Tranny problems? Woman, help appreciated

Hello,

Hello,

I have a '91 SR5 4x4 with 152k miles on it. I got it 2 years ago. It's
been impeccably kept it's entire life. (Great shape and receipt
history etc.)

A few weeks ago I was driving along at ~40mph and a loud whine kicked
in in the rear end. Sounded like it was coming from under the center
of the bed. I immediately thought "the rear end is going". The sound
increased in intensity and pitch if speed increased, and decreased in
both as speed decreased. At a stop there was no sound. It continued
until I got home, just over a mile. When I put it in reverse to park
at the house, it made a lower-pitched whine. The next morning (and
ever since) it has made no noise at all.

Then, last night I was coming to a stop at a signal, and just as I
stopped I heard a "clunk" as if from the tranny. (This is an
automatic.) I let my foot off the break to make sure everything was
working, but the truck did not roll forward. I gave it a little gas,
but it was like it had dropped into neutral. I shifted to neutral,
then back to drive. Nothing. To 2nd gear. Nothing. Finally, back in
drive I gave it more gas and it finally caught and took off. It drove
fine all the way home. And this morning it drove fine to the
mechanics. (It seems to shift smoothly with no problems.)

The mechanic said the rear fluid was leaking into the back rear brake
(boot?) and so that brake was not working, and that to replace the
seal the bearings needed to be replaced b/c the way it's designed you
can't remove the seal w/o damaging the bearings. So he was going to do
both rear wheels -- bearings and seals. He said only about 4 oz of oil
had leaked from the "differential" <did I remember that right?> so it
isn't *likely* that was the cause of the whine, but it could have
been. Opinions on this?

This is going to run $700 and that's not even addressing the tranny
problem. He said he couldn't diagnose that b/c it was working fine and
I have to drive it until it screws up again, then drive it to a tranny
place without turning the key off so they can read any idiot lights on
the panel... but I didn't notice that any turned on.

Anyone know what rebuilt tranny costs for these? It has 33" tires and
was re-geared by a previous owner. They did a good job. (He never got
less than quality work.) Don't know if that's important to know or
not. Should I flush the tranny fluid to check for particles? I'm at a
loss.

Thanks so much.
Stacey

If it didn't move and the brakes didn't lock, this whine noise sounds like
the rear end or trans. At minimum I would pull the trans pan and check for
"stuff" in the screen and pan, this noise and clunk could also be the rear
differental, or even the transfer case. Some one is going to have to spend
some time to thoroughly diagnose this, leaks in the diff. will not cause
this.
"Stacey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello,
>
> Hello,
>
> I have a '91 SR5 4x4 with 152k miles on it. I got it 2 years ago. It's
> been impeccably kept it's entire life. (Great shape and receipt
> history etc.)
>
> A few weeks ago I was driving along at ~40mph and a loud whine kicked
> in in the rear end. Sounded like it was coming from under the center
> of the bed. I immediately thought "the rear end is going". The sound
> increased in intensity and pitch if speed increased, and decreased in
> both as speed decreased. At a stop there was no sound. It continued
> until I got home, just over a mile. When I put it in reverse to park
> at the house, it made a lower-pitched whine. The next morning (and
> ever since) it has made no noise at all.
>
> Then, last night I was coming to a stop at a signal, and just as I
> stopped I heard a "clunk" as if from the tranny. (This is an
> automatic.) I let my foot off the break to make sure everything was
> working, but the truck did not roll forward. I gave it a little gas,
> but it was like it had dropped into neutral. I shifted to neutral,
> then back to drive. Nothing. To 2nd gear. Nothing. Finally, back in
> drive I gave it more gas and it finally caught and took off. It drove
> fine all the way home. And this morning it drove fine to the
> mechanics. (It seems to shift smoothly with no problems.)
>
> The mechanic said the rear fluid was leaking into the back rear brake
> (boot?) and so that brake was not working, and that to replace the
> seal the bearings needed to be replaced b/c the way it's designed you
> can't remove the seal w/o damaging the bearings. So he was going to do
> both rear wheels -- bearings and seals. He said only about 4 oz of oil
> had leaked from the "differential" <did I remember that right?> so it
> isn't *likely* that was the cause of the whine, but it could have
> been. Opinions on this?
>
> This is going to run $700 and that's not even addressing the tranny
> problem. He said he couldn't diagnose that b/c it was working fine and
> I have to drive it until it screws up again, then drive it to a tranny
> place without turning the key off so they can read any idiot lights on
> the panel... but I didn't notice that any turned on.
>
> Anyone know what rebuilt tranny costs for these? It has 33" tires and
> was re-geared by a previous owner. They did a good job. (He never got
> less than quality work.) Don't know if that's important to know or
> not. Should I flush the tranny fluid to check for particles? I'm at a
> loss.
>
> Thanks so much.
> Stacey




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"David J and Lynne J Shepherd" <[email protected]> kindly wrote:

> If it didn't move and the brakes didn't lock,

all true...

> this whine noise sounds like
> the rear end or trans. At minimum I would pull the trans pan and check for
> "stuff" in the screen and pan, this noise and clunk could also be the rear
> differental, or even the transfer case. Some one is going to have to spend
> some time to thoroughly diagnose this, leaks in the diff. will not cause
> this.

Turns out when they were preparing to slide the rear axle back in
after replacing the bearings and seals, they wiped the inside of the
axle's opening with a shop rag and came out with fine silver on the
rag, so they called me and my Dad down to see. They had pulled the
plug on the diff (the one that's maganetized) and it was dirty with
tiny "chunks" of dirty silver which we looked at. The drained diff oil
did not feel anything close to 90 weight to any of us (way too thin),
but the guy said if it was synthetic oil it might be 90, but he
doubted it. Said the whine usually does not stop if it's the diff, but
that if it's just going in the very beginning, it could start and
stop, so that's probably what I heard a few weeks ago. Also said when
they put the new oil in, it may whine right away, or it may go for
awhile without problems, but that the rear was definitely on its way
out with all that silver and nothing was gonna stop it. Also said this
has nothing to do with the clunk or trans, and that that could run
$2400 on a 4x4.

We were going to have him pull the pan on the trans to check for
debris, but after finding the rear needs to be rebuilt, there didn't
seem to be a point. A rebuilt rear, news seals and bearings, and a
rebuilt trans is more than I can handle. I'm sick. I love this truck.
It's beautiful. `````

Thanks for your help. I appreciated it.

Stacey

Stacey ([email protected]) wrote:

> "David J and Lynne J Shepherd" <[email protected]> kindly wrote:
>
>> If it didn't move and the brakes didn't lock,
>
> all true...
>
>> this whine noise sounds like
>> the rear end or trans. At minimum I would pull the trans pan and check
>> for
>> "stuff" in the screen and pan, this noise and clunk could also be the
>> rear differental, or even the transfer case. Some one is going to have to
>> spend some time to thoroughly diagnose this, leaks in the diff. will not
>> cause this.
>
> Turns out when they were preparing to slide the rear axle back in
> after replacing the bearings and seals, they wiped the inside of the
> axle's opening with a shop rag and came out with fine silver on the
> rag, so they called me and my Dad down to see. They had pulled the
> plug on the diff (the one that's maganetized) and it was dirty with
> tiny "chunks" of dirty silver which we looked at. The drained diff oil
> did not feel anything close to 90 weight to any of us (way too thin),
> but the guy said if it was synthetic oil it might be 90, but he
> doubted it. Said the whine usually does not stop if it's the diff, but
> that if it's just going in the very beginning, it could start and
> stop, so that's probably what I heard a few weeks ago. Also said when
> they put the new oil in, it may whine right away, or it may go for
> awhile without problems, but that the rear was definitely on its way
> out with all that silver and nothing was gonna stop it. Also said this
> has nothing to do with the clunk or trans, and that that could run
> $2400 on a 4x4.
>
> We were going to have him pull the pan on the trans to check for
> debris, but after finding the rear needs to be rebuilt, there didn't
> seem to be a point. A rebuilt rear, news seals and bearings, and a
> rebuilt trans is more than I can handle. I'm sick. I love this truck.
> It's beautiful. `````
>
> Thanks for your help. I appreciated it.
>
> Stacey
Differentials don't break often and are not nearly as complex as a
transmission. I'd go to the junk yard and find a low milage wrecked truck
or car with the same differential and swap it.

Eugene <[email protected]> kindly wrote:

> Differentials don't break often and are not nearly as complex as a
> transmission. I'd go to the junk yard and find a low milage wrecked truck
> or car with the same differential and swap it.

Thanks, but it was regeared (by a previous owner) due to the larger
tires that were put on it, so I don't think a swap will do me any
good.

I can't answer your questions, but I do know you've just set the woman's
movement back 40 years.

Why would you put something like that in your header??

*Catch you on the flipside*
You probably shouldn't claim to be perfect in every way unless you
really are.

[email protected] (April Ann) kindly wrote:

> I can't answer your questions, but I do know you've just set the woman's
> movement back 40 years.
>
> Why would you put something like that in your header??

Because I am a woman, know nothing of trannys, and if I don't say I'm
a woman with a name that can be either, men sometimes assume I am male
in a forum such as this and they answer back in shorthand assuming
knowledge I don't have.

....and because there was not room in the header to add: "But I do
adjust the valves on my dirt bike, do routine maintenance on my
Harley, and know that a half-spin particle takes two complete
rotations to make it back 'round 360 degrees..."

Stacey

Well said!!
"Stacey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (April Ann) kindly wrote:
>
> > I can't answer your questions, but I do know you've just set the woman's
> > movement back 40 years.
> >
> > Why would you put something like that in your header??
>
> Because I am a woman, know nothing of trannys, and if I don't say I'm
> a woman with a name that can be either, men sometimes assume I am male
> in a forum such as this and they answer back in shorthand assuming
> knowledge I don't have.
>
> ...and because there was not room in the header to add: "But I do
> adjust the valves on my dirt bike, do routine maintenance on my
> Harley, and know that a half-spin particle takes two complete
> rotations to make it back 'round 360 degrees..."
>
> Stacey




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Stacey, you were far too easy on her. She had nothing constructive to say.
My thoughts on April Ann's "woman's movement" is about equal to a bowel
movement. The are women that are nuclear scientists, but that doesn't mean
they know anything about transmissions. You came to the right place and you
asked the right questions. You don't have to justify your mechanical
abilities to a feminist that's only here to cause problems. Just my .02. .
.. .
..
"Stacey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (April Ann) kindly wrote:
>
> > I can't answer your questions, but I do know you've just set the woman's
> > movement back 40 years.
> >
> > Why would you put something like that in your header??
>
> Because I am a woman, know nothing of trannys, and if I don't say I'm
> a woman with a name that can be either, men sometimes assume I am male
> in a forum such as this and they answer back in shorthand assuming
> knowledge I don't have.
>
> ...and because there was not room in the header to add: "But I do
> adjust the valves on my dirt bike, do routine maintenance on my
> Harley, and know that a half-spin particle takes two complete
> rotations to make it back 'round 360 degrees..."
>
> Stacey

"Stacey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (April Ann) kindly wrote:
>
> > I can't answer your questions, but I do know you've just set the woman's
> > movement back 40 years.
> >
> > Why would you put something like that in your header??
>
> Because I am a woman, know nothing of trannys, and if I don't say I'm
> a woman with a name that can be either, men sometimes assume I am male
> in a forum such as this and they answer back in shorthand assuming
> knowledge I don't have.
>
> ...and because there was not room in the header to add: "But I do
> adjust the valves on my dirt bike, do routine maintenance on my
> Harley, and know that a half-spin particle takes two complete
> rotations to make it back 'round 360 degrees..."
>
> Stacey
Ok , I'm male and know little about cars so I will put it in my simple
terms. April put women back 50 years. I treat women like that as stupid
whereas all other I treat as equal
anyway from your original posting I dont think it is the diff as if the big
gear or the one that drives it are worn then you go nowhere in any gear
unless the car moves by other means. Therefore it is the transfer case or
the transmission but I would guess the transmission. I don't know how to
adjust the valves on my dirt bike but pulling out the rear diff is not that
hard but it does require a bit of strength. If a tooth is broken then when
you pull out the drain plug you get metal chunks and its simple to go to the
wreckers to get a replacement. you can find the ratio by counting the teeth
on the big gear and divide by the teeth on the little drive gear from the
tailshaft.
Please keep asking these newbie question as it helps us all.
Ron

"Ron" <[email protected]> kindly wrote:

> Ok , I'm male and know little about cars so I will put it in my simple
> terms. April put women back 50 years. I treat women like that as stupid
> whereas all other I treat as equal
> anyway from your original posting I dont think it is the diff as if the big
> gear or the one that drives it are worn then you go nowhere in any gear
> unless the car moves by other means. Therefore it is the transfer case or
> the transmission but I would guess the transmission.

It's really helpful to me to get all of these opinions. What's
confusing is that (in terms of that clunk, then not being able to move
in any gear for a minute, then it driving fine) is that the trans does
not feel worn at all, and it hasn't acted up since. The mechanic said
this model has an 'electric shift' meaning it uses a solenoid to
shift. From what I understand if this solenoid is bad, it could cause
intermittent problems (might it have shifted to neutral and stuck
there b/c of the solenoid?) *whereas* if it's the bands or something
else, once they go, they go. (Notwithstanding early signs like lunging
when you put it in drive from a stop, or taking more than a fraction
of a second to engage when you give it gas .... none of which this
truck does.) I'm just trying to figure out what the possible
explanations are that would cause that while the tranny seems fine!

> I don't know how to
> adjust the valves on my dirt bike but pulling out the rear diff is not that
> hard but it does require a bit of strength. If a tooth is broken then when
> you pull out the drain plug you get metal chunks and its simple to go to the
> wreckers to get a replacement. you can find the ratio by counting the teeth
> on the big gear and divide by the teeth on the little drive gear from the
> tailshaft.
> Please keep asking these newbie question as it helps us all.

Thank you Ron. From what I understand newer cars (and even some 91's I
guess) have an access panel on the diff so you don't have to pull it
to check the conditiion. Now why couldn't my truck be designed like
that? IAC it's already outa the shop and in the driveway, so my
plan is to drive it around town for the next month, and if nothing
else happens, pull the magnetized diff plug again and see if there is
any new matter. If not, they think it might have been silver dust from
a bearing (b/c one of the seals was bad, so I had new seals/bearings
put on the rear). If the rear looks good at that point, I'm going to
have someone pull the tranny pan and check for material in there,
flush it and refill it.

Thanks again.
Stacey

Hello Stacey,

I had the exact thing happen with my Dodge Neon, but it got worse within a
few weeks. It was the transmission and it cost me $2,000 to replace it.With
the mileage you have on yours, you may want to cut your loses and scrap it
or sell it as is.
Al

> Hello,
>
> I have a '91 SR5 4x4 with 152k miles on it. I got it 2 years ago. It's
> been impeccably kept it's entire life. (Great shape and receipt
> history etc.)
>
> A few weeks ago I was driving along at ~40mph and a loud whine kicked
> in in the rear end. Sounded like it was coming from under the center
> of the bed. I immediately thought "the rear end is going". The sound
> increased in intensity and pitch if speed increased, and decreased in
> both as speed decreased. At a stop there was no sound. It continued
> until I got home, just over a mile. When I put it in reverse to park
> at the house, it made a lower-pitched whine. The next morning (and
> ever since) it has made no noise at all.
>
> Then, last night I was coming to a stop at a signal, and just as I
> stopped I heard a "clunk" as if from the tranny. (This is an
> automatic.) I let my foot off the break to make sure everything was
> working, but the truck did not roll forward. I gave it a little gas,
> but it was like it had dropped into neutral. I shifted to neutral,
> then back to drive. Nothing. To 2nd gear. Nothing. Finally, back in
> drive I gave it more gas and it finally caught and took off. It drove
> fine all the way home. And this morning it drove fine to the
> mechanics. (It seems to shift smoothly with no problems.)
>
> The mechanic said the rear fluid was leaking into the back rear brake
> (boot?) and so that brake was not working, and that to replace the
> seal the bearings needed to be replaced b/c the way it's designed you
> can't remove the seal w/o damaging the bearings. So he was going to do
> both rear wheels -- bearings and seals. He said only about 4 oz of oil
> had leaked from the "differential" <did I remember that right?> so it
> isn't *likely* that was the cause of the whine, but it could have
> been. Opinions on this?
>
> This is going to run $700 and that's not even addressing the tranny
> problem. He said he couldn't diagnose that b/c it was working fine and
> I have to drive it until it screws up again, then drive it to a tranny
> place without turning the key off so they can read any idiot lights on
> the panel... but I didn't notice that any turned on.
>
> Anyone know what rebuilt tranny costs for these? It has 33" tires and
> was re-geared by a previous owner. They did a good job. (He never got
> less than quality work.) Don't know if that's important to know or
> not. Should I flush the tranny fluid to check for particles? I'm at a
> loss.
>
> Thanks so much.
> Stacey