Rear Diff and Haldex Unit

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GraemeWright51

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I have an 08 FL2 DT4 with 70K miles on the clock. Recently had the rear diff replaced as the diff bearing were shot. Now the Haldex Unit (which was okay) is now showing a fault and throwing out all the Terrain Response System. The message showing is 'Loss of Traction' on the dash mounted computer screen. Is there a compatibility issue between Diff and Haldex? Are the two unit not interchangeable? Anyone had any similar experiences? Hope to hear from anyone.

Thanks for reading this. Graeme Wright
 
I don't know much about the FL2 Haldex unit but my wife had a VW Tiguan which suffered Haldex failure and oil leakage at 55K miles. When I took it to VW the lead tech told me the unit had done well to last 55K miles. Apparently lots fail well before that!!
 
My ex Skoda a Yeti used a Haldex gen 4 system and it was fine. Not heard of any failing. I know if one that had done 100,000 miles in 2 1/2 years. Mine I sold at 41k without any problems.
 
You need to know the code that's stored before you can know whats giving you the issue.

Any dtc reader which gives you the P code would work.
 
EeEk said:
Changed a few on Ford Kugas :) Usually the front bit...not the actual diff itself.
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That's the Haldex unit ;)
Some cars appear to fail pretty quickly, I suspect that the way the 4X4 system is programmed is a major factor there!
VW gearboxes also suffer output flange drive failure.
 
Epicuser said:
My ex Skoda a Yeti used a Haldex gen 4 system and it was fine. Not heard of any failing. I know if one that had done 100,000 miles in 2 1/2 years. Mine I sold at 41k without any problems.
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I suspect that frequency of failure will depend on how often the unit is called upon to engage drive to the rear. In my eyes it's a complicated, cheap and nasty substitute for a centre diff and much more complicated than a VCU.
Surprisingly, even very expensive cars like the Buggati Veyron use Haldex as do some of the Audi Quatro range
 
Nodge68 said:
The advantage with the VCU over the Haldex is cost!! I'd much rather spend £250 for a recon VCU and bearings every 60K miles than the 3 figures a Haldex costs with an unknown lifespan!!
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The advantage of a centre diff over a Haldex or a VCU is that it gives proper full time 4WD and rarely fails.
 
Datatek said:
The advantage of a centre diff over a Haldex or a VCU is that it gives proper full time 4WD and rarely fails.
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Maybe, but probably 99% of people don't need full time 4x4 and the associated cost of running it which is why these systems exist. They work very well in my experience of both Haldex and VCU. The advantage of Haldex over VCU as I understand it is that it can be programmed and remapped to whatever split you want to give the handling characteristics you require.

My Yeti from stationary was about 50/50, then changed to about 96/4 front biased, to give the best possible fuel economy. It reacted very quickly to a wheel slip and provided drive where required in the blink of an eye. I think it is better than a VCU simply because of that and why LR moved to the Haldex. But it is more expensive, but all manufacturers are trying to lower the CO2 emissions and this is a big help in that direction. A centre diff may be simple and cheap but over the life of the car is not efficient and increases CO2 which is a big no no.

For the vast majority of people the Haldex will work fine and won't fail. By the very nature, people will report more problems with their cars on forums, than will say anything else. Only a very tiny proportion of owners will use a forum, and generally only when they have a problem. Hence the large number of posts 'I'm a noob, help.....' And the 'high' number of failures reported.
 
Epicuser said:
Maybe, but probably 99% of people don't need full time 4x4 and the associated cost of running it which is why these systems exist. They work very well in my experience of both Haldex and VCU. The advantage of Haldex over VCU as I understand it is that it can be programmed and remapped to whatever split you want to give the handling characteristics you require.

My Yeti from stationary was about 50/50, then changed to about 96/4 front biased, to give the best possible fuel economy. It reacted very quickly to a wheel slip and provided drive where required in the blink of an eye. I think it is better than a VCU simply because of that and why LR moved to the Haldex. But it is more expensive, but all manufacturers are trying to lower the CO2 emissions and this is a big help in that direction. A centre diff may be simple and cheap but over the life of the car is not efficient and increases CO2 which is a big no no.

For the vast majority of people the Haldex will work fine and won't fail. By the very nature, people will report more problems with their cars on forums, than will say anything else. Only a very tiny proportion of owners will use a forum, and generally only when they have a problem. Hence the large number of posts 'I'm a noob, help.....' And the 'high' number of failures reported.
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Since my P38 can manage close to 30mpg cruising and 24 mpg around and about, I don't see full time 4 x 4 as imposing any significant running cost.
VCU's and Haldex are mainly about construction cost & weight. I can't see that a hydraulically operated slipping clutch is likely to be more mechanically efficient than a diff and even if you remove the prop, the rear diff & drive shafts are still absorbing power.
 
Datatek said:
Since my P38 can manage close to 30mpg cruising and 24 mpg around and about, I don't see full time 4 x 4 as imposing any significant running cost.
VCU's and Haldex are mainly about construction cost & weight. I can't see that a hydraulically operated slipping clutch is likely to be more mechanically efficient than a diff and even if you remove the prop, the rear diff & drive shafts are still absorbing power.
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The Haldex is disconnected what not in use. The figure of 4% can only be from oil taking some drive when it's turned off. The Haldex uses clutches so can't slip constantly or a very short service life would result.
Does the P38 use a VCU across the centre diff? If not an open centre diff can't really be considered a proper 4X4. I've a friend who's TD5 has required my Freelander's assistance on mud twice!! Mostly because his Disco doesn't have any kind of centre locking diff!! It relies on TC which just isn't the same. In mud it spins 1 wheel helplessly!!
I'd like to think the P38 was better than that.
 
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Nodge68 said:
The Haldex is disconnected what not in use. The figure of 4% can only be from oil taking some drive when it's turned off. The Haldex uses clutches so can't slip constantly or a very short service life would result.
Does the P38 use a VCU across the centre diff? If not an open centre diff can't really be considered a proper 4X4. I've a friend who's TD5 has required my Freelander's assistance on mud twice!! Mostly because his Disco doesn't have any kind of centre locking diff!! It relies on TC which just isn't the same. In mud it spins 1 wheel helplessly!!
I'd like to think the P38 was better than that.
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Yes, the P38 has a stupid cheapskate VCU across the centre diff rather than a lockable or LSD diff.:mad:
Even with an open diff, traction is applied evenly over all 4 wheel reducing the likelyhood of slip in the first place, with a VCU or Haldex, the front wheels have to start to spin before rear traction is engages, so, IMO they are not real 4WD although they work well enough in most conditions.
TC as you say is useless, another cheapskate option rather than fitting LSD's or Torsen diffs. On the P38, TC will only work for a very short time to prevent the brakes from cooking.
TC sounds good in the showroom, close to useless in practice:rolleyes:
My understanding of the Haldex is that it does indeed use slipping clutches as the means of aportioning the percentage of drive to the rear, much like the variable lock up clutch in a modern torque convetor.
 
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what actually fails on the haldex or is it that they havn,t failed.Could it be that they just need a good service by taking them off the vehicle and changing oil and filters and checking the pump.What are the main symptoms when the haldex is not working correctly.I,m speaking of a FL2 with 3rd gen haldex ??
 
threelander321 said:
what actually fails on the haldex or is it that they havn,t failed.Could it be that they just need a good service by taking them off the vehicle and changing oil and filters and checking the pump.What are the main symptoms when the haldex is not working correctly.I,m speaking of a FL2 with 3rd gen haldex ??
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Lots of VW, Audi and Volvo Haldex units are reported to be suffering pump failure. Our VW Tiguan also suffered Haldex pump failure at 55K miles.
You could ask @Austin at Bell Engineering, as they actually fix them. ;)
 
From what I read they do benefit from a change of filter and oil, apparently the filter gets quite made up, so a good clean out should help.
Mine only has 25k on it but I wondered if an early change may give it chance of a longer life.
I understand Bell do a service.
 
Nodge68 said:
Lots of VW, Audi and Volvo Haldex units are reported to be suffering pump failure. Our VW Tiguan also suffered Haldex pump failure at 55K miles.
You could ask @Austin at Bell Engineering, as they actually fix them. ;)
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The reason i ask is when i put my auto box in reverse theres a noise not a loud nouse but its like sometings locking in it also does it when i put it back in drive.its like its getting a message to it then you can here it lock in.Theres no noise after or before just this locking in noise.Is this normal ??.
 
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