Tracking down a steering shudder

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D4MJT

New Member
Posts
11
Hi,

I'm after some help and advice tracking down a steering shudder on my P38. Symptoms of it are, a shake can develop and worsen when say, driving over cats eyes, or hitting a stretch of uneven road. It's not massively bad, but bad enough for me to notice and know it isn't right.

To help out, or at least to provide some insight into what I've done so far:

New steering damper - <500 miles ago
4 new matching cellular dynamic gas shocks - <500 miles ago
EBC Turbo Discs and GreenStuff pads - <2000 miles ago
New Track Rod Bar and Track Rod Ends - <500 miles ago
New Drag Link Bar and Drag Link Ends - <500 miles ago

It's on air suspension, which works well with no issues, bags look good, car sits level.

If anything, although the ride is noticeably firmer and better after fitting the shocks and steering damper, the shudder, when it develops, seems worse?

It's enough to pretty strongly shake / vibrate the steering wheel in your hands.

It may well tie in, but at the time the shudder develops, and over some uneven road, I can almost feel a sort of slight knock in the footwell, as if something has play in it that shouldn't lol. However, I can't find anything obvious?

Cheers!
 
D4MJT said:
Hi,

I'm after some help and advice tracking down a steering shudder on my P38. Symptoms of it are, a shake can develop and worsen when say, driving over cats eyes, or hitting a stretch of uneven road. It's not massively bad, but bad enough for me to notice and know it isn't right.

To help out, or at least to provide some insight into what I've done so far:

New steering damper - <500 miles ago
4 new matching cellular dynamic gas shocks - <500 miles ago
EBC Turbo Discs and GreenStuff pads - <2000 miles ago
New Track Rod Bar and Track Rod Ends - <500 miles ago
New Drag Link Bar and Drag Link Ends - <500 miles ago

It's on air suspension, which works well with no issues, bags look good, car sits level.

If anything, although the ride is noticeably firmer and better after fitting the shocks and steering damper, the shudder, when it develops, seems worse?

It's enough to pretty strongly shake / vibrate the steering wheel in your hands.

It may well tie in, but at the time the shudder develops, and over some uneven road, I can almost feel a sort of slight knock in the footwell, as if something has play in it that shouldn't lol. However, I can't find anything obvious?

Cheers!
Click to expand...

Drive slower ;) :D
 
Pirelli Scorpion ST's. 255/55/18 mate.

Wheel's were professionally refurbished and balanced last year, tires have been on since so I'm inclined to think it's not them.

I may well swap the fronts to the back to see if it clears, but with the knock as well I'm thinking it's more mechanical?
 
Bromsgrove Defender said:
Drive slower ;) :D
Click to expand...

:doh:

:D :D I should have mentioned speed, it's probably helpful, it usually occurs between 40-55mph?

I tend not to be driving much faster than that, as there isn't enough petrol left in the UK to get me home / the car weighs as much as a small planet.
 
D4MJT said:
Pirelli Scorpion ST's. 255/55/18 mate.

Wheel's were professionally refurbished and balanced last year, tires have been on since so I'm inclined to think it's not them.

I may well swap the fronts to the back to see if it clears, but with the knock as well I'm thinking it's more mechanical?
Click to expand...

You'd be suprised how often balance weights come adrift :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
gregc said:
Tire pressures too high. I get it on my Disco when they are too hard.
Click to expand...

I can try reducing them, what do you run?

Currently I believe I'm running 31psi front, 37psi rear?

Bromsgrove Defender said:
You'd be supprised how often balance weights come adrift :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

They were missing some weights about 2 months ago, but I had the car into my mates garage for it's MOT and I had the wheels re-balanced then.

Would worn bottom ball joints cause a steering shudder, or am I barking up the wrong tree?
 
Last edited:
D4MJT said:
I can try reducing them, what do you run?

Currently I believe I'm running 31psi front, 37psi rear?

They were missing some weights about 2 months ago, but I had the car into my mates garage for it's MOT and I had the wheels re-balanced then.

Would worn bottom ball joints cause a steering shudder, or am I barking up the wrong tree?
Click to expand...

Doesnt seem excessive to me.......well the front ones anyway and not sure reducing em to 28 would make much difference.

Do you have a properly calibrated tyre pressure gauge or go by halfauds foot pump?

I would think worn ball joints could cause a few steering issues, I would have thought the steering would feel a bit vague though as well as shuddering.

Lets just re-cap n get this straight.

This shudder happens only on rough surfaces and or cornering between 40 - 55 mph ?
 
Bromsgrove Defender said:
Doesnt seem excessive to me.......well the front ones anyway and not sure reducing em to 28 would make much difference.

Do you have a properly calibrated tyre pressure gauge or go by halfauds foot pump?

I would think worn ball joints could cause a few steering issues, I would have thought the steering would feel a bit vague though as well as shuddering.

Lets just re-cap n get this straight.

This shudder happens only on rough surfaces and or cornering between 40 - 55 mph ?
Click to expand...

Tyres are checked at least once a week, (slow puncture on the back lol) and at 2 or 3 different garages with digital gauge jobs, depending on where I stop.

Correct on the shudder, only on rough surfaces or 40-50 cornering etc.
 
D4MJT said:
Tyres are checked at least once a week, (slow puncture on the back lol) and at 2 or 3 different garages with digital gauge jobs, depending on where I stop.

Correct on the shudder, only on rough surfaces or 40-50 cornering etc.
Click to expand...

Check for play in the bottom ball joints..... all ball joints ;)

But I still think it's either a wheel balance problem or something your gonna have to live with ;)

Having said that I'd check to make sure it wasn't either a warped wheel or a wheel not seated properly too.

Whats the tyre wear like ?
 
Bromsgrove Defender said:
Check for play in the bottom ball joints..... all ball joints ;)

But I still think it's either a wheel balance problem or something your gonna have to live with ;)

Having said that I'd check to make sure it wasn't either a warped wheel or a wheel not seated properly too.

Whats the tyre wear like ?
Click to expand...

Oh they're worn :hysterically_laughi

I don't think it's a warped wheel, but I'll try swapping the rears to the front tonight, see if that makes any difference. And adjust pressures accordingly obviously :D

I don't like living with problems, it's took me ages to nearly niggle them all out, this is getting fixed :doh:
 
D4MJT said:
Oh they're worn :hysterically_laughi

I don't think it's a warped wheel, but I'll try swapping the rears to the front tonight, see if that makes any difference. And adjust pressures accordingly obviously :D
Click to expand...


Before swappin em over have a good look at the tread see if they are worn evenly ;)
 
Bromsgrove Defender said:
Before swappin em over have a good look at the tread see if they are worn evenly ;)
Click to expand...

it keeps my idle hands busy lol.

I can tell you now they are worn evenly, they're not scrubbing either shoulder off, nor wearing in the middle due to over inflation. Had them off last weekend and checked them over while fitting new shocks in a monsoon.

Took me 2 days to dry out lol :(
 
D4MJT said:
it keeps my idle hands busy lol.

I can tell you now they are worn evenly, they're not scrubbing either shoulder off, nor wearing in the middle due to over inflation. Had them off last weekend and checked them over while fitting new shocks in a monsoon.

Took me 2 days to dry out lol :(
Click to expand...

Ah an after all that we comes back to my first suggestion then...


feckin drive slower :rolleyes: :D :D
 
you'll probably find nothing wrong with anything, the problem is the wheel size if you want it any better you will have to swap to 16'' rims,the problems you describe are all traits of the 18'' rim size
 
clarkie said:
you'll probably find nothing wrong with anything, the problem is the wheel size if you want it any better you will have to swap to 16'' rims,the problems you describe are all traits of the 18'' rim size
Click to expand...

I can assure you it's not a wheel size issue :)

The car drove far better previously on the same wheels, it's an issue that's developed over the last year, so it has nothing to do with wheel size. While I understand the 16" will provide a smoother ride, by fitting 18" Land Rover wheels that came standard on my car you simply wouldn't experience the shudder that I have currently. I never used to have it anyway lol
 
D4MJT said:
I can assure you it's not a wheel size issue :)

The car drove far better previously on the same wheels, it's an issue that's developed over the last year, so it has nothing to do with wheel size. While I understand the 16" will provide a smoother ride, by fitting 18" Land Rover wheels that came standard on my car you simply wouldn't experience the shudder that I have currently. I never used to have it anyway lol
Click to expand...

oh right, seeing as you've changed just about everything at the front that could cause the vibrations you have described and its a well documented fact that p38's dont like the 18'' rim size especially with worn tyres,try the rebalance as sugested by elsie you could have lost a weight,but my guess is it will be the same,change the wheels or change the tyres if there half worn or less,been there done that like most on here that give good advice:)
 
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