I've read a lot and watched a number of YouTube videos on the reasons why one should 'upgrade' your Defender performance with a boost pin and/or ring. Invariably, the suppliers of these items are all over the forums and social media promoting and justifying the case for doing these upgrades; as someone who also runs a business, I totally 'get' that and why should they not? Let me just say now that I'm a novice when it comes to engine tuning and optimising and that's why I'm posting this open question because, to date, whilst I've seen individuals on this forum report definite performance improvements, I haven't seen a 'before and 'after' comparison particularly with a boost ring installed after a boost pin 'upgrade'. Are upgrades happening on many engines where the core fuel management components are not optimised to start with and, so, something like a boost pin and/or boost ring will inevitably make a difference? In other words, should we not be ensuring the injector pump, etc, is set as good as we can get it or even have a specialist bench-check it first? There's a nice little earner going on here with, what looks like to me, over-priced bits of CNC'd metal (OK, maybe decent grade metals, etc, but still over-priced IMHO); or maybe not.
The Case For Using A Boost Pin And/Or Boost Ring?
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Henry_b
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If it works why knock it?
the 112hp 260nm 300tdi isn't going to churn the road up, the boot pin just gives it some more oomph.
If you're worried about any aspect of your injection system that may be weak have it rebuilt or replaced?
the 112hp 260nm 300tdi isn't going to churn the road up, the boot pin just gives it some more oomph.
If you're worried about any aspect of your injection system that may be weak have it rebuilt or replaced?
Hi, first-off, I'm certainly not knocking either of these products; I'm asking if, before fitting such kit, should owners maybe ensure that all the other factors that directly or indirectly affect performance be checked or optimised first? That's not being worried or concerned, it's simply approaching the matter of engine performance and tuning in an, arguably, logical manner.
Henry_b
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If she's running well before, a Boost Pin should just be a complinent it won't turn it into a fire breather but performance will be improved.
It's not a serious piece of performance kit at any point..
If the TDI is not tunning right, then obvious diagnose and fix before fitting or doing anything..
But if it runs well, then fit it..
there is nothing stopping you "Optimise" anything it's your car at the end of the day..
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Ah ha, but that's the point that TH is making, a great many people fit the boost pins and rings as in "upgrade" and here lies the problem.
Admittedly the 200&300Tdi engines aren't exactly torque and horsepower monsters but this much is true, when they are in good condition and the fuel injection system in tip top order and in a good state of tune they are actually quite good and the pins and rings are simply bolt on bits and remove the fine art of engine tuning.
TBH I have long since come to the conclusion that the pins an rings are sold on a fit and forget basis, that negates actual tuning, to enthusiasts that want more pep but don't know how to tune their engine and don't want to spend money with engine tuners who can get the best out of their existing set up without bolt on bits.
A lot of well worn engines are fitted up with these pins an rings and really shouldn't be, the engines are worn and tired and if anything the pins and rings merely mask the symptoms of the engine being worn out and further accelerate the demise of the engine but bearing in mind that a great many are now into the hobby phase of their life and will barely get warm let alone work hard, admittedly there are a few mud pluggers but they don't see high miles or great stress for long periods of time.
I don't advocate for them and can't see the point to them as the whole idea behind owning a slow old bus with off road prowess is drive it like a slow old bus and drive it hard off road, I would rather drive a detuned engine hard and know that it is safely working within it's parameters than tune it to within an inch of it's life and push it close to it's limits every time I take it out. The 200&300Tdi engines will take a tune and so long as care is taken in setting up the FIP timing and tuning the boost and fuelling to within safe limits they are fine but the main problem is that people are expecting a 25yr old truck with an engine with it's ancestry rooted back in the 1960s to drive like a 2019 Range Rover Sport, and as I have said a million times before, if you want to drive sprightly then go buy a Mazda MX5 or a TVR.
One of the greatest draws for many people as weekend warriors and hobbyists is the sedate driving style and the nostalgia of old trucks and a drive back in yesteryear as a time warp.
Henry_b
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Yep i agree/
The Pin will add, what 10-15hp if that, and maybe some added torque,tbh tuning on that motor will give you next to nowt.
IIRC the 300 can take up to 160hp on stock internals, but to get that it's turbo - Intercooler time plus breathing mods.
Thats pushing it IMO especially as you say on a 25+ yr old engine..
I'd say the Pin is just a boot up the 'arse for the 300..
Not really my thing, the 300 is alright in stock form tbh..
But the Pin will add some grunt as ya know
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Tuned Tdi’s go very very well. They make a huge difference to the “feel” of the engine. You might only gain a small bhp. But it will feel like you gained 50hp+
It’s more the performance under the curve that makes the difference. This will make them much better tow vehicles, better off road and allow you to pull from lower speeds in gear on the road. Making them much more flexible.
As with any engine. A good engine, in good condition will always perform better. And Tdi’s do seem to vary. Ones that don’t drive well stock will always under perform even when tuned.
Bigger Intercooler and tweaking the injector pump are easy things you can do at home. Just don’t over do it with the smoke or EGT’s.
Personally not convinced on the boost pins. You can just turn the eccentric pin in there and tweak the smoke and power screws.
The boost ring I think will improve performance and potentially reduce smoke. I can see the benefits. But again it’s more the under the curve performance than headline figures.
Not saying this will be true for all Tdi’s. A friend chucked all the off the shelf bits at his; boost ring, boost pin. Even a hybrid turbo. Mine has far less done to it. It was tuned by Allisport originally and then tweaked by me a little further. Mine made 20% more power to the wheels. It pulls aggressively in every gear, despite running a Disco 1.2:1 transfer box and I’ve GPS clocked it at 94mph.
It’s more the performance under the curve that makes the difference. This will make them much better tow vehicles, better off road and allow you to pull from lower speeds in gear on the road. Making them much more flexible.
As with any engine. A good engine, in good condition will always perform better. And Tdi’s do seem to vary. Ones that don’t drive well stock will always under perform even when tuned.
Bigger Intercooler and tweaking the injector pump are easy things you can do at home. Just don’t over do it with the smoke or EGT’s.
Personally not convinced on the boost pins. You can just turn the eccentric pin in there and tweak the smoke and power screws.
The boost ring I think will improve performance and potentially reduce smoke. I can see the benefits. But again it’s more the under the curve performance than headline figures.
Not saying this will be true for all Tdi’s. A friend chucked all the off the shelf bits at his; boost ring, boost pin. Even a hybrid turbo. Mine has far less done to it. It was tuned by Allisport originally and then tweaked by me a little further. Mine made 20% more power to the wheels. It pulls aggressively in every gear, despite running a Disco 1.2:1 transfer box and I’ve GPS clocked it at 94mph.
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I am lead to believe that there is a lot more to the setting up of the FIP than just toying with the pump internals and adjusting the wastegate opening.
Thanks to @dieseldog69 and @300bhp/ton for shining a light in to what I'm trying to say and adding the technical bit! This below probably sums up what my original post was trying to say:
Just as folk may bolt on loads of bits to their Landy's bodywork, so some will tune and optimise the engines for max performance and all that is fine - because it's yours; but I wonder if some just see the pin and ring as a magic bullet (lazy buggers engine tune!) to do great things to that tired old engine under the carbon fibre bonnet? IMHO, get the basic components right or, at least, checked and sorted before adding after-market kit; plus, you won't need that nice EGT gauge with dual read-out!
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Yeah, i used to call the fellahs with all the cash bolt on babies be sure it was all about the newest and next thing that required very little know how or fabrication skills just money, but i have become indifferent to it now as I've grown older.Thanks to @dieseldog69 and @300bhp/ton for shining a light in to what I'm trying to say and adding the technical bit! This below probably sums up what my original post was trying to say:
Just as folk may bolt on loads of bits to their Landy's bodywork, so some will tune and optimise the engines for max performance and all that is fine - because it's yours; but I wonder if some just see the pin and ring as a magic bullet (lazy buggers engine tune!) to do great things to that tired old engine under the carbon fibre bonnet? IMHO, get the basic components right or, at least, checked and sorted before adding after-market kit; plus, you won't need that nice EGT gauge with dual read-out!
I do still wish people would stop expecting a quarter century old engine to perform like an out the crate LS3, but yeah, not gonna happen.
