Serpentine Belt - Grand Cherokee

Having done 45,000 miles I reckon it is time to change the belt. Is
this something that should only be tackled by a pro?

Cheers,

SM

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:21:19 +0000 (UTC), SM
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Having done 45,000 miles I reckon it is time to change the belt. Is
>this something that should only be tackled by a pro?

I doesn't sound that difficult (WJ & WG, no idea about the earlier
one, but I don't suppose it's that much different, except it may not
have an automatic tensioner; I'd guess that with only 45,000 miles it
was WJ or WG anyway, but you don't specify ... also straight six of
V8? (not that it makes *that* much difference on this)).

REMOVAL
Belt tension is not adjustable. Belt adjustment is
maintained by an automatic (spring load) belt tensioner.
(1) Disconnect negative battery cable from battery.
(2) Loosen belt tensioner and remove belt (Fig. 56)
(Fig. 57).
INSTALLATION
(1) Check condition of all pulleys.
CAUTION: When installing the serpentine accessory
drive belt, the belt MUST be routed correctly. If
not, the engine may overheat due to the water
pump rotating in the wrong direction (Fig. 56) (Fig.
57).
(2) Install new belt (Fig. 56) (Fig. 57).
(3) With the drive belt installed, inspect the belt
wear indicator (Fig. 58). The gap between the tang
and the housing stop (measurement A) must not
exceed 24 mm (.94 inches). If the measurement
exceeds this specification replace the serpentine
accessory drive belt.

[From the WJ service manual.]

If you want the relevant pages, let me know, and I'll e-mail them to
you.

--

Simon Worby

I ALWAYS have a main dealer do the belt on any car. Costs around £100 and if
anything goes wrong you have their guarantee etc. Considering the belt alone
costs £60+ then it's a good deal in my opinion.

"Simon Worby" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:21:19 +0000 (UTC), SM
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Having done 45,000 miles I reckon it is time to change the belt. Is
> >this something that should only be tackled by a pro?
>
> I doesn't sound that difficult (WJ & WG, no idea about the earlier
> one, but I don't suppose it's that much different, except it may not
> have an automatic tensioner; I'd guess that with only 45,000 miles it
> was WJ or WG anyway, but you don't specify ... also straight six of
> V8? (not that it makes *that* much difference on this)).
>
> REMOVAL
> Belt tension is not adjustable. Belt adjustment is
> maintained by an automatic (spring load) belt tensioner.
> (1) Disconnect negative battery cable from battery.
> (2) Loosen belt tensioner and remove belt (Fig. 56)
> (Fig. 57).
> INSTALLATION
> (1) Check condition of all pulleys.
> CAUTION: When installing the serpentine accessory
> drive belt, the belt MUST be routed correctly. If
> not, the engine may overheat due to the water
> pump rotating in the wrong direction (Fig. 56) (Fig.
> 57).
> (2) Install new belt (Fig. 56) (Fig. 57).
> (3) With the drive belt installed, inspect the belt
> wear indicator (Fig. 58). The gap between the tang
> and the housing stop (measurement A) must not
> exceed 24 mm (.94 inches). If the measurement
> exceeds this specification replace the serpentine
> accessory drive belt.
>
> [From the WJ service manual.]
>
> If you want the relevant pages, let me know, and I'll e-mail them to
> you.
>
> --
>
> Simon Worby

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:28:06 -0000, "PJO" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I ALWAYS have a main dealer do the belt on any car. Costs around £100 and if
>anything goes wrong you have their guarantee etc. Considering the belt alone
>costs £60+ then it's a good deal in my opinion.

The belts aren't quite that much. The V8 belt is £42 inc. VAT, and the
4.0L belt is about a fiver more.

But I take your point. If it really is as little as £100 all-in, then
it might well be worth taking to the dealer if you're not happy
mechanically and/or the dealer isn't far away.

--

Regards,

Simon Worby

In message <[email protected]>, Simon Worby
<[email protected]> writes
>On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:28:06 -0000, "PJO" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>I ALWAYS have a main dealer do the belt on any car. Costs around £100 and if
>>anything goes wrong you have their guarantee etc. Considering the belt alone
>>costs £60+ then it's a good deal in my opinion.
>
>The belts aren't quite that much. The V8 belt is £42 inc. VAT, and the
>4.0L belt is about a fiver more.
>
>But I take your point. If it really is as little as £100 all-in, then
>it might well be worth taking to the dealer if you're not happy
>mechanically and/or the dealer isn't far away.
On the RHD versions with the 4.0L engine it takes less than five minutes
to fit a belt, all one has to do is swing the auto adjuster back to
remove and replace the belt, once the belt is on, just releases the auto
adjuster.
LHD models take a longer because one has to use tools to do the job.
--
Regards
Terry Birch

"SM" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Having done 45,000 miles I reckon it is time to change the belt. Is
> this something that should only be tackled by a pro?
>
> Cheers,
>
> SM


These things only last 45000 miles? I don't think so. I believe these
flat ribbed belts last at least 150,000 miles. Even the V belts should
last 100,000 miles these days if properly checked and tensioned.
Timing belts are a different story.

Huw


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On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 23:22:16 -0000, "Huw"
<hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

>
>"SM" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Having done 45,000 miles I reckon it is time to change the belt. Is
>> this something that should only be tackled by a pro?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> SM
>
>
>These things only last 45000 miles? I don't think so. I believe these
>flat ribbed belts last at least 150,000 miles. Even the V belts should
>last 100,000 miles these days if properly checked and tensioned.
>Timing belts are a different story.
>
>Huw


Hi Huw,

To be honest, I've got no idea how long they should last - I just err
on the side of caution - if a replacement is going to cost me just a
few quid, may as well get it done just in case. The vehicle is six
months out of warranty so no come back if it does fail.

SM

"SM" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 23:22:16 -0000, "Huw"
> <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >
> >"SM" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> Having done 45,000 miles I reckon it is time to change the belt.
Is
> >> this something that should only be tackled by a pro?
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> SM
> >
> >
> >These things only last 45000 miles? I don't think so. I believe
these
> >flat ribbed belts last at least 150,000 miles. Even the V belts
should
> >last 100,000 miles these days if properly checked and tensioned.
> >Timing belts are a different story.
> >
> >Huw
>
>
> Hi Huw,
>
> To be honest, I've got no idea how long they should last - I just
err
> on the side of caution - if a replacement is going to cost me just a
> few quid, may as well get it done just in case. The vehicle is six
> months out of warranty so no come back if it does fail.
>
> SM

All I can do is assure you that it is not a scheduled maintenance item
at that mileage and I have vehicles with over 120,000 miles with no
failure of this item. What is most likely to cause failure is the
spring loaded tensioner which, if it fails, will ruin a belt of any
age. Also failed bearings in any of the pulleys in contact with the
belt will cause rapid failure. Will you change all these also?

Huw




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On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:46:44 -0000, "Huw"
<hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

>
>"SM" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 23:22:16 -0000, "Huw"
>> <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"SM" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >news:[email protected]...
>> >> Having done 45,000 miles I reckon it is time to change the belt.
>Is
>> >> this something that should only be tackled by a pro?
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >>
>> >> SM
>> >
>> >
>> >These things only last 45000 miles? I don't think so. I believe
>these
>> >flat ribbed belts last at least 150,000 miles. Even the V belts
>should
>> >last 100,000 miles these days if properly checked and tensioned.
>> >Timing belts are a different story.
>> >
>> >Huw
>>
>>
>> Hi Huw,
>>
>> To be honest, I've got no idea how long they should last - I just
>err
>> on the side of caution - if a replacement is going to cost me just a
>> few quid, may as well get it done just in case. The vehicle is six
>> months out of warranty so no come back if it does fail.
>>
>> SM
>
>All I can do is assure you that it is not a scheduled maintenance item
>at that mileage and I have vehicles with over 120,000 miles with no
>failure of this item. What is most likely to cause failure is the
>spring loaded tensioner which, if it fails, will ruin a belt of any
>age. Also failed bearings in any of the pulleys in contact with the
>belt will cause rapid failure. Will you change all these also?
>
>Huw

No, I won't be changing them because it is probably not economical to
do so unless impending failure can be detected without overhauling the
pulleys! Although belt replacement is not a scheduled maintenance
itemin a Grand Cherokee, it is recommended that it is checked at
40,000 miles and every 10,000 miles thereafter.

"SM" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:46:44 -0000, "Huw"
> <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> No, I won't be changing them because it is probably not economical
to
> do so unless impending failure can be detected without overhauling
the
> pulleys! Although belt replacement is not a scheduled maintenance
> itemin a Grand Cherokee, it is recommended that it is checked at
> 40,000 miles and every 10,000 miles thereafter.
>

Checked, not renewed unless necessary. The checking is done in an
attempt to catch damage caused to the belt by wear in any component in
contact with it, either directly or indirectly. Renewing the belt at
such an inspection serves no purpose and is to no advantage. Even if
the fine teeth are cracked at right angles, as long as they remain
attached, the belt is fine.
If you take the service literally in your way, will you renew the
serpentine belt every 10,000 miles after the first 40,000?
Do you change the tyres at every scheduled inspection and before they
wear out or even show any significant visible wear? This is a proper
and valid comparison for which the consequences of failure of this
rubber wheel component is potentially catastrophic and the chances of
failure are higher than for a serpentine belt.
There is, of course, nothing to stop you changing the belt any time
you like. Smacks of 'recreational maintenance' though, even if you pay
someone to do it.

Huw


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On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:41:54 -0000, "Huw"
<hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

>
>"SM" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:46:44 -0000, "Huw"
>> <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>> No, I won't be changing them because it is probably not economical
>to
>> do so unless impending failure can be detected without overhauling
>the
>> pulleys! Although belt replacement is not a scheduled maintenance
>> itemin a Grand Cherokee, it is recommended that it is checked at
>> 40,000 miles and every 10,000 miles thereafter.
>>
>
>Checked, not renewed unless necessary. The checking is done in an
>attempt to catch damage caused to the belt by wear in any component in
>contact with it, either directly or indirectly. Renewing the belt at
>such an inspection serves no purpose and is to no advantage. Even if
>the fine teeth are cracked at right angles, as long as they remain
>attached, the belt is fine.
>If you take the service literally in your way, will you renew the
>serpentine belt every 10,000 miles after the first 40,000?
>Do you change the tyres at every scheduled inspection and before they
>wear out or even show any significant visible wear? This is a proper
>and valid comparison for which the consequences of failure of this
>rubber wheel component is potentially catastrophic and the chances of
>failure are higher than for a serpentine belt.
>There is, of course, nothing to stop you changing the belt any time
>you like. Smacks of 'recreational maintenance' though, even if you pay
>someone to do it.
>
>Huw

Correct - checked, NOT renewed unless it is necessary. If worn
bearings have caused the belt to wear then that primary problem has to
be addressed too. So, no, I would not renew the Serpentine belt every
10,000 miles after the first 40,000, but if it was showing no wear at
40,000 then I would get it checked every 10,000 to gauge if not its
performance, the state of the pulleys that you quite rightly say could
be the cause of belt wear.

While I agree with much of what you say, your comparison to changing
tyres is ridiculous.


>
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On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:41:54 -0000, "Huw"
<hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

>If you take the service literally in your way, will you renew the
>serpentine belt every 10,000 miles after the first 40,000?

That's not a logical interpretation. My understanding is to check the
belt at 40k and frequently thereafter. If you replace it, then you can
wait another 40k or so before re--checking.

>Do you change the tyres at every scheduled inspection and before they
>wear out or even show any significant visible wear? This is a proper
>and valid comparison for which the consequences of failure of this
>rubber wheel component is potentially catastrophic and the chances of
>failure are higher than for a serpentine belt.

I don't think this is a valid comparison.

The effects of tyre failure are acute and potentially damaging, but
generally fixed at the roadside by using the spare tyre. Furthermore,
*usually* you get warning of a tyre that may fail. And even if you
don't have a spare tyre, chances are you can get one quickly.

The effects of a failed serpentine belt are less dramatic, but
generally not fixable at the roadside (no parts) and would be very
frustrating as (whatever the weather conditions) you cannot continue
with your journey. If it happens you are stuck, possibly for quite
some time.

>There is, of course, nothing to stop you changing the belt any time
>you like. Smacks of 'recreational maintenance' though, even if you pay
>someone to do it.

Personally I will be changing mine at the first sign of "damaging"
wear as described in the service manual. For what it costs, I'd rather
not squeeze the extra 10k miles out of it with the risk of a
time-consuming breakdown.

--

Regards,

Simon Worby

"Simon Worby" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:41:54 -0000, "Huw"
> <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >If you take the service literally in your way, will you renew the
> >serpentine belt every 10,000 miles after the first 40,000?
>
> That's not a logical interpretation. My understanding is to check
the
> belt at 40k and frequently thereafter. If you replace it, then you
can
> wait another 40k or so before re--checking.

My interpretation is that you should check it frequently irrespective
of when it was changed after the first 40k due to possible wear in
other components in contact with the belt. Not that it will do any
good, because a failure might be reiltively sudden.



>
> >Do you change the tyres at every scheduled inspection and before
they
> >wear out or even show any significant visible wear? This is a
proper
> >and valid comparison for which the consequences of failure of this
> >rubber wheel component is potentially catastrophic and the chances
of
> >failure are higher than for a serpentine belt.
>
> I don't think this is a valid comparison.
>
> The effects of tyre failure are acute and potentially damaging, but
> generally fixed at the roadside by using the spare tyre.
Furthermore,
> *usually* you get warning of a tyre that may fail.

No you don't. No more than for a belt, which may well have noises from
its area before failure.


And even if you
> don't have a spare tyre, chances are you can get one quickly.

If your dealer does not have a spare belt then it is not fit to be a
dealer, especially if a number of its customers can be conned into
changing their belts on a regular basis.


>
> The effects of a failed serpentine belt are less dramatic, but
> generally not fixable at the roadside (no parts) and would be very
> frustrating as (whatever the weather conditions) you cannot continue
> with your journey. If it happens you are stuck, possibly for quite
> some time.

These belts are specifically designed to have a long, near maintenance
free life. Quite frankly, anyoe changing before 100k miles or before a
strip-down to change another component is IMHO daft. They just last
and last. 5000 hours is the minimum one should expect of one. This is
at least 150,000 miles. In fact the automatic tensioner and alternator
are far more likely to fail and the belt should be changed when one of
these goes. If the tensioner fails, then it goes without saying that
the belt will fail within a few short miles or sooner.



>
> >There is, of course, nothing to stop you changing the belt any time
> >you like. Smacks of 'recreational maintenance' though, even if you
pay
> >someone to do it.
>
> Personally I will be changing mine at the first sign of "damaging"
> wear as described in the service manual. For what it costs, I'd
rather
> not squeeze the extra 10k miles out of it with the risk of a
> time-consuming breakdown.
>

You may find some horizontal cracks in the teeth of these belts from
80.000 miles up, but these are usually cosmetic and do not effect
performance of the component. If the belts show wear due to the pulley
grooves cutting into the belt backing, then it is time to change. This
is unlikely before 150,000 miles.
These are not fan belts and are far and away more durable. Even the
best fan belts will last 80,000 to 100,000 miles these days if
properly tensioned, before replacement is advisable.

Huw


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