Testing the starter motor

CakeBandit · Jun 22, 2013

Need advice on the starter motor. The starter on my 2.25L petrol can barely turn the motor.
Here is what I have done so far-
-Measured the voltage, and it was less then 6-7 V when engaged.
-Measured the resistance of the wires and ground- fine
-Swapped a battery with another vehicle, and same.
-Cleaned all the terminals, same problem,
-Introduced a series 3 type solenoid just to see if it was the push starter solenoid.
-When testing it using the series 3 type solenoid same problem with it only able to do half cranks, and all of the sudden the bat pos. term. to solenoid, solenoid to starter and all the big earth cables got cherry red with smoke from insulation burning off.
-Pulled the starter out today and inspected the brush and springs holding them in. All appeared fine.
-waiting for a friend to bring some jumpers to hook the starter up (in a vice) to the battery. - the last test

In the mean time, what else could it be? Its the starter right? A short path to ground inside the motor somewhere?

oxides · Jun 22, 2013

Sounds like a duff starter.

dogsbody · Jun 22, 2013

You've got a short in the windings inside the motor. It's either a re-wind
(am I showing my age again, does anybody still do that)
or a new starter.

zzr1200 · Jun 22, 2013

dogsbody said:
It's either a re-wind
(am I showing my age again, does anybody still do that)
or a new starter.

I doubt if theres anybody that rewinds starter motors these days unless you intend spending loads of dosh for a very rare vintage/classic vehicle.

You might get a com skim/new bushes if your lucky or just a parafin/paint overhaul.

Its probably cheaper to get a far eastern pattern throw away part...

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/527238069/Lucas_starter_for_Land_Rover_LRS00136.html

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/527238999/Lucas_starter_for_Land_Rover_LRS00139.html

CakeBandit · Jun 23, 2013

With the unit off the engine, and hooked up to some jumpers cables it showed 7-8 volts maximum and slowly faded into 5 volts. I blew out the inside with compressed air, and same results. The battery jumpers heated up too at the ends where the wire terminates to the clips. That is odd being that there is no load on the motor.
I tested the unit for about 10 seconds at a time.

The starter is supposed to measure 12 volts when operating correct?

Thank you for the links to alibaba, and for all the replies. I think that's is going to be the cheapest / best route.

zzr1200 · Jun 23, 2013

CakeBandit said:
With the unit off the engine, and hooked up to some jumpers cables it showed 7-8 volts maximum and slowly faded into 5 volts. I blew out the inside with compressed air, and same results. The battery jumpers heated up too at the ends where the wire terminates to the clips. That is odd being that there is no load on the motor.
I tested the unit for about 10 seconds at a time.

The starter is supposed to measure 12 volts when operating correct?

Thank you for the links to alibaba, and for all the replies. I think that's is going to be the cheapest / best route.

A free running starter motor (in good condition) will probably drop the battery voltage to about 11 volts once up to full speed, a fully charged battery in perfect condition without any loading should read 13.2 Volts.

When fitted to an engine using a fully charged battery in good condition the On Load voltage (engine being turned over) across the battery (the correct oem spec one for the vehicle or higher cca) will probably drop and hold at between 8 to 9.5 volts minimum, if your voltage is fading to 5 volts I'd make sure the battery is in perfect condition first.

Have you tried another battery yet, I suspect you maybe correct in looking at starter motor (sound like a short in the motor), but make sure your battery is in good condition and that all your starter motor wiring including earth wiring is in perfect condition.

Try refitting the starter motor to the engine, then use a jump lead between the engine block and the -ve post of the battery (assuming your vehicle is -ve earth) try starting it to check your return earth circuit. And if possible another jump lead between the +ve post to the main starter input terminal again try starting it, that way you should have by-passed any possible bad wiring connection, apart from the starter motor to engine block metal to metal surface connection (have you cleaned the starter motor/engine block mating surfaces?)

hth

CakeBandit · Jun 26, 2013

Just tried another battery from another vehicle I drove on the highway for a hour prior.
Same result with the jumper cables, the starter sounds like it grinding on something, not a screech, but I would would say more like a hiss. It starts spinning and the rpm seems to fade as well as the voltage. (begins at 7v and after a few seconds goes to 4v)
Have not tried refitting it, and using the existing wiring plus jumpers. Ill try that next...

mrchurchill109 · Jun 26, 2013

Don't refit it and throw more wire at it - you'll damage something on the car.

The starter's windings are shorted (as mentioned above) or one of the bushings is nearly seized. If you have a local sparky (auto electric shop) you can take it to them for a conclusive test.

Were it me i'd be ripping the thing apart on the bench and getting at it with a meter but that's just me - real people don't do that.

ajr

zzr1200 · Jun 26, 2013

CakeBandit said:
Just tried another battery from another vehicle I drove on the highway for a hour prior.
Same result with the jumper cables, the starter sounds like it grinding on something, not a screech, but I would would say more like a hiss. It starts spinning and the rpm seems to fade as well as the voltage. (begins at 7v and after a few seconds goes to 4v)
Have not tried refitting it, and using the existing wiring plus jumpers. Ill try that next...

Forget refitting it for another test, by-pass the toolbox and go straight to alibaba for another starter motor and probably another battery as well......its sounds truly fecked

jamesmartin · Jun 26, 2013

a starter running from 7v will overheat ,id fit new starter and battery ,solenoid and cables

zzr1200 · Jun 26, 2013

jamesmartin said:
a starter running from 7v will overheat ,id fit new starter and battery ,solenoid and cables

If I'm correct James, the above test was carried out by CakeBandit on the floor or in a vice on the bench, chances are the starter fubared at very lease.

jamesmartin · Jun 26, 2013

zzr1200 said:
If I'm correct James, the above test was carried out by CakeBandit on the floor or in a vice on the bench, chances are the starter fubared at very lease.

iin which case id agree with you

CakeBandit · Jun 27, 2013

Thanks everyone, will get new.

zzr1200 · Jun 27, 2013

CakeBandit, just for our future reference are you an English ex-pat living in Thailand, because you seem to have an excellent understanding of English?

CakeBandit · Jul 5, 2013

Update:
Just installed the new starter. It was really really loud, and scared me

-lol compared to what I was used to with the old one.
Before testing the battery was at 12.2V. It measures 10V when cranking -measured at only the battery posts. Sounds like its really cranking fast. I would almost say twice as fast, so I wonder if it will start easier in the hot weather.

By the way I went for one identical in the first link- Lucas Starter For Land Rover,Lrs00136,Lrs136 - Buy Lucas Starter,Starter Motor,Auto Starter Motor Product on Alibaba.com

I'm a part time expat, will be full time once i reach the age

Hail from across the pond from spy universe.

cheers!

zzr1200 · Jul 5, 2013

CakeBandit said:
Update:
Just installed the new starter. It was really really loud, and scared me -lol compared to what I was used to with the old one.
Before testing the battery was at 12.2V. It measures 10V when cranking -measured at only the battery posts. Sounds like its really cranking fast. I would almost say twice as fast, so I wonder if it will start easier in the hot weather.

By the way I went for one identical in the first link- Lucas Starter For Land Rover,Lrs00136,Lrs136 - Buy Lucas Starter,Starter Motor,Auto Starter Motor Product on Alibaba.com

I'm a part time expat, will be full time once i reach the age
Hail from across the pond from spy universe.

cheers!

Hi CB, 10 volts across the battery terminals while cranking the engine sounds good may even drop to 8 volts possibly, I take it you counted the teeth on the pinion gear and checked against the old unit (same amount)???

I hope the imitation Lucus Starter from Alibaba.com has a long service life.

Good luck sounds like you've sorted the problem, keep us informed of your progress.

zzr1200 · Jul 5, 2013

CakeBandit said:
I'm a part time expat, will be full time once i reach the age

I hope you enjoy your retirement in your chosen place.

CakeBandit said:
Hail from across the pond from spy universe.

cheers!

Yank Land????

or

Am I just being thick.

Testing the starter motor

CakeBandit

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oxides

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dogsbody

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zzr1200

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CakeBandit

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