uncle charle's pump timing

Remember, FIRST blast on clear timing marks NOW before you undo anything!
These will be YOUR timing marks.
Scribe good marks on the pump flange and the timing cover casing so you can always get back to where you are now. That's the worst it can get.

You do NOT need to pin the pump, lock the flywheel or any of that stuff for this job. You only need to do that when timing the pump from "first principles" and you are not doing that. You are "fine tuning" the timing, and that is a process that is NEVER undertaken by the engine makers or service dealers. They don't care about you, their fitters don't have the skills, and they won't be driving the cars, so why would they bother?

They just set all engines to fixed marks, and send them out. This means that some will be OK, some a bit better, and some really lousy. They just don't care.

But you have the time, the inclination and the incentive ..... so GO ! You might be amazed how well you can get your motor running if you sort the timing out exactly right for YOUR engine.

After you have marked the pump and casing, sort out the spanners you will need. Carry them with you in a wee bag.

Every time you make any adjustment, you will be rotating the whole injection pump about 1 to 2 mm on the flange one way or the other. Try to move it in small steps about that much each time.

You MUST loosen all 4 injector pipes at BOTH ENDS, just enough to let the pipes move a tad, and then loosen the three pump flange nuts just enough to let the pump move. There may also be a longer nut and bolt to loosen at the bracket to the rear of the pump. DO NOT loosen any more than you need to. Move the pump as required, and it should move easily. Check the marks are now 1 to 2mm apart, and clamp the three pump flange nuts snugly. Don't over-tighten them. Now nip up the injection pipes at the bottom end, and whirl the motor over on the starter till fuel spits at each injector pipe end. Tighten at the injector pipes. Start up, and test drive.

When the engine is warm, deck the pedal at low revs and you will know instantly if the clatter is cured. If it is, you will probably find that the engine goes a lot better than before. If it still clatters, it will be less, so repeat the adjustment. The nearer you get to "feeling good", make smaller moves of the pump.

To ADVANCE the timing move the top of the pump TOWARDS the engine.
To RETARD the timing move the top of the pump AWAY FROM the engine.

If the engine clatters loudly when you deck the pedal, RETARD the timing a little. ONE move of 2mm could easily be enough to do it.

Basically, what you want is the engine timing set JUST before the clatter starts, by the smallest amount. Generally that will be the best setting for power and economy, and many of you may be pleasantly surprised at the outcome if you try this. It might just take you half a dozen sessions, small moves at a time, but it will be worth it.

How about you rush out and do this and let us all know how it pans out?

CharlesY

Once again we have to thank uncle CharlesY for this valuable information.

Shame he still cant get to LandyZone...?!!!

once you have read the above post by slob, This write up is specific to the 300TDi engine, the principle is the same but the method is slightly different.

you will not need to crack the injector pipes or the bolts securing the injector pump, you will be working in the access hatch only.

you will need just a couple of tools for this job and a bit of patience.

1. a 10mm socket and mini ratchet + extension
2. a 27mm socket or use your wheel brace!
3. a 22mm socket or ofset ring spanner
4. a selection of different sized drills
5. a wading plug

the idea of this is to turn the injection pump shaft to the optimum point to get your timing spot on...

the following step is not nessisarily needed but you may want to factory reset your timing...

Take a wading plug and drill a 5mm hole straight through the middle of it in a drill press. This will be your 'Top Dead Center' (*TDC) tool, used in coujunction with a locking pin on the pump pulley.



you will use this TDC tool in the wading plug hole in the bell housing. There is a 5mm notch cut in the flywheel which you will lock the engine with the 5mm drill bit at TDC.

To lock the engine crank at the flywheel, first remove the access hatch in the front of the timing cover.



then rotate the engine by hand using a 27mm socket on a breaker bar:



until you can lock the pump with a 9.5mm drill bit in the 11o'clock position:



then climb underneath the car with a torch and look up the hole for the wading plug if you can see the notch in the flywheel you've got it first time!
if not, then you'll have to remove the drill from locking the injection pump and turn the crank again till it lines up again. then have another look.

you may have to get someone else to wiggle your braker bar back and forth on the main pulley to get the drill bit to lock home.Once you can lock the flywheel with your tool you can turn to the injection pump.

You may not be able to get the 9.5mm drill bit in to lock the pump, try differnt drill sizes until one slots all the way though, if this is the case then your timing is slightly out from the factory default. (or your belt is slightly warn/stretched!)

now use CharlesY's advice to advance and retard the timing by slackening off the three bolts that surround the pump main shaft bolt and turning the shaft itself using your ring spanner, working here you will be holding the drive belt pully still, and to ADVANCE the timing you will rotate the main pump shaft bolt CLOCKWISE - that is, the pump injection will start sooner than before

you may want to swap to a smaller diameter drill to act as a stop guage when you rotate the main shaft... make a note of what size drill bit you use so that you can use different sizes to create your incremements and log the results.



remember to tighten up the three bolts in the access hatch (torque of 25NM) before reassembly and to remove your timing pin (drill bit) from the wading plug before you attempt to start the engine.

It is then just a question of a little trial and error adjustment to get the timing spot on...

nice one guys did it today like a diffrent bus quite smooth pulls like a train who would think that such a small adjustmet would make all that diffrence
thanks a lot chaps i takes me hat of to you

disco-andy said:

nice one guys did it today like a diffrent bus quite smooth pulls like a train who would think that such a small adjustmet would make all that diffrence
thanks a lot chaps i takes me hat of to you

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As I said, it's a simple enough job, BUT, the factory doesn't have time to do it, and the main stealers don't give a **** and their fitters are useless anyway and don't care either.

YOU are the only person who CARES, and who is prepared to take the trouble to do it, possibly a few times, and get it right.

Trial and error process this.

You may find the Landy does better on fuel MPG too.
(But not if you have it decked everywhere you go!)

CharlesY

Hello chaps..did this yesterday, got it back to the factory setting. I gave it a go 'cos I thought it took a bit longer to start than it should. Anyway, it's worse now. So, I'm after a quick tip as to which way to go to start with.....
advance or retard the timing?

DOes it make a horrible diesel Cracking noise when you hit the throttle?

If it does the injection is TOO ADVANCED - so you RETARD it a bit at a time.

It is more likely the other way round, that the injection is already set too retarded.
So you need to advance it a little at a time to the point where it JUST starts the diesel cracking noise, then you back it off (retard it) as little as possible until the cracking noise doesn't happen.

Do all this with the engine good and warm.

CharlesY

Cheers Charlesy, Seems I need to advance it then. Ta.

Afternoon , i am now in the middle of doing this but dont seem to be able to get enough adjustment on it ? probably 6-8 mm max ? if i retard the pump as far as possible it wont run but when i advance as much as poss it doesnt seem to do much and certainly cant get the cracking sound mentioned in the above posts !! Any ideas ?

Set the f**king thing properly with the special tools, pumps are set to thousands of an inch, you can't just riddle them about and hope for the best.

wammers said:

Set the f**king thing properly with the special tools, pumps are set to thousands of an inch, you can't just riddle them about and hope for the best.

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Only 2 1/2 years of time delay.

ratty said:

Only 2 1/2 years of time delay.

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Thats considered a respectable response time on the SII forum

ratty said:

Only 2 1/2 years of time delay.

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Yeah i am a slow reader. Proper advice is never too late.

Continuing on the theme of late replies...

wammers said:

Yeah i am a slow reader. Proper advice is never too late.

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Not really as he isn't setting the timing to factory set, he is fine adjusting the timing, so the tools would only get him back to where he doesn't want to be.

Just done all mine, right from first principals , then fine tuned when I did me timing belt this weekend.

one thing to say, DO not assume your flywheel lock position is TCD. mine must have had the flywheel off at some point, and not put back on right, cos its about 30degrees from TDC. work from the timing marks, and use the lock if you can.

flywheels often have more than one slot to suit different usages,they cant be put on wrong without a great deal of effort

Yep as above - there is a locating pin on the end of the crankshaft that aligns the flywheel - so it can't be in the wrong position!!

As JM says - most flywheels have more than 1 hole through the starter teeth

Hmm, not sure then, mine only has one lock point on it, which did not line up with the timing mark on the end of the crank, or the cam shaft it was either about 30 degrees out, or 180 (+30)
the locking pin I used when in the drain plug on the bottom of the flywheel housing, spring loaded thing, screw it in , turn the crank till the springy bit locks into the bit on the flywheel. unless I was doing summat wrong,

discomania said:

Continuing on the theme of late replies...



Not really as he isn't setting the timing to factory set, he is fine adjusting the timing, so the tools would only get him back to where he doesn't want to be.

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Bull**** the tools put the timing exactly where it needs to be. You can't fine adjust an injection pump by knocking it back and forth and guessing. If you can knock one back and forth and get the cam lift correct within +- 0.001" by guessing your a better man than i am Dungadin. You obviously know very little about injection pumps.