Recurring clutch slave problem, need advice please!

Hi Guys

For the 3rd time i'm having issues with my clutch slave on my 110 2.5na (i believe it's got an r380 and not the original lt77)
What seems to happen is the clutch slave is pushing the pushrod in, the clutch fork and rod stick in and then the slave pushes it's piston too far forward which allows it to leak all of the clutch fluid into the gearbox and out the drain hole.
This then leaves me with a clutch pedal with no feeling and the clutch stuck engaged so i can't even put it in gear and limp it home. Last time it happened i had some tools so removed the slave, pulled the clutch rod out and managed to drive it home by rev matching.

What do people think, i've replaced the slave twice with what i think is the correct part (part number 591231). Everytime i change it and manually move the clutch rod around i get about 2-3 months of regular driving before it sticks again. The clutch rod/fork seems fairly stiff so a blasted some wd40 in through the slave hole at it which seemed to loosen it up a bit.
If i push the rod in should it pop back out again on it's own or should it stay engaged?
I'm going to put it back together again today and see what happens.

Thanks
Jelly

That's an unusual engine/gearbox combo. I wonder if the bellhousing is a bit too long for the slave operating rod?

Regardless, why would the slave leak its fluid overtime, the stroke of the pedal will only allow so much travel?

Something wrong in the bellhousing, you need ti properly ID the gearbox but I reckon it meeds to be seperated from the engine to have a proper look, could be clutch fork related. What make of slaves did you fit/?

The slave doesn't leak overtime, when it's working it works brilliantly, clutch feels perfect and engages fine, its just fine until suddenly the slave overextends itself and dumps all the fluid out at once.
Just been out and had a look. Clutch pushrod hasn't pushed through the fork or anything.
Wound up removing the clutch pushrod and it seems really short at under 70cm. I've had a quick google and it looks like it should be closer to 80cm or even 90cm+ for an lt77. i think that might be my issue.

It could well be, or yhe fork is off the release bearing? What makes you think you have an R380? Some 200 tdi had an r380 from the factory, is yours one of them?

Is the rod clipped to the fork correctly?

Where is reverse, that will tell you what box you have.
Could the slave be sticking out due to something not returning and then next press of clutch pops it out.
Sticky release bearing maybe.

If it was down to rod length it would fail first press of the clutch would it not?

doriz said:

View attachment 138186

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I have the R380 pattern so thats that confirmed. Previous owner put it in for some reason.

nobber said:

If it was down to rod length it would fail first press of the clutch would it not?

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I'm thinking the slave cylinder can push far enough forward to compensate for it being short a few mill but if i press the clutch hard enough then it goes to far and the piston pops out the front letting the fluid out. I'm going to try and track down the correct pushrod (which is think is a 77mm one where mine is more like 69mm) and try that. Failing that then i'll be ordering a full clutch kit and dropping the gearbox which i dont really fancy.

Are the slave part numbers the same for 7 & 380?, the latter had a short bell housing for tje 200 tdi, it might be worth giving ashcroft a call.

If it is an ex-army 110, they had a special "stumpy" bell housing to fit the R380 wher a LT77 used to be. It is possible that this bell housing uses different clutch parts. Try and find the casting number on the bell housing to confirm what you have.
http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/manual-gearboxes/short-bellhousing-r380.html

Rougharse Racing said:

If it is an ex-army 110, they had a special "stumpy" bell housing to fit the R380 wher a LT77 used to be. It is possible that this bell housing uses different clutch parts. Try and find the casting number on the bell housing to confirm what you have.
http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/manual-gearboxes/short-bellhousing-r380.html

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I have this gearbox, there is a little more to it than a short bellhousing it also has a short input shaft. It uses the standard LT77/R380 slave but a different release bearing - UTJ100210 which is shorter then FTC5200 - unless it is not a stumpy but a R380 from a Defender with the longer bellhousing and something's been moved about.

So being that the UTJ100210 is shorter, then if it didn't "belong" I could see it could be possible to pump the slave out too far.

It does sound like there is a mismatch rather than anything else, somehow with the slave at full extension it is not enough and it can keep going. I wonder if the fork is pushing through on the pivot point, thus the fork has moved further away from the slave allowing for more travel...

I've had a couple of clutch forks wear through on heir pivot and that wasn't sufficient for the slave cylinder's piston to pop out.

you do know in the pedal box there is a stop bolt to prevent the pedal from going too far? Have you adjusted this?

And have you checked that the master is returning properly?

Jelly said:

The clutch rod/fork seems fairly stiff so a blasted some wd40 in through the slave hole at it which seemed to loosen it up a bit.

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The clutch fork will be fairly stiff, it is pushing the diaphragm spring on the cover which is no easy task; it needs to clamp the driven plate hard enough to allow drive, so it is not just going to push in easily.

As said just above, have you adjusted the master, i.e. backed the nut off so that the master can fully return?

Hi All

Thanks so much for your replies, been a bit busy with work so the 110's just sat for a bit.

. I wonder if the fork is pushing through on the pivot point said:

you do know in the pedal box there is a stop bolt to prevent the pedal from going too far? Have you adjusted this?

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I've not touched that bolt but it is there and it is stopping the pedal from going all the way to the floor. I might extend it a bit and see how it feels.

nobber said:

And have you checked that the master is returning properly?

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The last time i had this issue i replaced the master, i adjusted it then and it felt pretty much the same as the old one so don't think thats got any issues.

discomania said:

The clutch fork will be fairly stiff, it is pushing the diaphragm spring on the cover which is no easy task; it needs to clamp the driven plate hard enough to allow drive, so it is not just going to push in easily.

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I'd have thought it would have been stiff being pushed in, it pushes in but then doesn't want to pop out again very easily, it makes me think it might be gummed/rusted up and is why it's getting stuck engaged.

While a friend was getting his freelander sorted at a local landy specialist their mechanics reckon as some of you that the pushrod might have worn down/always been the wrong length and that might be the issue. I'm going to get another one and give it a try.
what do we think might happen if i put one in thats too long? Would the slave not be able to extend to full length and so my clutch might not go down all the way?

Jelly said:

Hi All

Thanks so much for your replies, been a bit busy with work so the 110's just sat for a bit.


I've not touched that bolt but it is there and it is stopping the pedal from going all the way to the floor. I might extend it a bit and see how it feels.

The last time i had this issue i replaced the master, i adjusted it then and it felt pretty much the same as the old one so don't think thats got any issues.

I'd have thought it would have been stiff being pushed in, it pushes in but then doesn't want to pop out again very easily, it makes me think it might be gummed/rusted up and is why it's getting stuck engaged.

While a friend was getting his freelander sorted at a local landy specialist their mechanics reckon as some of you that the pushrod might have worn down/always been the wrong length and that might be the issue. I'm going to get another one and give it a try.
what do we think might happen if i put one in thats too long? Would the slave not be able to extend to full length and so my clutch might not go down all the way?

Click to expand...

If the push rod won't return then something is seizing up inside the bell-housing, or for some reason the cover is not pushing back - that is why the piston is leaking as it is not being pushed back and it is then near popping out. So you push the clutch, the rod doesn't come back so the piston is not pushed home, then you can press the pedal again and the piston is being pushed too far.

I think you are going to need to split the engine and gearbox and have a look/replace everything when you are in there. I wonder if your clutch cover diaphragm pivot ring has broken - it can do odd things to a clutch.