SUV and flash floods

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M

Mozaic

Guest
I'm thinking of switching to an SUV because I live in an area that
experiences frequent floods.
My question is, which SUV has the highest ground clearance (in the
range of up to $30K)?

Also, bearing in mind my main purpose is to have better chances of
making it through flash floods, will I benefit from having a 4WD? Or
doesn't it matter in case of floods? Are there any other things I
should be looking at?

Thanks.
 
Mozaic wrote:
> I'm thinking of switching to an SUV because I live in an area that
> experiences frequent floods.
> My question is, which SUV has the highest ground clearance (in the
> range of up to $30K)?
>
> Also, bearing in mind my main purpose is to have better chances of
> making it through flash floods, will I benefit from having a 4WD? Or
> doesn't it matter in case of floods? Are there any other things I
> should be looking at?

If these are real flash floods, as in like you get in
Utah, Arizona, Nevada, etc. there is no SUV that is
going to do one bit of good in crossing a wash with water
in it. Don't even think about driving into moving
floodwater unless you would like to be found floating in
the Rio Grande or Salton Sea.

Then once the water recedes, a 4wd that can be
locked may help in traversing the muck often left behind
by same, however most of the ones I've seen tend to
be rather sandy in nature due to the fast water and
really don't even need 4wd.

 

"Lon Stowell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:cB%[email protected]...
> Mozaic wrote:
> > I'm thinking of switching to an SUV because I live in an area that
> > experiences frequent floods.
> > My question is, which SUV has the highest ground clearance (in the
> > range of up to $30K)?
> >
> > Also, bearing in mind my main purpose is to have better chances of
> > making it through flash floods, will I benefit from having a 4WD? Or
> > doesn't it matter in case of floods? Are there any other things I
> > should be looking at?
>
> If these are real flash floods, as in like you get in
> Utah, Arizona, Nevada, etc. there is no SUV that is
> going to do one bit of good in crossing a wash with water
> in it. Don't even think about driving into moving
> floodwater unless you would like to be found floating in
> the Rio Grande or Salton Sea.
>
> Then once the water recedes, a 4wd that can be
> locked may help in traversing the muck often left behind
> by same, however most of the ones I've seen tend to
> be rather sandy in nature due to the fast water and
> really don't even need 4wd.
>

Less than 2' of water can spell disaster. Here in Arizona, you have to pay for your rescue
as well


 

"Barry White" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:lT%Oa.48$OP.8@fed1read04...
>
> "Lon Stowell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:cB%[email protected]...
> > Mozaic wrote:
> > > I'm thinking of switching to an SUV because I live in an area that
> > > experiences frequent floods.
> > > My question is, which SUV has the highest ground clearance (in the
> > > range of up to $30K)?
> > >
> > > Also, bearing in mind my main purpose is to have better chances of
> > > making it through flash floods, will I benefit from having a 4WD? Or
> > > doesn't it matter in case of floods? Are there any other things I
> > > should be looking at?
> >
> > If these are real flash floods, as in like you get in
> > Utah, Arizona, Nevada, etc. there is no SUV that is
> > going to do one bit of good in crossing a wash with water
> > in it. Don't even think about driving into moving
> > floodwater unless you would like to be found floating in
> > the Rio Grande or Salton Sea.
> >
> > Then once the water recedes, a 4wd that can be
> > locked may help in traversing the muck often left behind
> > by same, however most of the ones I've seen tend to
> > be rather sandy in nature due to the fast water and
> > really don't even need 4wd.
> >
>
> Less than 2' of water can spell disaster. Here in Arizona, you have to pay
for your rescue
> as well


They "say" you have to pay but how do they go about collecting? The answer
is they don't and you don't....


 

"Stergil" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "Barry White" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:lT%Oa.48$OP.8@fed1read04...
> >
> > "Lon Stowell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:cB%[email protected]...
> > > Mozaic wrote:
> > > > I'm thinking of switching to an SUV because I live in an area that
> > > > experiences frequent floods.
> > > > My question is, which SUV has the highest ground clearance (in the
> > > > range of up to $30K)?
> > > >
> > > > Also, bearing in mind my main purpose is to have better chances of
> > > > making it through flash floods, will I benefit from having a 4WD? Or
> > > > doesn't it matter in case of floods? Are there any other things I
> > > > should be looking at?
> > >
> > > If these are real flash floods, as in like you get in
> > > Utah, Arizona, Nevada, etc. there is no SUV that is
> > > going to do one bit of good in crossing a wash with water
> > > in it. Don't even think about driving into moving
> > > floodwater unless you would like to be found floating in
> > > the Rio Grande or Salton Sea.
> > >
> > > Then once the water recedes, a 4wd that can be
> > > locked may help in traversing the muck often left behind
> > > by same, however most of the ones I've seen tend to
> > > be rather sandy in nature due to the fast water and
> > > really don't even need 4wd.
> > >
> >
> > Less than 2' of water can spell disaster. Here in Arizona, you have to pay
> for your rescue
> > as well
>
>
> They "say" you have to pay but how do they go about collecting? The answer
> is they don't and you don't....
>
>

Do you know that for a fact? It would be real easy. The responsible agency sends you a
bill. You think you're a rocket scientist by throwing it away or ignoring it. It goes to
collection, and onto your credit report. Now if you're a Wart Mart kind of person (beers
cans and toilet in the front yard of your mobile home), you don't care. Anyone else would
care. And pay....


 
Can someone please comment on which SUV is best suited for floods? I
don't mean to intentionally drive into one, but want to know which one
is considered best, in case I happen to get stuck in one. Thanks.

[email protected] (Mozaic) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I'm thinking of switching to an SUV because I live in an area that
> experiences frequent floods.
> My question is, which SUV has the highest ground clearance (in the
> range of up to $30K)?
>
> Also, bearing in mind my main purpose is to have better chances of
> making it through flash floods, will I benefit from having a 4WD? Or
> doesn't it matter in case of floods? Are there any other things I
> should be looking at?
>
> Thanks.
 

"Mozaic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Can someone please comment on which SUV is best suited for floods? I
> don't mean to intentionally drive into one, but want to know which one
> is considered best, in case I happen to get stuck in one. Thanks.
>
> [email protected] (Mozaic) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > I'm thinking of switching to an SUV because I live in an area that
> > experiences frequent floods.
> > My question is, which SUV has the highest ground clearance (in the
> > range of up to $30K)?
> >
> > Also, bearing in mind my main purpose is to have better chances of
> > making it through flash floods, will I benefit from having a 4WD? Or
> > doesn't it matter in case of floods? Are there any other things I
> > should be looking at?
> >
> > Thanks.

one that does not float


 

"Mozaic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm thinking of switching to an SUV because I live in an area that
> experiences frequent floods.
> My question is, which SUV has the highest ground clearance (in the
> range of up to $30K)?
>
> Also, bearing in mind my main purpose is to have better chances of
> making it through flash floods, will I benefit from having a 4WD? Or
> doesn't it matter in case of floods? Are there any other things I
> should be looking at?
>
> Thanks.

I would say a 3rd or 4th Gen 4 runner is good. I have a 4th Gen 4 runner,
and went through some nasty waters not that long ago (2+feet). The 4th gen 4
runner you can get a snorkel.

If you really want the best, the Hummer H-1. The H-2 is kind of cool because
it's heavy and you can get a snorkel as a factory option.

Also, all Volvos are made so they can go through 2 feet of water safely (at
crawling speed - of course).


 
There are several schools of thought on this, all have merits:

1. Don't do anything so egregiously stupid as to think any SUV
is a match for a flash flood.

There are SUV's with variable ride height. Putting the center
of gravity up in the air keeps the bottom out of the water better
but also makes it easier to flip the thing if the water is
high enough to reach the bodyworks.

2. Some believe that a really heavy vehicle is harder to wash
away. Having seen a flash flood take out an 8 inch reinforced
concrete wall in minutes, I cannot imagine anything lighter
than a HummVee full of Roseanne Barr clones qualifying
as heavy enough.

3. Others trust their luck to a vehicle that floats. This would
be something lightweight, which is easier to crush for the
rocks rolling along in the flash flood.

In the $30K price range, the minor differences in ground clearance
are just that...minor. A coupla inches here and there isn't going
to make one bit of difference.

Should you choose to value your life and that of your passengers,
get a vehicle that has lockable differentials and transfer
case. This might give you a bit of extra traction for traversing
a flooded area after the water has receded.

Or get an open top jeep, so you have at least some chance of
jumping from the thing and running for your life if you ignore
all other advice to STAY OUT OF FLASH FLOODS.

But if you do ignore the advice, can you name me as your
beneficiary first?




Mozaic wrote:

> Can someone please comment on which SUV is best suited for floods? I
> don't mean to intentionally drive into one, but want to know which one
> is considered best, in case I happen to get stuck in one. Thanks.
>
> [email protected] (Mozaic) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>> I'm thinking of switching to an SUV because I live in an area that
>> experiences frequent floods.
>> My question is, which SUV has the highest ground clearance (in the
>> range of up to $30K)?
>>
>> Also, bearing in mind my main purpose is to have better chances of
>> making it through flash floods, will I benefit from having a 4WD? Or
>> doesn't it matter in case of floods? Are there any other things I
>> should be looking at?
>>
>> Thanks.

 

"Lon Stowell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:dRfPa.27755$ye4.20653@sccrnsc01...
> There are several schools of thought on this, all have merits:
>
> 1. Don't do anything so egregiously stupid as to think any SUV
> is a match for a flash flood.
>
> There are SUV's with variable ride height. Putting the center
> of gravity up in the air keeps the bottom out of the water better
> but also makes it easier to flip the thing if the water is
> high enough to reach the bodyworks.
>
> 2. Some believe that a really heavy vehicle is harder to wash
> away. Having seen a flash flood take out an 8 inch reinforced
> concrete wall in minutes, I cannot imagine anything lighter
> than a HummVee full of Roseanne Barr clones qualifying
> as heavy enough.
>
> 3. Others trust their luck to a vehicle that floats. This would
> be something lightweight, which is easier to crush for the
> rocks rolling along in the flash flood.
>
> In the $30K price range, the minor differences in ground clearance
> are just that...minor. A coupla inches here and there isn't going
> to make one bit of difference.
>
> Should you choose to value your life and that of your passengers,
> get a vehicle that has lockable differentials and transfer
> case. This might give you a bit of extra traction for traversing
> a flooded area after the water has receded.
>
> Or get an open top jeep, so you have at least some chance of
> jumping from the thing and running for your life if you ignore
> all other advice to STAY OUT OF FLASH FLOODS.
>
> But if you do ignore the advice, can you name me as your
> beneficiary first?


This whole thread encourages stupid people to act on their instincts. Maybe it's for the
best; perhaps such actions will reduce the excess population however slightly. If you want
to traverse flash floods, get a boat.


 
Mozaic wrote:
> Can someone please comment on which SUV is best suited for floods? I
> don't mean to intentionally drive into one, but want to know which one
> is considered best, in case I happen to get stuck in one. Thanks.
>

OK - assuming you read all the caveats about not driving through flash
floods, here's the ideal spec:

1. Diesel engine with properly sealed snorkel.

2. Holes in the floor so the vehicle fills up with water quickly on entering
the flood so it sinks and maintains traction rather than floating. The large
holes then let the water back out.

3. Tall, narrow tyres which reduce floatation and increase ground pressure.

4. Absolutely minimal electrical systems - no electronic engine management,
no power windows, locks etc.

5. Nothing inside vehicle that soaks up water - rubber covered floor, no
carpet, pvc seats etc.

6. Axle and transmission breathers extended into the snorkel

Only vehicle i can think of that fits the bill is a Land Rover TDi or you
could try:

http://www.ecars.com.au/Mil/LandRover/APswim.html

;-)

--
Julian.
----------
General Melchett from Blackadder describing
his regiments coat of arms:
". . . .two dead Frenchmen atop a pile
of dead Frenchmen. . . . ."


 
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:25:38 UTC "Barry White"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
> "Lon Stowell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:dRfPa.27755$ye4.20653@sccrnsc01...
> > There are several schools of thought on this, all have merits:
> >
> > 1. Don't do anything so egregiously stupid as to think any SUV
> > is a match for a flash flood.
> >
> > There are SUV's with variable ride height. Putting the center
> > of gravity up in the air keeps the bottom out of the water better
> > but also makes it easier to flip the thing if the water is
> > high enough to reach the bodyworks.
> >
> > 2. Some believe that a really heavy vehicle is harder to wash
> > away. Having seen a flash flood take out an 8 inch reinforced
> > concrete wall in minutes, I cannot imagine anything lighter
> > than a HummVee full of Roseanne Barr clones qualifying
> > as heavy enough.
> >
> > 3. Others trust their luck to a vehicle that floats. This would
> > be something lightweight, which is easier to crush for the
> > rocks rolling along in the flash flood.
> >
> > In the $30K price range, the minor differences in ground clearance
> > are just that...minor. A coupla inches here and there isn't going
> > to make one bit of difference.
> >
> > Should you choose to value your life and that of your passengers,
> > get a vehicle that has lockable differentials and transfer
> > case. This might give you a bit of extra traction for traversing
> > a flooded area after the water has receded.
> >
> > Or get an open top jeep, so you have at least some chance of
> > jumping from the thing and running for your life if you ignore
> > all other advice to STAY OUT OF FLASH FLOODS.
> >
> > But if you do ignore the advice, can you name me as your
> > beneficiary first?
>
>
> This whole thread encourages stupid people to act on their instincts. Maybe it's for the
> best; perhaps such actions will reduce the excess population however slightly. If you want
> to traverse flash floods, get a boat.

When someone says "Flash flood" I envision the sudden floods I've
always seen in the Southwest: sudden swelling of the water flow that
frequently resembles a wall of water coming down a relatively
restricted path at considerable speed. No vehicle is going to
reasonably survive that, even if the water front is not laden with
rocks and debris - and clean floods are a rarity. The only way I can
see that ANY vehicle has an advantage is if said vehicle is capable of
assistance in following the old, time proven answer for surviving
floods: HEAD FOR THE HILLS. Anyone fool enough to unnecessarily
expose himself to a flash flood should do so in a customised coffin to
save the ones who eventually find him the trouble.

--
Will Honea <[email protected]>
 

"Will Honea" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:25:38 UTC "Barry White"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> > "Lon Stowell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:dRfPa.27755$ye4.20653@sccrnsc01...
> > > There are several schools of thought on this, all have merits:
> > >
> > > 1. Don't do anything so egregiously stupid as to think any SUV
> > > is a match for a flash flood.
> > >
> > > There are SUV's with variable ride height. Putting the center
> > > of gravity up in the air keeps the bottom out of the water better
> > > but also makes it easier to flip the thing if the water is
> > > high enough to reach the bodyworks.
> > >
> > > 2. Some believe that a really heavy vehicle is harder to wash
> > > away. Having seen a flash flood take out an 8 inch reinforced
> > > concrete wall in minutes, I cannot imagine anything lighter
> > > than a HummVee full of Roseanne Barr clones qualifying
> > > as heavy enough.
> > >
> > > 3. Others trust their luck to a vehicle that floats. This would
> > > be something lightweight, which is easier to crush for the
> > > rocks rolling along in the flash flood.
> > >
> > > In the $30K price range, the minor differences in ground clearance
> > > are just that...minor. A coupla inches here and there isn't going
> > > to make one bit of difference.
> > >
> > > Should you choose to value your life and that of your passengers,
> > > get a vehicle that has lockable differentials and transfer
> > > case. This might give you a bit of extra traction for traversing
> > > a flooded area after the water has receded.
> > >
> > > Or get an open top jeep, so you have at least some chance of
> > > jumping from the thing and running for your life if you ignore
> > > all other advice to STAY OUT OF FLASH FLOODS.
> > >
> > > But if you do ignore the advice, can you name me as your
> > > beneficiary first?
> >
> >
> > This whole thread encourages stupid people to act on their instincts. Maybe it's for
the
> > best; perhaps such actions will reduce the excess population however slightly. If you
want
> > to traverse flash floods, get a boat.
>
> When someone says "Flash flood" I envision the sudden floods I've
> always seen in the Southwest: sudden swelling of the water flow that
> frequently resembles a wall of water coming down a relatively
> restricted path at considerable speed. No vehicle is going to
> reasonably survive that, even if the water front is not laden with
> rocks and debris - and clean floods are a rarity. The only way I can
> see that ANY vehicle has an advantage is if said vehicle is capable of
> assistance in following the old, time proven answer for surviving
> floods: HEAD FOR THE HILLS. Anyone fool enough to unnecessarily
> expose himself to a flash flood should do so in a customised coffin to
> save the ones who eventually find him the trouble.
>
> --
> Will Honea <[email protected]>

My point exactly. I live in the SW and our flash flood season is just around the corner.
Every year, TV shows another bumper crop of idiots in their suburban and xploders who get
caught in these torrents which can be anywhere from a foot - 18 inches to much deeper.
These cretins think because the street crosses the wash (or vice versa) and because they
have a rugged, tough, go-anywhere (like the ads all say) vehicle, then they can cross. So
they drive around the usual barricades and quickly find out how well their $28000 vehicle
will or won't float. The speed of the water is much more of a factor than its depth.


 
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:27:24 UTC "Buddy Ebsen" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> My point exactly. I live in the SW and our flash flood season is just around the corner.
> Every year, TV shows another bumper crop of idiots in their suburban and xploders who get
> caught in these torrents which can be anywhere from a foot - 18 inches to much deeper.
> These cretins think because the street crosses the wash (or vice versa) and because they
> have a rugged, tough, go-anywhere (like the ads all say) vehicle, then they can cross. So
> they drive around the usual barricades and quickly find out how well their $28000 vehicle
> will or won't float. The speed of the water is much more of a factor than its depth.

There is also the other practical factor: moving water digs holes
(Grand Canyon, anyone?) and it's real hard to see thru muddy water.
The first warning is usually water rising over the hood...

I've seen D6 Cats get caught and I promise you that they 1) do not
float and 2) get tumbled like any other vehicle. Texas used to have a
lot of highways that used high water crossings instead of bridges in
the flood prone areas. These were basically concrete pads across the
streams/gullies. The had 8 inch posts on either side about a foot
apart and the rule was that if you don't see the posts, don't cross.

--
Will Honea <[email protected]>
 


Will Honea wrote:

> When someone says "Flash flood" I envision the sudden floods I've
> always seen in the Southwest: sudden swelling of the water flow that
> frequently resembles a wall of water coming down a relatively
> restricted path at considerable speed.


There are different kinds of flash floods. In Missouri, generally flash
floods don't come rolling down dry washes like in the desert regions.
What you get are existing rivers or streams that rise suddenly, covering
roads and homes. While there is some current involved, it's not a
rock-tumbler.




Brian Rodenborn
 

> >
> > They "say" you have to pay but how do they go about collecting? The answer
> > is they don't and you don't....
> >
> >
>
> Do you know that for a fact? It would be real easy. The responsible agency sends you a
> bill. You think you're a rocket scientist by throwing it away or ignoring it. It goes to
> collection, and onto your credit report. Now if you're a Wart Mart kind of person (beers
> cans and toilet in the front yard of your mobile home), you don't care. Anyone else would
> care. And pay....
>
>

I doubt the responsible agency bothers sending you a bill when they can
just sell that bill to real professional debt collectors. With baseball
bats and auto redial.
--
____________________
Remove "X" from email address to reply.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Can someone please comment on which SUV is best suited for floods? I
> don't mean to intentionally drive into one, but want to know which one
> is considered best, in case I happen to get stuck in one. Thanks.
>

None of them are until you perform a few simple modifications, and then
all of them are.
--
____________________
Remove "X" from email address to reply.
 

"Chris Phillipo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> > >
> > > They "say" you have to pay but how do they go about collecting? The answer
> > > is they don't and you don't....
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Do you know that for a fact? It would be real easy. The responsible agency sends you a
> > bill. You think you're a rocket scientist by throwing it away or ignoring it. It goes
to
> > collection, and onto your credit report. Now if you're a Wart Mart kind of person
(beers
> > cans and toilet in the front yard of your mobile home), you don't care. Anyone else
would
> > care. And pay....
> >
> >
>
> I doubt the responsible agency bothers sending you a bill when they can
> just sell that bill to real professional debt collectors. With baseball
> bats and auto redial.


The bill gets there no matter. Also, we have some areas where you have to pay for fire
protection. No pay, your house burns down. Yes they will stand there and watch, too...


 

Buddy Ebsen <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:axoPa.1424$Bp2.277@fed1read07...
> The bill gets there no matter. Also, we have some areas where you have to
pay for fire
> protection. No pay, your house burns down. Yes they will stand there and
watch, too...

Yep...we have "fire subscriptions" here in W Tennessee, it's around
$30 a year, if you don't have it they will only respond if there are lives
in danger.



 
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