Still Got Issues - 300TDi

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Johnny Disco

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91
I recently posted a problem on here http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f8/need-help-91153.html and since then, I've had the compression checked, and apparently everything is fine on the head/compression front. The chap who tested it for me said he managed to get it started and running fine, but then the original problem re-surfaced (running really rough, not revving and loads of white smoke out the rear). After some checking with his colleague who has the necessary diagnostic computer etc, it seems that I have a problem with either an injector or the injector pump possibly (not yet been diagnosed).

My question is, is there anything I could check first that may remove the need to get the guy over to put his computer on the car,? i.e. loose pipes, connections etc or anything that could give me this intermittent problem.

Thanks in advance,
JB
 
I recently posted a problem on here http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f8/need-help-91153.html and since then, I've had the compression checked, and apparently everything is fine on the head/compression front. The chap who tested it for me said he managed to get it started and running fine, but then the original problem re-surfaced (running really rough, not revving and loads of white smoke out the rear). After some checking with his colleague who has the necessary diagnostic computer etc, it seems that I have a problem with either an injector or the injector pump possibly (not yet been diagnosed).

My question is, is there anything I could check first that may remove the need to get the guy over to put his computer on the car,? i.e. loose pipes, connections etc or anything that could give me this intermittent problem.

Thanks in advance,
JB


Hi JB, can you just confirm the model year and gearbox typre ie manual or auto, before going any further?
 
Yep, sorry :)

It's a 1995 ('N') 300TDi Auto.

JB


Ok JB, the reason why I asked the question was to establish whether your vehicle has an ECU or not.

Later autobox cars have EDC (Electronic Diesel Control) which means they have an ECU which could be read for fault diagnosis.

Manual 'box versions and early autos didn't have EDC, so no ECU to interrogate by electronic terminals.

If you have a mass airflow meter between the airfilter box and the turbo, you have EDC.

So why is this important? Well, if some mechanic is telling you that to solve your poor engine performance problem, they need to interrogate the engine ECU and your vehicle DOESN'T have one, then they don't know diddly squat about your car do they?

To be honest if I were in your shoes I think I would want the timing checked, as the symptoms indicate a pump-timing issue. You can do a little of this yourself by opening the round plate on the cambelt cover, where the injection pump is, and start to have a look there.

It is possible to slacken the retaining bolts and slightly move the pump which will alter the timing. If you feel like doing this, move it a small amount clockwise (just a couple of mm), then test the car. Then do it anticlockwise and retest.

Good luck

Dave
 
If needed i have an injection pump for an automatic that i took/swapped off my donor engine.
Its off a later "S" reg 300tdi with EDC i also have 3 spare injectors (just sold the one with EDC wire on), if you need any of the parts give me a pm.
 
hi symun,i may be interested in the parts i have an unknown noise that's possibly injector pump ? mine is 300tdi with edc but i can't find wire on any injector so if nothing else which on is the wire on cheers pj
 
better checking that your turbo is ok first before you start changing fuel pumps.white smoke from rear and not revving sounds to me as if your turbo is f###ed.
i have sorted a few with the same problems and the turbo was seized.
 
If needed i have an injection pump for an automatic that i took/swapped off my donor engine.
Its off a later "S" reg 300tdi with EDC i also have 3 spare injectors (just sold the one with EDC wire on), if you need any of the parts give me a pm.

Thanks matey :)

I'll let you know as soon as I do.

JB
 
better checking that your turbo is ok first before you start changing fuel pumps.white smoke from rear and not revving sounds to me as if your turbo is f###ed.
i have sorted a few with the same problems and the turbo was seized.

Is it easy to check/diagnose?

JB
 
take off the pipe from the air box to turbo and see if you can turn the turbine by hand it should turn very freely with no drag also check to see that dose not move up or down if it has any movement then its useless
 
STAGE ONE ... take out all 4 injectors and get them tested for PRESSURE and PATTERN.

This is so easy to do, it should always be done first.

If even ONE injector has a soft or broken spring, the engine will behave exactly as you describe.

Where are you based?

CharlesY
 
hi symun,i may be interested in the parts i have an unknown noise that's possibly injector pump ? mine is 300tdi with edc but i can't find wire on any injector so if nothing else which on is the wire on cheers pj

The guy who fiited my engine said he took the 4th injector out and swapped it for one from my old one as i didnt need the edc thing, i think its the first one from the pump.
Its the one with the wire in the pic.
 

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Hi Charles,

I'm in Wiltshire, Nr Swindon.

I've been reliably informed that the injectors for the 300TDi with EDC cost an arm and a leg, is this true? (if so, just wondered why)

JB


Hi JB, IF you replace the injectors, you will need one at £225+vat and 3 x £48+vat, according to Paddocks
 
Hi JB, IF you replace the injectors, you will need one at £225+vat and 3 x £48+vat, according to Paddocks

What would be wrong with flinging the EDC pump in the bin, and the 4 injectors, and fit an early 300TDI pump injectors and pipes?

I bet someone knows about this.

CharlesY
 
Hi JB, IF you replace the injectors, you will need one at £225+vat and 3 x £48+vat, according to Paddocks


Nadgers, should have done my homework, sold the edc injector for 15quid on fleabay.
No wonder he was so desperate for me to send.
 
HOW MUCH!?

How the hell can they justify such a difference? :mad:

The way my luck is going at the moment it'll be the dear bu**er :(

I really needed this right now!
 
HOW MUCH!?

How the hell can they justify such a difference? :mad:
The way my luck is going at the moment it'll be the dear bu**er :(
I really needed this right now!


Hi JB, I shouldn't worry about the cost of the injectors if I were you, as I suspect it has nothing to do with them at all.

To summarise your motors' overall state: it runs really rough or won't start, it emits white smoke when running, you have had the head tested and compression is all good.

Incidently, when trying to start the vehicle, I assume you know that you must not touch the accelerator pedal until steady tickover has been established? If you try to start the EDC motor and applying ANY throttle, it will disable the cold-start process and make starting the engine a lot more difficult.

The EDC models have a fly-by wire throttle which communicates with the ECU and IF malfunctioning will trigger the yellow "engine problem" dashboard light you referred to in your other thread.

Going back to basics, I would be looking at timing (has the timing belt been changed recently?) and fuel supply.


Timing:

As you are aware, pump and camshaft timing are controlled by a rubber cambelt. White smoke is often a sign of unburnt fuel due to a timing problem.

If not changed regularly they can cause engine running problems and risk collapse with serious consequences.

A stretched belt can allow the pump and camshaft pulleys to jump one or more ribs on the belt, therefore operating out of sync.

A worn woodruff key on the main crankshaft can allow for smaller movements of out-of-sync also.

A poorly installed replacement belt where the tensioner is not correctly set will allow the belt to jump with the same out-of-sync issues.

I would suggest that the timing needs to be checked and if there is any doubt about when the belt was last replaced, replace that and the tensioner plus idler.


Fuel supply, areas to check/rectify:

1. The fuel sedimenter at the back of the chassis rail drivers side, this needs checking/cleaning on a regular basis and rarely gets done. You will need to remove the bowl to check/clean. To do this you will need an 11mm ring spanner and remove the bolt on top of the unit which will release the bowl. Sometimes they stick on their rubber seal, so give it a light tap with a rubber mallet or similar, to remove it. Clean and reinstall.

2. Put in a new fuel filter - why wouldn't you at only a few quid. Fill with fresh diesel before installing.

3. Check that the lift pump is working correctly by opening the bleed screw on top of the filter housing and operating the lift pump crank arm. You should feel a little pressure and fuel should come out the bleed scrw hole.

4. Check the injection pump by slackening off one injector pump connecting pipe at a time and see if fuel comes through. If it does on all injectors the inj. pûmp will be ok.


All off this is suggested as a means of eliminating fuel supply from the potential problem list.



Food for thought I hope?

Cheers and good luck.
Dave
 
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Hi Dave,

Thanks for the VERY thorough diagnosis/explaination :D

I must admit, I didn't know about the 'no throttle pedal' thing on the EDC's so that probably won't help.

You're right about the symptoms though. The only thing that confuses me is that the guy who checked the compression said it started initially from cold and ran fine for about a minute then started to play up as described. My first encounter with the problem was from cold? So it's definitely an intermittent fault I guess.

The guy who is going to run the diagnostics (hopefully tommorrow) said he thought it sounded more like timing belt or something along that road, I hope you are both right and it isn't too damn expensive as I really need the truck roadworthy and can't afford to get a second mortgage out to fix it! :(

I did question the guy about the possibility that I may have moved some 'crud' around when I ran some injector cleaner through the tank, thought maybe I cleared some varnish/carbon that was stopping a worn injector dripping or something? But I'll see what the chap says when he sticks the PC on it.

JB
 
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