now; I guess my next step is to call 4WD.

Any suggestions as to who might carry correctly (completely) threaded
studs of the proper length like these?

Any other thoughts or suggestions are appreciated ....

Mike



On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 00:32:49 GMT, Michael Pomeroy <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Suggestions please.
>
>Weber Conversion Kit :: 82 CJ8
>
>Instructions say to "Remove the manifold studs from the intake
>manifold. Double nut each stud to remove. .. DOUBLE NUTTING MAY RUIN
>THE NUTS BUT WILL NOT DAMAGE THE STUDS"
>
>Well -- these studs don't want to come loose. None of them.
>
>No obvious corrosion. Never been off before. You can see them at:
>http://www.mlpsoftware.com/cj8/
>
>All I have tried is "double nutting" them. And they are sitting in
>little pools of "Liquid Wrench' for the moment.
>
>I don't have any special tools. Would rather use patience and seek
>advice before using brute force and making the situation worse.
>
>Any advice on what I should be doing?
>
>Thanks .....
>
>
>
>-----
>Michael Pomeroy
>[email protected]


-----
Michael Pomeroy
[email protected]

Success! Thanks so much to people who offered good suggestions!!

Cranked up immediately and ran better than before; though the tune is
certainly wrong for the new setup; flatspots and loss of power are
gone!! (Year old gas probably doesn't help much either?!)

I know ignorance isn't an excuse, but maybe it is an explanation.

The new pieces (plural) don't go together like the old piece
(singular); and I was fixated on how the old one had come apart.

I figured there must be something that "I" was missing, so I laid all
the parts from disassembly and all the parts from the new conversion
kit out on the garage floor -- got what instructions came with the
kit, and began "playing around".

In hindsite the instructions were accurate, if not entirely clear.

Here is the deal:

The old carb sat on a single spacer/adaptor. Stud's held this adaptor
to the intake manifold; passing up through the base of the carburetor
where nuts held the entire assembly in place.

With this particular conversion kit, the Weber sits on a two piece
spacer/adaptor with three gaskets. The first adaptor attaches to the
manifold with "allen head bolts". These "bolts" are countersunk in
the adaptor on the top side so they remain flush. The second plate
attaches on top of and to the first plate with different "four
mounting studs", also allen head. Into this second plate the studs
(that's what the instructions call them) or threaded rods (you can see
both at: http://www.mlpsoftware.com/cj8/jeepcarb/ ) are placed. Then
the carb itself is set on these four; secured with nuts and washers.

Hope this all made sense to anybody who is interested -- and thanks
for the help.

Mike

On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 17:07:50 GMT, Michael Pomeroy <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Looks like I'm again stopped.
>
>Appears as if the conversion kit contains incorrect studs.
>
>The replacement studs are threaded quite differently. They are
>"completely" threaded, which is not a problem and is required in the
>conversion -- but they will not thread into the manifold; nor will the
>nuts that came with them thread onto the old studs (which they would
>have to do if the threading were the same).
>
>(btw: the new studs are required because the new base plate has
>threads that are like the new studs .. so the old studs are not
>compatible and will not work.)
>
>You can see detailed comparison stud photos at:
>http://www.mlpsoftware.com/cj8/jeepcarb
>
>This Weber conversion kit was purchased from 4WD and says it is for
>"Jeep Models Originally equipped with the Carter 2BBL BBD Carburetor
>1978-1990". I'm the original owner, so I know this vehicle has not
>been modified
>
>So Jeep isn't going anywhere now; I guess my next step is to call 4WD.
>
>Any suggestions as to who might carry correctly (completely) threaded
>studs of the proper length like these?
>
>Any other thoughts or suggestions are appreciated ....
>
>Mike
>
>
>
>On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 00:32:49 GMT, Michael Pomeroy <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>Suggestions please.
>>
>>Weber Conversion Kit :: 82 CJ8
>>
>>Instructions say to "Remove the manifold studs from the intake
>>manifold. Double nut each stud to remove. .. DOUBLE NUTTING MAY RUIN
>>THE NUTS BUT WILL NOT DAMAGE THE STUDS"
>>
>>Well -- these studs don't want to come loose. None of them.
>>
>>No obvious corrosion. Never been off before. You can see them at:
>>http://www.mlpsoftware.com/cj8/
>>
>>All I have tried is "double nutting" them. And they are sitting in
>>little pools of "Liquid Wrench' for the moment.
>>
>>I don't have any special tools. Would rather use patience and seek
>>advice before using brute force and making the situation worse.
>>
>>Any advice on what I should be doing?
>>
>>Thanks .....
>>
>>
>>
>>-----
>>Michael Pomeroy
>>[email protected]
>
>
>-----
>Michael Pomeroy
>[email protected]


-----
Michael Pomeroy
[email protected]