Suspension mysery - I know what your thinking!

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webcam007

New Member
Posts
7
Location
Southampton
I know what your all thinking, not another damn EAS fault. Well Over the last week I have read the entire internet and cannot find anything that gives me a clue what to do next.
So I bought my lovely Rangie just over a week ago and all seemed fine suspension all working and everything very exciting! The previous owner was another off road nut but wasn't really getting the time out of it anymore so needed to sell. As I see all seemed good when I picked it up. tested the suspension up down. All good. He said he'd replaced various aspects of it in the last couple of years and didn't have any problems. So two days of gentle driving getting used to things I was getting cocky and started using the the Access mode at the end and start of journeys. (Short wife!!) After a couple of days of this however I noticed it couldn't get out of Access mode back to standard mode. Just kept flashing the standard mode light but never lifted.
Now this is where I'm lucky I guess. I would have been foxed at this point but for the fact that the previous owner had started doing a conversion so that he could reinflate his tyres from the central reservoir at the end of a session. Consequently he'd teed a couple of connectors off the main pipe 6 that heads off to the reservior from the EAS box in the engine bay. One tee goes off to a valve at the front of the engine bay (where you would plug in a tyre once the conversion was complete) and the other off to a digital pressure gauge in the cab. For the first couple of days of happy driving the gauge was reading 9 or more bar, however I now noticed it was down to 4.5 bar Hmm obviously not enough pressure in the reservoir to lift the car anymore. Had a word with the owner who was gutted and explained how it all worked and what he'd replaced. He had done the air springs and also some other bits. He'd also redone the seals in the compressor. Started searching the net and have learnt a massive amount about how it all works. Started checking the compressor as I noticed over a good long period of time the compressor was getting .1 or .2 bar increase in the main tank but we're talking 30 minutes, not 4 minutes!!! Unbolted the compressor and put my thumb over the outlet, hmm not very impressive. Spoke to Father in law, man of all tools and gadgets!! :) I've got a compressor we could try he says! Before long he turns up with a compressor which rather conveniently fitted straight onto the tyre blowing up pipe fitted by the precious owner that leads to the reservoir bypassing all else. Behold before long I had pressure in the tank. Car jacked up again and tank reading 8 bar. (Only a small compressor couldn't get any more in before it cut off.) So what do I deem from this. after a day of being off and a door left ajar to deactivate EAS still 8 bar in the tank and no saggy corners so it doesn't look like the suspension springs or the reservoir have any leaks! Thats it then, must be a weak compressor. Ordered another one from Symlase on Ebay. Turned up next day, plugged it in and no improvement. Very dissappointed. Still not putting any more air in the reservoir. Sure if I give it half an hour and half burn out the compressor it will get a tiny bit in but not a sensible quantity. Had a brain wave and stuck a pressure meter on my old compressor when working and on the refurbed one from EBAY. If anything my original was slightly better so definitely not the compressor.

So what is next??? Valve block?? Before I go mental and start replacing loads of things does anyone actually know what my issue here is.

Reservoir not leaking.
Air springs not leaking.
The only way air leaves the system is if the vehicle changes height due to self levelling or access mode of motorway speed drop down.
Compressor functioning fine but not really increasing pressure in reservoir only very slowly. Reconned and tested compressor does the same thing.

So how does it all happen. Compressor sends air to valve block with the diaphram in it. What does this diaphram and O'ring actually do as my next plan is to replace this but that is whole EAS box out and more money so before I do thought I would ask you guys! I've looked at many diagrams and schematics. Where does the diaphram send the air next? Can't tell, is it direct to the pipe to the dryer. How do you open the dryer unit??? Dryer back to block again and then somehow it appears again at pipe 6 which heads off the the reservoir on the pipe which I know I can fill the reservoir with.

All help gratefully received as going bonkers now! lol

PS having spoken to the guy on Ebay he tells me its very bad to fit a normal compressor to the the cable as I have, after more research this is presumably because it bypasses the air dryer so potentially introduces moisture into the system.

thanks again
 
Have you drained the tank , if you've been using without dryer could have lots of water in it and wouldn't hold as much air
 
Have only recompressed the tank a couple of times. Currently whes sat at 4.1 bar and not making any effort to increase that amount on her own compressor. I was thinking only component left has to be the diapram in the vaklve block. Did search from one of your posts the otherday about nrv1 but didn't really generate any results. Just to confirm are we talking about the diaphram and o ring in the valve block which is the first thing the air hits aftewr leaving the compressor?
Many thanks for comments so far.

Much appreciated
 
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Duff compressor, duff replacement compressor. If it goes up with an external compressor via the valve block then it ain't going to be anything but the compressor.
 
Datatek said:
Duff compressor, duff replacement compressor. If it goes up with an external compressor via the valve block then it ain't going to be anything but the compressor.
Click to expand...

Yes you maybe right. But i was sort of hoping that a comprassor bought from a bought from a recognised source, even if second hand, would at least work. Maybe not. Compresssor rigged direct to a pressure gauge should give 170psi + in a very short time indeed.
 
Last edited:
Datatek said:
Duff compressor, duff replacement compressor. If it goes up with an external compressor via the valve block then it ain't going to be anything but the compressor.
Click to expand...

Ahha well I've been plugging my external compressor in directly to a tee piece coming off the reservoir so its skipped the air dryer and valve block all together. Will see what I can tinker with this evening. I think I now have enough bits of technology to connect to the EAS and query it so we'll see if it wants to talk in a min!

Fingers crossed.

Whilst I'm checking through. Can anyone point me in the direction of the NRV1's location? If its working correctly presumably I should have any blowbacks if I disconnect the dryer. Am thinking of testing for pressure at each sequence in the journey to the reservoir and according to the diagram here
scheme.gif


the NRV1 is after the Air dryer (3) but before the Reservoir (4)

Correct? But where :)

Here goes! and thanks to all so far. Much appreciated.
 
NRV1 is the NRV that locks air pressure in the tank. If you can put pressure in the tank and it holds then NRV1 is fine. If you cannot get vehicle compressor to fill tank and compressor is giving good air, odds on problem will be the diaphragm valve. You will note from diagram that air is fed in and exhausted through the same gallery. When compressor is running diaphragm solenoid valve applies air pressure to underneath of diaphragm to seal exhaust port. If with compressor running there is any air at all coming from exhaust port diaphram valve is duff.
 
ahha very interesting, that is the next step then as how now attached but the original and new compressors to a pressure chamber with gauge on and they both successfully fill the chamber to 9+ bar in under 30 seconds so no troubles there. Time for the EAS box to come out and get hardcore with this thing! I did wonder if NRV1 was pretty much sealed in the closed no return position but was letting a tiny amount of air through as, given long enough the compressor does get a small amount of pressure into the reservoir, but will focus on the diaphram now. Is the end of the tunnel in sight!!!
 
Last edited:
elsie said:
is the p38 eas the same as classic , ie only goes up with doors closed , pumps with drivers door open .?????
Click to expand...

EAS movement up or down is supressed with doors open. With engine running compressor will run to inflate depleted air pressure at any time doors open or not.
 
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So ok here my latest update. It appears to be fixed. I say appears as it is currently fully functional again!!! My father in law delivered over a air hose with a pressure gauge and release trigger on the end. He had mad sure the hose he had fitted was the same width as the hose used on the air dryer. I thought that if I could assess whether I was getting good pressure by the air dryer then I could determine whether the NRV1 or diaphram were at fault once and for all. So first of all I depressurised the entire reservoir using the tail pipe that I mentioned the previous owner had fitted then goes directly onto the line that feeds the reservoir. Once I was reading 0.0 bar on the readout I removed the air hose from the top of the air dryer. It was well in. I then pushed in the new pipe that leads to the gauge and release trigger and started the car to see what I could see. On the gauge the needle very quickly went up to 1 bar but then there was a psst and it dropped back down to a third of a bar before repeating the process. The psst was air being dumped by one of the solenoids in the EAS box. Intersting but is it supposed to do that I asked myself? lol Anyway I watch it do this for a while bar, 1/3, bar. etc etc, its was very fast less than 2 seconds per cycle. Obviously pressure there but why is it getting dumped? Too much pressure??? Any way I then realised that there was also a psst noise coming from the disconnected air hose that was plugged in to the top of the dryer. Hmm at the same rate as the gauge was showing it was making a psst noise. This was now very complicated!? How could the air dryer be pushing out air and the hose that I have just removed also appear to be pushing out air. Anyway being curious and desperate and don't ask me why, I decided the wedge the black air hose that I had pulled off into the other end of the trigger with the pressure gauge on it. I suddenly started showing pressure, 1 bar, 2 3 4 5 and then it would drop back to about 3 and then build again! Interesting (and confusing) have I been measuring the wrong way, so this time I held the trigger so the air was allowed to flow through the system. Just like the digital gauge in the car I was now reading air pressure of the tank and connecting tube. So it builds quickly from nothing to a bar then 2, 3, 4 hmm am I readinig this right. so I let go of the trigger and legged it round to the internal gauge in the car and yes, 3.7 from nothing. I went back and pressured the trigger again as it was doing a similar cycling as before except now is was going more up to 8 bar and then dropping back to 5. Held the trigger again and watch the pressure in the tank build again. When it got to 7 bar I closed the driver's door and behold it started to raise the car to Standard height. At this point I took a chance and concluded that basically all I had done is extended the pipe between the top of the air dryer and the EAS box, so I disconnected and plugged the black hose straight back into the dryer. Got back in the car and whilst stunned continued to watch the pressure build in the tank. It puts about 0.1 bar in every ten seconds ish. I could believe my luck. I have since had a couple of journeys around on motorways etc and also cycled through all the height modes three times or more and hey presto it works and refills itself as it goes. So I know what your thinking, black hose into top of air dryer obviously was properly in? I'm thinking not as right back on day one and day two when this problem first appeared, I did spray all connections and hoses thorough with soapy water so I could check for air leaks but nothing. So the only other possibility is that by emptying all the air out of the reservoir completely either something has reseated itself or something has reset somewhere. Admittedly I'm not counting my chickens too much yet as I've always been a believer of something ain't fixed if you don't know exactly what fixed it but there you are. And I'm still on the original compressor that came with the car. Now of course I have a spare for the next time a rainy day occurs! The one other thing I want to do is retest the EAS with the laptop agian to see what it thinks is going on now. I borrowed a friends bluetooth odbII plug, connected it to the laptop and then used the RSW software from the net. According to it, EVERYTHING was broken, Three of the solenoids were stuck closed, one was stuck open, the engine idle was bad, the list went on and on and on and on to the point where I was thinking that the pinout on the odbII plug was probably wrong and therefore reading a load of rubbish as clearly everything isn't broken or it wouldn't work. So it will be interesting to see what is says now the car is working perfectly again. Will update when done but thanks again for everything so far.:)
 
webcam007 said:
So ok here my latest update. It appears to be fixed. I say appears as it is currently fully functional again!!! My father in law delivered over a air hose with a pressure gauge and release trigger on the end. He had mad sure the hose he had fitted was the same width as the hose used on the air dryer. I thought that if I could assess whether I was getting good pressure by the air dryer then I could determine whether the NRV1 or diaphram were at fault once and for all. So first of all I depressurised the entire reservoir using the tail pipe that I mentioned the previous owner had fitted then goes directly onto the line that feeds the reservoir. Once I was reading 0.0 bar on the readout I removed the air hose from the top of the air dryer. It was well in. I then pushed in the new pipe that leads to the gauge and release trigger and started the car to see what I could see. On the gauge the needle very quickly went up to 1 bar but then there was a psst and it dropped back down to a third of a bar before repeating the process. The psst was air being dumped by one of the solenoids in the EAS box. Intersting but is it supposed to do that I asked myself? lol Anyway I watch it do this for a while bar, 1/3, bar. etc etc, its was very fast less than 2 seconds per cycle. Obviously pressure there but why is it getting dumped? Too much pressure??? Any way I then realised that there was also a psst noise coming from the disconnected air hose that was plugged in to the top of the dryer. Hmm at the same rate as the gauge was showing it was making a psst noise. This was now very complicated!? How could the air dryer be pushing out air and the hose that I have just removed also appear to be pushing out air. Anyway being curious and desperate and don't ask me why, I decided the wedge the black air hose that I had pulled off into the other end of the trigger with the pressure gauge on it. I suddenly started showing pressure, 1 bar, 2 3 4 5 and then it would drop back to about 3 and then build again! Interesting (and confusing) have I been measuring the wrong way, so this time I held the trigger so the air was allowed to flow through the system. Just like the digital gauge in the car I was now reading air pressure of the tank and connecting tube. So it builds quickly from nothing to a bar then 2, 3, 4 hmm am I readinig this right. so I let go of the trigger and legged it round to the internal gauge in the car and yes, 3.7 from nothing. I went back and pressured the trigger again as it was doing a similar cycling as before except now is was going more up to 8 bar and then dropping back to 5. Held the trigger again and watch the pressure in the tank build again. When it got to 7 bar I closed the driver's door and behold it started to raise the car to Standard height. At this point I took a chance and concluded that basically all I had done is extended the pipe between the top of the air dryer and the EAS box, so I disconnected and plugged the black hose straight back into the dryer. Got back in the car and whilst stunned continued to watch the pressure build in the tank. It puts about 0.1 bar in every ten seconds ish. I could believe my luck. I have since had a couple of journeys around on motorways etc and also cycled through all the height modes three times or more and hey presto it works and refills itself as it goes. So I know what your thinking, black hose into top of air dryer obviously was properly in? I'm thinking not as right back on day one and day two when this problem first appeared, I did spray all connections and hoses thorough with soapy water so I could check for air leaks but nothing. So the only other possibility is that by emptying all the air out of the reservoir completely either something has reseated itself or something has reset somewhere. Admittedly I'm not counting my chickens too much yet as I've always been a believer of something ain't fixed if you don't know exactly what fixed it but there you are. And I'm still on the original compressor that came with the car. Now of course I have a spare for the next time a rainy day occurs! The one other thing I want to do is retest the EAS with the laptop agian to see what it thinks is going on now. I borrowed a friends bluetooth odbII plug, connected it to the laptop and then used the RSW software from the net. According to it, EVERYTHING was broken, Three of the solenoids were stuck closed, one was stuck open, the engine idle was bad, the list went on and on and on and on to the point where I was thinking that the pinout on the odbII plug was probably wrong and therefore reading a load of rubbish as clearly everything isn't broken or it wouldn't work. So it will be interesting to see what is says now the car is working perfectly again. Will update when done but thanks again for everything so far.:)
Click to expand...

You need a special cable for the EAS, look at the rsw web site for details:)
 
Sounds like NRV1 has been snagged on it's seat. Wish these people would listen. And as Data say a standard OBD2 cable WILL NOT WORK on the EAS.
 
Last edited:
Fair play it was worth a go. Well what can I say, its still all working and have given her some abuse now. Many thanks for all the assistance. I will move on to the next problems now. Its quite a long list but hey it was a bargain and I'm having fun learning all the quirks!
You never know, maybe someone else will be helped by this thread too one day. Hope so. If in doubt before spending money when everything appears to be working, empty the reservoir completely and then try refilling.

Tim
 
webcam007 said:
Fair play it was worth a go. Well what can I say, its still all working and have given her some abuse now. Many thanks for all the assistance. I will move on to the next problems now. Its quite a long list but hey it was a bargain and I'm having fun learning all the quirks!
You never know, maybe someone else will be helped by this thread too one day. Hope so. If in doubt before spending money when everything appears to be working, empty the reservoir completely and then try refilling.

Tim
Click to expand...

Your problem was more than likely caused by the manual inflation valves. You have to ask yourself why the previous owner fitted them. NRV1 locks air in tank. The NRVs have a cone shaped guide noses on them, over time they can get a lip on them this can snag on seat preventing valve from closing. The Range rover compressor is low volume not much airflow is generated. If you fill from a garage air line or from a higher flow compressor the valve will wobble and is more likely to snag. If the valve is snagged the compressor fills the tank but you are using the exhaust valve on the compresssor instead of NRV1 to stop air escaping. As soon as the compressor stops and diaphragm valve opens to exhaust inlet/outlet gallery all the air in the tank flows out of the exhaust port. NRV1 has dropped back onto it's seat so your system is working again.
 
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