Vegatable Oil in a Series 3 Landy

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Miniman

Miniman

New Member
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1,486
Location
North Yorkshire Skipton
I have been looking into running my landy on a 50% / 50% mix of vegatable oil and derv has anybody got any ideas or views about this.

I have been reading about this mix and all the reviews about it say that there landy is quieter and more power plus the life of the engine is longer with less hastle.

NOTE IF YOU ARE THINKING ON DOING THIS YOU MUST REGISTER WITH THE HM CUSTOMS AND EXCISE. THEN YOU HAVE TO PAY EVERY MONTH WITHOUT FAIL ABOUT 27PENCE PER LITER TO THEM. WHAT A CON BUT STILL ALOT CHEAPER.....:rolleyes:
 
Miniman, I run my series 3 stage 1 Land Rover on straight vegetable oil, but it's a 3.9litre Isuzu diesel. The problem with the Rover diesel is the LucasCAV rotary injection pump, and its method of pump lubrication, this can be overcome by running a dual system whereby the engine is started on diesel and switched over to vegetable oil ,when the engine and oil is hot enough, it is also necessary to switch back to diesel before the engine is switched off, so the diesel engine is always started with diesel.
From what I've read, some European countries encourage this and there is no tax imposed (notably Germany). Vegetable oil emits no sulphur, no carcinogenic particulates and half the nitrous oxide emissions, so it would be in the British government's interest to promote this as an alternative fuel, if they are serious about air pollution.
Luckily they are leaving us alone here in Australia, and I don't think they would impose a tax because the greenies would get on their backs.
Diesel fuel here costs $5.80 a gallon, I am collecting 135 litres a week and have about 3 years supply stored in 44 gallon(200litre) drums.
I hope this helps, if you have any more questions, please don't hesitate to ask.
Kind regards...Ron
 
Sri lankan
I made up a dual fuel system and ran 4 metres of copper pipe through the waste oil tank to heat up the vegetable oil, I switch over using a 3 port ball valve with a tap on the return line to direct the fuel into it's appropriate tank.
You will be better off blending the fuel if your Land Rover is fitted with a Lucas CAV injection pump.
I found on vegetable oil the engine is not as loud and there is no power loss at all.
A good site to check out is greasecar forum , check my posts under aussieron there too, also frybrid forum is a good site, between the two they have a lot of information available.

Kind regards....Ron
 
When I use veg oil all I do is mix it 50/50 in my normal diesel. It starts fine hot or cold. We have had some frosty mornings and it still starts fine this way....:D

Mine is a CAV Rotory pump
 
I read all the previous posts on this & am sorely tempted (but like a lot of people I'd guess, really nervous about pouring a load of veg' oil in me precious Landy). Aussierons conversion does sound pretty straightforward (read it a while back & it does sound even more economical), but I've so many other jobs still lined up this 50/50 mix, no hassle idea does sound great.

So, Miniman, (not having a pop, just asking) on the one hand you're asking for opinions on this & on the other you say you're doing it/have done it, which? If someone can assure me definitively that pouring a 50/50 mix of the veggie stuff in my tank isn't going to hamper cold starts or trash me motor I'll take the plunge..............Oh, and of course I'll inform HMC&E on a monthly basis................!

Lastly, will rape oil be the same? I read around these parts recently that Tescos are doing bucketloads of it dead cheap at the mo'?

Ever hopeful of saving a few quid,
Marcus.
 
Marcus,

I've been following this line for some time and like you am, as yet, unconvinced. I read this site recently and found it fairly informative: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html

Long and short of it is there seems no end of anecdotal evidence but nothing long term on what it may actualy do. My gut feeling is that the older mechanical engines would probobly stand up to the abuse better. However, I'd want eyes on an actual engine that had been running on any mix for some time before I stuck it in my landy.

I do believe that if something sounds too good to be true it generally is :)

edited to add missing word
 
ok, can someone please fill me in on this. as i read it if i put 5 gal of diesel in my tank then add 5 gal of veg oil to the tank, drive down a bumpy road to give it a bit of a mix then drive as normal everything will be honky dory as long as i send a cheque to c+e.
 
All I can say to you lot is yes it works in my series diesel without a problem apart from when greenlaning people keep feeling hungry....lol

I just throw a tenner of fuel in the tank then throw 9 Litre of Morrisions own brand Veg Oil and it runs quieter more power and I am not harming the earth HALF as much. Trust me it works....

If you are still un decided then put 3 Litre in after a £10 of the expensive stuff (DIESEL). Just do it and stop thinking about it......

Start with a little and just try it. Once you have used the cheep stuff the first time you will never go back....

But obviously we are all only going to use this OFF ROAD. We would not dream of using it on the road now would we without paying the GOV.
Anyway we have to pay them 27.9p per litre so that they can continue to clean the air for us.......:rolleyes:
 
seen as petrol and diesel cant be seperated once they are mixed together would the same apply to petrol and cooking oil? if you put 1 litre of unleaded into 10 ltr of cooking oil, this is a 10% mix which is still viable in a petrol/diesel mix so therefore it would reduce the viscosity of the cooking oil making it run through the injectors and the pump, or am i trying to be a scientist and getting too far above my own head? :)
 
Miniman said:
Hell yeh my 2.25D id alot better on hills with veg oil. More power. I do a 50/50 mix. never do a 100% mix it to thick for a injector pump unless its warmed up....
Click to expand...
how do you get 100% MIX and if we squeeze wheresdildo747 will we get vegetable oil out
 
all the info i have off the net tells me that using the lucas cav is very dodgy. it just doesnt like oil. one guy ruined his pump in just 300 miles! so beware.

much safer to use the bosch type pump. (inc the japanese versions).

some cars are very tolerent as oil users. the 75-85 (approx) mercedes are well known to be able to use the oil virtually straight from the tank. these cars are well known to have done thousands of miles with no problems.

if u still wanna try it then the oil must be heated. a 2 tank system is the way to do it. start up and shut down on derv. once the engine is hot then switch to vege oil. easier to use the oil in summer. winter causes extra problems.
prob best to use a different mixture according to the season.
 
Yes if you are running SVO... Thats 100% mix. I have been running mine 6 Months on a 50/50 mix without any problems what so ever. Mine is a CAV DPA pump. If you read all the sites that tell you about a 50/50 mix you will see that they support it in any old motor. If you are running it straight (SVO) you need a heater alot of peopel wrap a copper tube arround the exhaust once to get buy this problem. Its alot of hastel to run straight svo as you have to switch over to diesel a mile before you switch it off. You have to have 2 tanks you need a valve which switches from diesel to svo and another to switch the return to each tank.....Not for me. Alot of messing about when you have to pay the GOV 27p for every litre you use...:cool:
 
Oh well. Some people.

Read this if you want to be silly....


Do not simply put 100% SVO into your fuel tank and set out on a long drive. Not only is this illegal, it would also be very stupid. Before you drive on the road with a vehicle powered by any form of un-taxed hydrocarbon fuel you must register with HM Customs & Excise as a substitute fuel producer. But also you should test your engine first without risking any blockage in the fuel supply system. Most problems will be discovered not when doing the tests but when you try and re-start the engine from cold. It is therefore a good idea to plan when you will carry out the tests, for example on a Friday or Saturday, so you will have plenty of time to deal with any refueling if the engine will not start having been left out in the cold over night. Do not test the engine when you have to use the vehicle for an urgent journey first thing the next morning!
To do the test you will need some clean new vegetable oil (preferably rape seed oil), an empty plastic milk or vegetable oil bottle, and two short pieces of fuel pipe. Start the engine and let it warm up. Identify the fuel supply and return pipes that run from the fuel tank into the engine compartment. The supply pipe will run to the fuel filter and then to the injector pump. The return line will run from the injector pump back to the fuel tank. Find a safe place where the empty bottle can be mounted, and fit a tie or some string or wire to keep it safely without risk of tipping. Do not mount it where it can touch the exhaust or the hot parts of the exhaust manifold. Stop the engine and remove the fuel lines from the fittings and slide on the two sections of fuel pipe so the ends of the supply and return can be inserted into the bottle. Fill the bottle three quarters full with rape seed oil. You are now ready to carry out the test. I suggest you have someone else with you to help operate the starter from the cab.
Restart the engine in the normal way. It should be already warm, in other words run the engine till it is warm before disconnecting the fuel pipe links. The fuel pump should suck through the new fuel and any air that may have been included into the fuel lines. Try to avoid letting air into the pipes, but in all engines I have tested the pump sucked the air pockets through easily without stopping the engine. Do not rev up the engine excessively, there is no need. Just listen to any change in the engine tick-over noise, and general 'clatter' of the engine. Smell the exhaust and you should notice a sweet appetizing smell and not the acrid smell of burning derv. In all the engines I have tested this way, the noise of the engine changes, and the sound is smother and becomes more of a 'grunt' than a rattle.
You may see a white / yellow froth build up on the surface of the fuel in the plastic bottle. This is caused by little bubbles in the return oil as a result of compression and then sudden de-compression. At first the vegetable oil is too thick at normal temperatures to allow these tiny bubbles to disperse, but they will clear as soon as the temperature of the oil increases. The appearance of this white froth is normal when starting from cold. It should disappear after about 15 minutes of running. If the engine does not seem to run well, then heat some vegetable oil in a saucepan on the kitchen stove till it is about 100 deg centigrade (it just stops 'popping'), and then put this in the milk tub. If this improves the engine performance then you will definitely need a fuel pre-heater.
testing.jpg


If the test seems to be going well, then check the fuel level in the plastic tub, and and check the engine temperature, and close the bonnet, and do a test drive. Do not drive on the road as this is illegal using untaxed fuel. Find a private road, beach or car park somewhere. If after this test you feel the engine will work well on SVO then try connecting the fuel lines through the normal fuel filter and fuel tank. Fill the tank with 50% Derv and 50% SVO, and repeat the test but this time running from the fuel tank. Gradually increase the proportion of SVO. In doing this test you may reach the point at which the performance of the engine degrades. You may find that the engine will not want to start on SVO when it is completely cold, but it will run OK if it is already warm. If this is the case then try adding about 5% by volume of kerosene. If this improves performance and cold starting, then you will need to fit a fuel pre-heater. Do not leave the vehicle in cold conditions with more than 50% SVO mix in the fuel tank, without adding a dash of kerosene, in case the engine will not restart from cold. If you do experience starting problems then disconnect the fuel pipes again, and start from neat DERV in the milk bottle until the engine starts and warms up. Then add a bit more kerosene to the fuel in the main tank.
Careful observation when carrying out these tests will enable to to decide what level of permanent conversion is necessary to enable your engine to burn SVO. Some engines need no alterations - Mercedes engines for example, and some like my VW Passat need hardly any. Generally, it seems that Mercedes and VW engines are especially accepting of bio-fuels, and SVO. But other engines may run on SVO if there is a heated fuel filter or pre-heater.
The first adaptation to try may be the installation of a heated fuel filter. I have used one removed from a Peugeot car found in a scraper. It was in a dreadful condition, and needed to be stripped and thoroughly cleaned. It was fitted on the bulkhead next to the normal fuel filter, and connected to the water supply to the cab heater. The fuel passes through the middle core of the filter and down to the heating element in the base, which is heated by the water coolant from the cylinder block. The hot fuel then rises up through the filter papers and goes to the injector pump. The main advantage of this form of heating is to allow any animal fats in waste vegetable fat to pass through the filter. These stearines tend to solid at normal temperatures, and will block normal un-heated fuel filters (as I know from my own experience!).
If you still have problems starting, or running on SVO, then you may need a heat exchanger. I made one from standard copper plumbing fittings. I am now experimenting with different designs. My first trial design was fitted into the maim hot water pipe from the engine to the radiator. This may not be the best solution, as this pipe only floods with hot water after the engine has warmed up and the thermostat has opened. My next designs are fitted into the water circuit that provides immediate heat to the cab and screen warming system. This is not affected by the thermostat, and makes use of the heat from the engine as quickly as possible. Even with a pre-heater, you may find the engine does not start well or does not run well until the heat exchanger is warmed up. It may be necessary to run the engine whilst stationary for about 10 minutes until all the water pipes and the fuel is sufficiently warm. I am designing a thermostatically regulated electric heater to heat up a small quantity of fuel immediately before it enters the injector pump. This will hopefully overcome any problems in starting, even in cold conditions

Answer to your next question is yes I do and no I dont.....work it out for yourselfs....
 
Very interesting, keep us posted to see how your landy handles......im interested but probably have to wait about 5 years for vegetable oil to get to my country :(
 
Hahahahah...that has to be the 55th person asks me that....:eek: ....costa rica is a small country that is between panama and nicaragua. Our population is of about 4 million habitants, and about 2 million hyundai excels :( ...its about 51100 square kilometeres in size and here's a pic so that you can see where i am....it's the one circled, from top to bottom it goes like this mexico, honduras, nicaragua and then Costa rica, then panama and the famous darien gap with colombia
 

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