TD4 problems starting possibly connected to broken turbo hose?

Hi all,

I've owned a Freelander for 2 years now (3 door 2005 TD4) and have loved every minute of driving it until recently.

A couple of months ago the rear differential unexpectedly decided to throw some of its cogs through the case, but I Fixed that with a reconditioned part.

Then this week I started to lose power when the revs hit around 2500 upwards.
I looked and looked for a hole in the turbo hoses as i was sure it was losing air somewhere but couldn't find any.

That is until 2 days ago when I started hearing what sounded like a hoover under the bonnet.
I inspected the hoses again and this time found a hole (that i could fit 3 fingers in) in one of the hoses. It was the left side hose that connects the intercooler to the manifold - the one that connects to the hose with the air temp sensor on.
So as a very temporary measure i sealed the hole with gaffa tape and ordered a replacement part from my local Landrover dealer with my plan being, drive my car to the dealer and fit the new hose in the dealers car park as it is only 2 jubilee clips that hold it on.

So yesterday morning i checked that the part was in stock and went to set off.
My car wouldn't start. It just kept on turning over and over without actually biting and firing. I tried several times to let the glow plugs heat up etc but to no avail.
The battery eventually ran flat so i called my father who has a mains jump/boost starter. We hooked it up and tried starting again. Same result, it just turned and turned without firing.
We decided to leave the battery on charge whilst we went to pick up the new hose. Around an hour later we returned and I fitted the new hose, disconnected the charger and the car turned and fired straight away!
So i was confused whether the charge had fixed it or the new pipe or maybe just because ambient temperature had risen a little?

I dismissed it being the charge as the car had been connected to the jump starter and had still failed to start. I took the car for a long run to ensure that the battery had charge in it. I made a couple of stops and the car restarted fine - although i know the engine was warm. So i went to bed and relaxed thinking i had solved the problem.

This morning I came to start the car and it wont start!
Same thing. It is turning and turning without firing.

This forum has been a wealth of information to me so far and i am hoping that somebody can point me in the right direction.

I have read that it could be the low pressure fuel pump? But i can hear that whirring in the back when i turn on my ignition.

Is it likely to be a fuel problem or maybe a glow plug problem (i haven't had any trouble starting it until the problem with the hose)

I do like to try and fix problems myself rather than just dumping it on a garage. That's one of the reasons i bought a landrover

Position sensor for the crank(or cam) shaft - have a search on the forum - although it usually gives problems when hot...............

Thanks for the reply, I have spent a very interesting 4 hours reading through the forum (I have learnt so much) and came across that a couple of times. But as you say, it seems to be when the engine is hot. It is now on my list of things to check when i get home from work, along with injector leak off test and checking the rear fuel pump
Any other ideas are more than welcome

I think the rear pump can "fail" even if it is still making noise

It has to deliver a certain pressure for the engine to start

An internal leak would effectively kill it even if the whirring continues

would go for injectors, leak off test would prove.

have you any of the spray stuff that they used to use when desiels would not start in the old day if you have try spraying some up and if it starts then it is a fuel problem or have a look at the heater plugs hope this helps

I actually bought some "Easy Start" spray from Halfords on the way home tonight to try.
My battery was still flat so i was using a Halfords Jump Start Boost Pack.
I sprayed into the inlet pipe while my missus turned the engine over but it still didn't catch.
That is presuming that i was spraying it in the correct place.

With the bonnet open i was stood at the front facing the windscreen. The pipe i sprayed into is on the left, above the hose that connects the intercooler to the manifold - it looks like a fabric hose with metal coils in it. Is that the right place?

I only have an unlit driveway to work on at the moment so i will be testing the injectors and possibly the low pressure fuel pump at the weekend.

yes that it the right place that should have started it , if you sprayed enough because a deisle does not have ignition like a petrol it goes on compression

I gave it a good 2 second squirt - I'm just wondering if the booster pack i used just isn't powerful enough - it's one of the £60 sealed battery ones from Halfords. Over the weekend I'll get a proper jump start from my fathers disco.
I will check the back fuel pump and injectors out too - even if its just out of curiosity to see how they look and work

Thanks to everybody for their replies, landyzone is a great community

Just an update And a Question.....
After removing and cleaning the low pressure fuel pump and filter (in wheel arch - good pressure and clean fuel coming through it)
and doing what ever other basic tests i could manage, i had to resort to taking the TD4 to the garage as the problem was persisting.

They called me this afternoon and said that all 4 glow plugs were worn out and the glow plug relay had blown hence the starting problems.

From what I have read about the TD4's "BMW" engine, it shouldn't really need the glow plugs to fire up with the UK's mild winter weather?
- Is this correct ?

It sounds to me like the garage has just given me a standard "Diesel in cold weather" answer rather than looking any further?

The relay and glow plugs are arriving on Monday so i'll have to wait until then to see if they are right?

From what I have read about the TD4's "BMW" engine, it shouldn't really need the glow plugs to fire up with the UK's mild winter weather?
- Is this correct ?

Click to expand...

i've not tried disconnecting the g.plug system to find out ..

i suspect in freezing temps it might be problematic to start it .. sans functioning g.plugs.

consider the fact that the td4 engine depends on electrics quite a bit ..
the low pressure fuel pump /the ecu / the injectors / and the various sensors and solenoids ..
that's apart from the amps to crank the engine ..

~~~~~~~~~

i know that diesels without all the electronic aids .. including no glow plugs
i.e. the starter being the only drain on the battery ..
can be a right pigs to fire up in freezing temps ..

Just had an update from the garage.

They have fitted 4 new glow plugs and a new glow plug relay.
It fired and started on first attempt!

They then left it a while and tried it again.
Second time the glow plug lights did not light up on the dashboard but it did turn over and start.
The mechanic said he is going to try it again first thing in the morning to see if the glow plugs kick in.

He also said that he is now not 100% convinced that the problem lies in the glow plugs.

From what i can recall, the glow plug light on my dashboard (05 TD4) has always lit up for a second or so regardless of the outside temperature, summer or Winter
Strange how its not lighting up now?

Does this indicate that my glow plugs were warming up when they weren't meant to be or now they are not warming up when they are meant to be?
confused.com

Further update.
Came to start the car this morning thinking all would be fine.
Same problem.....the engine turned and turned and turned without kicking in and firing.

I tried turning the ignition on to let the glow plugs warm up a few times but still no joy.
The mechanic said that he had checked the whole car over, over the last couple of days and everything was fine.

I was a little suspicious last night when i picked the car up and it was already sat there running when i arrived at the garage.

Hi there

Bmw common rail diesels start quite well with no glow plugs working even if they may be a bit rough at the beginning

Sounds to me like your low pressure fuel pump may be the issue

Bugger to start first thing and then maybe ok all day because everything is hot and pressurized......

Did your garage read the error codes in the ECU ?
See if you can measure the pressure given by the LP pump

Digby

Thanks for the reply,
I'm just about to drop it back at the garage now so i was going to ask them to test the wheel arch fuel pump and maybe the injector leak back test too?

I think they said it wasn't showing any error codes but i will double check that with them today.

Back to the Garage today for the 3rd time this month :-(

having fixed numerous problems including blocked fuel filter and split turbo hose, it now looks like either the battery or the starter motor is on its way out.

The car turns over very slowly just like when the battery is low, but it keeps turning and turning rather than fading out.
The garage say it could be a lazy starter motor ar damaged cells in the battery - the engine management light has also lit up but i'm presuming that is because of electrical problems?

In case it is the starter motor.....I have read about the denso starter motor servicing kit (replaces the plunger and solenoids) that is on sale for around £12 on ebay - has anybody done this themselves and is it really as easy as it sounds?

Does your battery have one of the test indicators built in. It's a little round window that shows a green indicator if the charge is good or black if it isnt. The garage should be able to test it or at least take it to a Battery supplier who can put a tester across the terminals!

Unfortunately my battery doesn't have an indicator.
It was a little annoying as on Friday, I had planned to take it to both Halfords and Kwik fit for their free battery tests - but I couldn't get the bloody thing started.

as already has been mentioned , i would deffinatly suspect the cam shaft position sensor,
its easy to replace and eliminates a known problem, and your symptoms put this as the no 1 suspect,

the battery must be in good health , and the engine should turn overbriskly, if the battery is over 5 years old it maybe worth replacing it anyways,