Risk factor with red deisel?

Hi, just wondering how many folk here have had a fuel check by customs and
excise? Do you think pickups would be more liable to such checks? Most
farmers around here seem to run on red but surely the risk isnt worth it?
Hope you all dont blast me on the morals of doing such a thing, im just an
honest farmer myself!!!

Phil.

In message <[email protected]>, Phil
<[email protected]> writes
>Hi, just wondering how many folk here have had a fuel check by customs and
>excise? Do you think pickups would be more liable to such checks? Most
>farmers around here seem to run on red but surely the risk isnt worth it?
>Hope you all dont blast me on the morals of doing such a thing, im just an
>honest farmer myself!!!
>
>Phil.
>
>
A couple of years ago at our local agricultural show they stood at the
exit and simply said to every driver, either a) confess, sign this form
and you can be on your way , or b) line up over there and wait while we
test every single diesel vehicle going out of here.

You pays your money ... But remember you are dealing with Customs And
Excise, and they are not trained to be bastards it just come naturally
to them.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:21:07 +0000, hugh wrote:

> A couple of years ago at our local agricultural show they stood at
> the exit and simply said to every driver, either a) confess, sign
> this form and you can be on your way , or b) line up over there and
> wait while we test every single diesel vehicle going out of here.

Thats seems a tad unfair on those running white. I think a) should
have been confess, sign this form, park your vehicle over there and
walk home.

> You pays your money ... But remember you are dealing with Customs
> And Excise, and they are not trained to be bastards it just come
> naturally to them.

No they simply no every trick in the book and then some. You really do
not want to mess with HMC&E.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

In message <[email protected]>, Dave
Liquorice <[email protected]> writes
>On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:21:07 +0000, hugh wrote:
>
>> A couple of years ago at our local agricultural show they stood at
>> the exit and simply said to every driver, either a) confess, sign
>> this form and you can be on your way , or b) line up over there and
>> wait while we test every single diesel vehicle going out of here.
>
>Thats seems a tad unfair on those running white. I think a) should
>have been confess, sign this form, park your vehicle over there and
>walk home.
>
I don't thin "fair" is in their vocabulary.
>> You pays your money ... But remember you are dealing with Customs
>> And Excise, and they are not trained to be bastards it just come
>> naturally to them.
>
>No they simply no every trick in the book and then some. You really do
>not want to mess with HMC&E.

Quite.

I'm not sure now what the top penalty is for mis-use of red diesel. Does
it run to confiscation of vehicle?
>

--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 12:37:39 +0000, hugh wrote:

> I'm not sure now what the top penalty is for mis-use of red diesel.
> Does it run to confiscation of vehicle?

I think so... yep. Look at Section 5 in the .pdf linked from this
page:

http://www.hmce.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.porta
l?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageHome_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000164&propert
yType=document

http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z3A63208A

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Phil" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi, just wondering how many folk here have had a fuel check by customs and
> excise?

I have not been checked but regularly pass roadside checks on my travels. It
is just luck that I have been pulled. Not that I have anything to hide of
course.


>Do you think pickups would be more liable to such checks?

Yes.


Most
> farmers around here seem to run on red but surely the risk isnt worth it?

I seriously doubt that they do. City dwellers with small diesel cars are
just as likely to try it but latest restrictions on the sale and recording
of marine diesel have probably hit the habit hard.
Farmers are less likely to offend because the likelyhood of either a
roadside test or a visit and test are so much higher and quite likely at
some point.



> Hope you all dont blast me on the morals of doing such a thing, im just an
> honest farmer myself!!!
>

Then don't even think of trying it or I, for one, will not worry about your
plight if you are brought to book.

Huw

> >Hope you all dont blast me on the morals of doing such a thing, im just
an
> >honest farmer myself!!!
> >
> >
Oh yes, very honest, we can all see that!

A friend of mine puts domestic heating oil (Kerosene?) sometimes mixed in
with the diesel in his SIIA 2.0L diesel Landrover. It's not red
(colourless), costs 20p litre and still works okay apparently. Even smells
the same as diesel.

What is legality of this and will it damage his engine?

Nevillef

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 00:07:29 GMT, nevillef wrote:

> What is legality of this and will it damage his engine?

It is illegal just like using red. It is also contains visible and
invisible markers, the dye used is yellow.

It's a little bit more volatile than diesel, may have a rather high
sulphur content and no upper cylinder/valve lubricant additives.

Where does he get it for 20p/l? The last 2000l I bought was 24.5p/l +
VAT @ 5%.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"nevillef" <F_CK@FF_SPAMMERS.COM> wrote in message
news:5PPSd.63$%[email protected]...
>A friend of mine puts domestic heating oil (Kerosene?) sometimes mixed in
>with the diesel in his SIIA 2.0L diesel Landrover. It's not red
>(colourless), costs 20p litre and still works okay apparently. Even smells
>the same as diesel.
>
> What is legality of this and will it damage his engine?
>
> Nevillef
>

Absolutely illegal and since a few customs officers must read this and have
powers that the police can only dream of, you can expect a knock or
battering ram at your door at 4.30am any morning now ;-)
Best of luck under interrogation. I am told that it is not a pleasant
experience.

Huw

You can, of course, use heating oil provided that you come clean to HM
C&E and pay the extra duty.

Regards

Steve G



Huw wrote:

>
> Absolutely illegal and since a few customs officers must read this and have
> powers that the police can only dream of, you can expect a knock or
> battering ram at your door at 4.30am any morning now ;-)
> Best of luck under interrogation. I am told that it is not a pleasant
> experience.
>
> Huw
>
>

On 2005-02-23, Huw <hedydd> wrote:

> Absolutely illegal and since a few customs officers must read this
> and have powers that the police can only dream of, you can expect a
> knock or battering ram at your door at 4.30am any morning now ;-)

Get that tinfoil hat out Huw!

I was told I'd get woken up at 2AM when I posted to alt.fan.landrover
about using veg oil in the landy, never happened in the end although I
stopped after being pulled over by the police for driving down a
six-foot-long bus lane while lost in a city. I had to coast to a halt
with the engine off then wait until they'd left before restarting,
otherwise the smell would have given me away!

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert

"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "nevillef" <F_CK@FF_SPAMMERS.COM> wrote in message
> news:5PPSd.63$%[email protected]...
> >A friend of mine puts domestic heating oil (Kerosene?) sometimes mixed in
> >with the diesel in his SIIA 2.0L diesel Landrover. It's not red
> >(colourless), costs 20p litre and still works okay apparently. Even
smells
> >the same as diesel.
> >
> > What is legality of this and will it damage his engine?
> >
> > Nevillef
> >
>
> Absolutely illegal and since a few customs officers must read this and
have
> powers that the police can only dream of, you can expect a knock or
> battering ram at your door at 4.30am any morning now ;-)
> Best of luck under interrogation. I am told that it is not a pleasant
> experience.
>
> Huw
>
Aye and they will happily calculate how much red you could have used during
the life of the vehicle and bill you for the tax on the lot
Derek

"Derek" <[email protected]> wrote >>
>> Absolutely illegal and since a few customs officers must read this and
> have
>> powers that the police can only dream of, you can expect a knock or
>> battering ram at your door at 4.30am any morning now ;-)
>> Best of luck under interrogation. I am told that it is not a pleasant
>> experience.
>>
>> Huw
>>
> Aye and they will happily calculate how much red you could have used
> during
> the life of the vehicle and bill you for the tax on the lot
> Derek
>
>

Hmm. Let's see. They stopped building SIIa about 1971. So that's over 30
years worth of back duty. Plus interest. Doubled as a fine. Plus costs.
Is it worth it?

Huw

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 23:13:40 GMT, "SteveG wrote:

> You can, of course, use heating oil provided that you come clean to
> HMC&E and pay the extra duty.

But you can't do this after the event. You need to apply for, and
obtain a licence before you can repay the rebate and you must repay
the rebate before you can use any rebated heavy oil in a road vehicle.

When applying for the licence you need to provide extremely good
reason(s) why you need to use rebated heavy oil in a road vehicle.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail