Q:Right-Lock lockers

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Z

Zenteren

Guest
I'm owner of a Suzuki samurai. It has a rear 100% manual operating
locker. I'm wondering if I put Detroit Right Lock front locker, how will
this affect on cornering on pavement roads, and slippery surfaces like mud
and ice when all four wheels are in drive, and will this be a problem if it
is in rear wheel drive and with locked hubs in front. I'm using this car as
a daily driver.


 
Is the locker in the rear a cable operated locker?
To answer the other questions....when operating lockers on pavement, the
vehicle will "grab" during turning....while in mud and snow, ALL four wheels
will be driving the vehicle....making it VERY stable and very good to drive
Cheers Willie
"Zenteren" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm owner of a Suzuki samurai. It has a rear 100% manual operating
> locker. I'm wondering if I put Detroit Right Lock front locker, how will
> this affect on cornering on pavement roads, and slippery surfaces like mud
> and ice when all four wheels are in drive, and will this be a problem if

it
> is in rear wheel drive and with locked hubs in front. I'm using this car

as
> a daily driver.
>
>



 
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:26:39 -0800, "willie" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>:|Is the locker in the rear a cable operated locker?
>:|To answer the other questions....when operating lockers on pavement, the
>:|vehicle will "grab" during turning....while in mud and snow, ALL four wheels
>:|will be driving the vehicle....making it VERY stable and very good to drive
>:|Cheers Willie


if you call weaving caused by a rear locker locking and unlocking with
power application on sweeping turns, the rear completely breaking
loose and turning the vehicle sideways (instead of just a wheel
spinning) and the front end plowing due to a front locker stable...
than you've got a much different definition of stability than I.


Zenteren,

any auto locker in the front will cause the front to plow in turns as
a locker powers the slower moving inside wheel over the outer, faster
rotating wheel with an open diff. I think you'll be sorely
disappointed in the driveability problems caused by a front auto
locker.

as I always tell my wife, it's a hell of alot more important to be
able to steer, than it is to go.

-Bret


>:|"Zenteren" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>:|news:[email protected]...
>:|> I'm owner of a Suzuki samurai. It has a rear 100% manual operating
>:|> locker. I'm wondering if I put Detroit Right Lock front locker, how will
>:|> this affect on cornering on pavement roads, and slippery surfaces like mud
>:|> and ice when all four wheels are in drive, and will this be a problem if
>:|it
>:|> is in rear wheel drive and with locked hubs in front. I'm using this car
>:|as
>:|> a daily driver.
>:|>
>:|>
>:|


 
OK. If I understand it clearly, the automatic locker in the front will not
disconnect while making turn like the rear one do???



"Bret Chase" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:26:39 -0800, "willie" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >:|Is the locker in the rear a cable operated locker?
> >:|To answer the other questions....when operating lockers on pavement,

the
> >:|vehicle will "grab" during turning....while in mud and snow, ALL four

wheels
> >:|will be driving the vehicle....making it VERY stable and very good to

drive
> >:|Cheers Willie

>
> if you call weaving caused by a rear locker locking and unlocking with
> power application on sweeping turns, the rear completely breaking
> loose and turning the vehicle sideways (instead of just a wheel
> spinning) and the front end plowing due to a front locker stable...
> than you've got a much different definition of stability than I.
>
>
> Zenteren,
>
> any auto locker in the front will cause the front to plow in turns as
> a locker powers the slower moving inside wheel over the outer, faster
> rotating wheel with an open diff. I think you'll be sorely
> disappointed in the driveability problems caused by a front auto
> locker.
>
> as I always tell my wife, it's a hell of alot more important to be
> able to steer, than it is to go.
>
> -Bret
>
>
> >:|"Zenteren" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >:|news:[email protected]...
> >:|> I'm owner of a Suzuki samurai. It has a rear 100% manual

operating
> >:|> locker. I'm wondering if I put Detroit Right Lock front locker, how

will
> >:|> this affect on cornering on pavement roads, and slippery surfaces

like mud
> >:|> and ice when all four wheels are in drive, and will this be a problem

if
> >:|it
> >:|> is in rear wheel drive and with locked hubs in front. I'm using this

car
> >:|as
> >:|> a daily driver.
> >:|>
> >:|>
> >:|

>



 
On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:48:53 +0100, "Zenteren"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>:|OK. If I understand it clearly, the automatic locker in the front will not
>:|disconnect while making turn like the rear one do???
>:|
>:|



an auto locker works by letting one wheel overrun the other. by doing
this, the slower moving tire is the one that is recieving the engine's
power, causing some very significant understeer.

with an open differential, the torque is split 50/50 until a wheel
looses traction, then the spinning wheel recieves 100% of the torque.
this leaves the other wheel to track along and maintain lateral
stability.

*I* would only consider putting in a front auto locker in a vehicle
that was trail only....they make for some sometimes unpredictable
handling.

-Bret
>:|"Bret Chase" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>:|news:[email protected]...
>:|> On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:26:39 -0800, "willie" <[email protected]>
>:|> wrote:
>:|>
>:|> >:|Is the locker in the rear a cable operated locker?
>:|> >:|To answer the other questions....when operating lockers on pavement,
>:|the
>:|> >:|vehicle will "grab" during turning....while in mud and snow, ALL four
>:|wheels
>:|> >:|will be driving the vehicle....making it VERY stable and very good to
>:|drive
>:|> >:|Cheers Willie
>:|>
>:|> if you call weaving caused by a rear locker locking and unlocking with
>:|> power application on sweeping turns, the rear completely breaking
>:|> loose and turning the vehicle sideways (instead of just a wheel
>:|> spinning) and the front end plowing due to a front locker stable...
>:|> than you've got a much different definition of stability than I.
>:|>
>:|>
>:|> Zenteren,
>:|>
>:|> any auto locker in the front will cause the front to plow in turns as
>:|> a locker powers the slower moving inside wheel over the outer, faster
>:|> rotating wheel with an open diff. I think you'll be sorely
>:|> disappointed in the driveability problems caused by a front auto
>:|> locker.
>:|>
>:|> as I always tell my wife, it's a hell of alot more important to be
>:|> able to steer, than it is to go.
>:|>
>:|> -Bret
>:|>
>:|>
>:|> >:|"Zenteren" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>:|> >:|news:[email protected]...
>:|> >:|> I'm owner of a Suzuki samurai. It has a rear 100% manual
>:|operating
>:|> >:|> locker. I'm wondering if I put Detroit Right Lock front locker, how
>:|will
>:|> >:|> this affect on cornering on pavement roads, and slippery surfaces
>:|like mud
>:|> >:|> and ice when all four wheels are in drive, and will this be a problem
>:|if
>:|> >:|it
>:|> >:|> is in rear wheel drive and with locked hubs in front. I'm using this
>:|car
>:|> >:|as
>:|> >:|> a daily driver.
>:|> >:|>
>:|> >:|>
>:|> >:|
>:|>
>:|


 
In fact my car is a trail only machine, and works in mud and loose ground,
never on the rocks. The only distance I drive on the street is to get to the
trail.
I often drive in the forest and long hills with lot's of sharp corners where
you don't won't to loose speed or get out of the track, and the worst thing
that could happen is that I don't won't to get out of the car to disconnect
front hubs to pass the corner cause automatic locker will engage in corner.
I asked more than 20 people via e-mail and I received 20 different answers.
Some of them were telling me that they are driving better in muddy corners
with front auto locker, and others are telling that they cannot imagine to
drive through muddy corners with front auto locker.
I have friend who has a rear auto locker in Suzuki and while passing corners
on road diff sounds like "click-click....click" because he disconnects if
there is any speed limits in wheel travel, but when one wheel loose traction
the torque is transmitted through the locker 50% on each wheel.
I don't see any difference why front locker shouldn't act like the rear one.




"Bret Chase" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:48:53 +0100, "Zenteren"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >:|OK. If I understand it clearly, the automatic locker in the front will

not
> >:|disconnect while making turn like the rear one do???
> >:|
> >:|

>
>
> an auto locker works by letting one wheel overrun the other. by doing
> this, the slower moving tire is the one that is recieving the engine's
> power, causing some very significant understeer.
>
> with an open differential, the torque is split 50/50 until a wheel
> looses traction, then the spinning wheel recieves 100% of the torque.
> this leaves the other wheel to track along and maintain lateral
> stability.
>
> *I* would only consider putting in a front auto locker in a vehicle
> that was trail only....they make for some sometimes unpredictable
> handling.
>
> -Bret
> >:|"Bret Chase" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >:|news:[email protected]...
> >:|> On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:26:39 -0800, "willie" <[email protected]>
> >:|> wrote:
> >:|>
> >:|> >:|Is the locker in the rear a cable operated locker?
> >:|> >:|To answer the other questions....when operating lockers on

pavement,
> >:|the
> >:|> >:|vehicle will "grab" during turning....while in mud and snow, ALL

four
> >:|wheels
> >:|> >:|will be driving the vehicle....making it VERY stable and very good

to
> >:|drive
> >:|> >:|Cheers Willie
> >:|>
> >:|> if you call weaving caused by a rear locker locking and unlocking

with
> >:|> power application on sweeping turns, the rear completely breaking
> >:|> loose and turning the vehicle sideways (instead of just a wheel
> >:|> spinning) and the front end plowing due to a front locker stable...
> >:|> than you've got a much different definition of stability than I.
> >:|>
> >:|>
> >:|> Zenteren,
> >:|>
> >:|> any auto locker in the front will cause the front to plow in turns as
> >:|> a locker powers the slower moving inside wheel over the outer, faster
> >:|> rotating wheel with an open diff. I think you'll be sorely
> >:|> disappointed in the driveability problems caused by a front auto
> >:|> locker.
> >:|>
> >:|> as I always tell my wife, it's a hell of alot more important to be
> >:|> able to steer, than it is to go.
> >:|>
> >:|> -Bret
> >:|>
> >:|>
> >:|> >:|"Zenteren" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >:|> >:|news:[email protected]...
> >:|> >:|> I'm owner of a Suzuki samurai. It has a rear 100% manual
> >:|operating
> >:|> >:|> locker. I'm wondering if I put Detroit Right Lock front locker,

how
> >:|will
> >:|> >:|> this affect on cornering on pavement roads, and slippery

surfaces
> >:|like mud
> >:|> >:|> and ice when all four wheels are in drive, and will this be a

problem
> >:|if
> >:|> >:|it
> >:|> >:|> is in rear wheel drive and with locked hubs in front. I'm using

this
> >:|car
> >:|> >:|as
> >:|> >:|> a daily driver.
> >:|> >:|>
> >:|> >:|>
> >:|> >:|
> >:|>
> >:|

>



 
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:47:34 +0100, "Zenteren"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>:|In fact my car is a trail only machine, and works in mud and loose ground,
>:|never on the rocks. The only distance I drive on the street is to get to the
>:|trail.
>:|I often drive in the forest and long hills with lot's of sharp corners where
>:|you don't won't to loose speed or get out of the track, and the worst thing
>:|that could happen is that I don't won't to get out of the car to disconnect
>:|front hubs to pass the corner cause automatic locker will engage in corner.
>:|I asked more than 20 people via e-mail and I received 20 different answers.
>:|Some of them were telling me that they are driving better in muddy corners
>:|with front auto locker, and others are telling that they cannot imagine to
>:|drive through muddy corners with front auto locker.
>:|I have friend who has a rear auto locker in Suzuki and while passing corners
>:|on road diff sounds like "click-click....click" because he disconnects if
>:|there is any speed limits in wheel travel, but when one wheel loose traction
>:|the torque is transmitted through the locker 50% on each wheel.
>:|I don't see any difference why front locker shouldn't act like the rear one.
>:|
>:|


it *does* act like the rear one, but the rear isn't responsible for
steering the vehicle.

I'll put it to you this way... at work I operate a Caterpillar TH63
telehandler. it has a front locker in it and 47" tall tires. when I
am in a couple of feet of mud and engage the front locker, (it takes a
couple of feet for this 22,000lbs 4wd machine to lose traction) I
have very little steering input left as the front tires push sideways
to the outside of the turn. the same will happen to your vehicle. if
you're in a muddy corner the locker will be locked. it will unlock
ONLY if you're not on the gas. find someone with a detroit or other
auto locker (not a stock locking diff... they're not the same) in the
rear and drive their vehicle for a bit... watch what happens when you
hit the gas in the corner. then imagine if this was in your front
axle.

-Bret

>:|"Bret Chase" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>:|news:[email protected]...
>:|> On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:48:53 +0100, "Zenteren"
>:|> <[email protected]> wrote:
>:|>
>:|> >:|OK. If I understand it clearly, the automatic locker in the front will
>:|not
>:|> >:|disconnect while making turn like the rear one do???
>:|> >:|
>:|> >:|
>:|>
>:|>
>:|> an auto locker works by letting one wheel overrun the other. by doing
>:|> this, the slower moving tire is the one that is recieving the engine's
>:|> power, causing some very significant understeer.
>:|>
>:|> with an open differential, the torque is split 50/50 until a wheel
>:|> looses traction, then the spinning wheel recieves 100% of the torque.
>:|> this leaves the other wheel to track along and maintain lateral
>:|> stability.
>:|>
>:|> *I* would only consider putting in a front auto locker in a vehicle
>:|> that was trail only....they make for some sometimes unpredictable
>:|> handling.
>:|>
>:|> -Bret
>:|> >:|"Bret Chase" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>:|> >:|news:[email protected]...
>:|> >:|> On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:26:39 -0800, "willie" <[email protected]>
>:|> >:|> wrote:
>:|> >:|>
>:|> >:|> >:|Is the locker in the rear a cable operated locker?
>:|> >:|> >:|To answer the other questions....when operating lockers on
>:|pavement,
>:|> >:|the
>:|> >:|> >:|vehicle will "grab" during turning....while in mud and snow, ALL
>:|four
>:|> >:|wheels
>:|> >:|> >:|will be driving the vehicle....making it VERY stable and very good
>:|to
>:|> >:|drive
>:|> >:|> >:|Cheers Willie
>:|> >:|>
>:|> >:|> if you call weaving caused by a rear locker locking and unlocking
>:|with
>:|> >:|> power application on sweeping turns, the rear completely breaking
>:|> >:|> loose and turning the vehicle sideways (instead of just a wheel
>:|> >:|> spinning) and the front end plowing due to a front locker stable...
>:|> >:|> than you've got a much different definition of stability than I.
>:|> >:|>
>:|> >:|>
>:|> >:|> Zenteren,
>:|> >:|>
>:|> >:|> any auto locker in the front will cause the front to plow in turns as
>:|> >:|> a locker powers the slower moving inside wheel over the outer, faster
>:|> >:|> rotating wheel with an open diff. I think you'll be sorely
>:|> >:|> disappointed in the driveability problems caused by a front auto
>:|> >:|> locker.
>:|> >:|>
>:|> >:|> as I always tell my wife, it's a hell of alot more important to be
>:|> >:|> able to steer, than it is to go.
>:|> >:|>
>:|> >:|> -Bret
>:|> >:|>
>:|> >:|>
>:|> >:|> >:|"Zenteren" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>:|> >:|> >:|news:[email protected]...
>:|> >:|> >:|> I'm owner of a Suzuki samurai. It has a rear 100% manual
>:|> >:|operating
>:|> >:|> >:|> locker. I'm wondering if I put Detroit Right Lock front locker,
>:|how
>:|> >:|will
>:|> >:|> >:|> this affect on cornering on pavement roads, and slippery
>:|surfaces
>:|> >:|like mud
>:|> >:|> >:|> and ice when all four wheels are in drive, and will this be a
>:|problem
>:|> >:|if
>:|> >:|> >:|it
>:|> >:|> >:|> is in rear wheel drive and with locked hubs in front. I'm using
>:|this
>:|> >:|car
>:|> >:|> >:|as
>:|> >:|> >:|> a daily driver.
>:|> >:|> >:|>
>:|> >:|> >:|>
>:|> >:|> >:|
>:|> >:|>
>:|> >:|
>:|>
>:|


 
Ok I understand that. There is no way to put auto locker in my car, only
when it become a rockcrawling machine (never gonna happen). I
I think I'll save some money and buy front ARB air locker.



"Bret Chase" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:47:34 +0100, "Zenteren"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >:|In fact my car is a trail only machine, and works in mud and loose

ground,
> >:|never on the rocks. The only distance I drive on the street is to get

to the
> >:|trail.
> >:|I often drive in the forest and long hills with lot's of sharp corners

where
> >:|you don't won't to loose speed or get out of the track, and the worst

thing
> >:|that could happen is that I don't won't to get out of the car to

disconnect
> >:|front hubs to pass the corner cause automatic locker will engage in

corner.
> >:|I asked more than 20 people via e-mail and I received 20 different

answers.
> >:|Some of them were telling me that they are driving better in muddy

corners
> >:|with front auto locker, and others are telling that they cannot imagine

to
> >:|drive through muddy corners with front auto locker.
> >:|I have friend who has a rear auto locker in Suzuki and while passing

corners
> >:|on road diff sounds like "click-click....click" because he disconnects

if
> >:|there is any speed limits in wheel travel, but when one wheel loose

traction
> >:|the torque is transmitted through the locker 50% on each wheel.
> >:|I don't see any difference why front locker shouldn't act like the rear

one.
> >:|
> >:|

>
> it *does* act like the rear one, but the rear isn't responsible for
> steering the vehicle.
>
> I'll put it to you this way... at work I operate a Caterpillar TH63
> telehandler. it has a front locker in it and 47" tall tires. when I
> am in a couple of feet of mud and engage the front locker, (it takes a
> couple of feet for this 22,000lbs 4wd machine to lose traction) I
> have very little steering input left as the front tires push sideways
> to the outside of the turn. the same will happen to your vehicle. if
> you're in a muddy corner the locker will be locked. it will unlock
> ONLY if you're not on the gas. find someone with a detroit or other
> auto locker (not a stock locking diff... they're not the same) in the
> rear and drive their vehicle for a bit... watch what happens when you
> hit the gas in the corner. then imagine if this was in your front
> axle.
>
> -Bret
>
> >:|"Bret Chase" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >:|news:[email protected]...
> >:|> On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:48:53 +0100, "Zenteren"
> >:|> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >:|>
> >:|> >:|OK. If I understand it clearly, the automatic locker in the front

will
> >:|not
> >:|> >:|disconnect while making turn like the rear one do???
> >:|> >:|
> >:|> >:|
> >:|>
> >:|>
> >:|> an auto locker works by letting one wheel overrun the other. by

doing
> >:|> this, the slower moving tire is the one that is recieving the

engine's
> >:|> power, causing some very significant understeer.
> >:|>
> >:|> with an open differential, the torque is split 50/50 until a wheel
> >:|> looses traction, then the spinning wheel recieves 100% of the torque.
> >:|> this leaves the other wheel to track along and maintain lateral
> >:|> stability.
> >:|>
> >:|> *I* would only consider putting in a front auto locker in a vehicle
> >:|> that was trail only....they make for some sometimes unpredictable
> >:|> handling.
> >:|>
> >:|> -Bret
> >:|> >:|"Bret Chase" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >:|> >:|news:[email protected]...
> >:|> >:|> On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:26:39 -0800, "willie"

<[email protected]>
> >:|> >:|> wrote:
> >:|> >:|>
> >:|> >:|> >:|Is the locker in the rear a cable operated locker?
> >:|> >:|> >:|To answer the other questions....when operating lockers on
> >:|pavement,
> >:|> >:|the
> >:|> >:|> >:|vehicle will "grab" during turning....while in mud and snow,

ALL
> >:|four
> >:|> >:|wheels
> >:|> >:|> >:|will be driving the vehicle....making it VERY stable and very

good
> >:|to
> >:|> >:|drive
> >:|> >:|> >:|Cheers Willie
> >:|> >:|>
> >:|> >:|> if you call weaving caused by a rear locker locking and

unlocking
> >:|with
> >:|> >:|> power application on sweeping turns, the rear completely

breaking
> >:|> >:|> loose and turning the vehicle sideways (instead of just a wheel
> >:|> >:|> spinning) and the front end plowing due to a front locker

stable...
> >:|> >:|> than you've got a much different definition of stability than I.
> >:|> >:|>
> >:|> >:|>
> >:|> >:|> Zenteren,
> >:|> >:|>
> >:|> >:|> any auto locker in the front will cause the front to plow in

turns as
> >:|> >:|> a locker powers the slower moving inside wheel over the outer,

faster
> >:|> >:|> rotating wheel with an open diff. I think you'll be sorely
> >:|> >:|> disappointed in the driveability problems caused by a front

auto
> >:|> >:|> locker.
> >:|> >:|>
> >:|> >:|> as I always tell my wife, it's a hell of alot more important to

be
> >:|> >:|> able to steer, than it is to go.
> >:|> >:|>
> >:|> >:|> -Bret
> >:|> >:|>
> >:|> >:|>
> >:|> >:|> >:|"Zenteren" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >:|> >:|> >:|news:[email protected]...
> >:|> >:|> >:|> I'm owner of a Suzuki samurai. It has a rear 100%

manual
> >:|> >:|operating
> >:|> >:|> >:|> locker. I'm wondering if I put Detroit Right Lock front

locker,
> >:|how
> >:|> >:|will
> >:|> >:|> >:|> this affect on cornering on pavement roads, and slippery
> >:|surfaces
> >:|> >:|like mud
> >:|> >:|> >:|> and ice when all four wheels are in drive, and will this be

a
> >:|problem
> >:|> >:|if
> >:|> >:|> >:|it
> >:|> >:|> >:|> is in rear wheel drive and with locked hubs in front. I'm

using
> >:|this
> >:|> >:|car
> >:|> >:|> >:|as
> >:|> >:|> >:|> a daily driver.
> >:|> >:|> >:|>
> >:|> >:|> >:|>
> >:|> >:|> >:|
> >:|> >:|>
> >:|> >:|
> >:|>
> >:|

>



 

> Zenteren,
>
> any auto locker in the front will cause the front to plow in turns as
> a locker powers the slower moving inside wheel over the outer, faster
> rotating wheel with an open diff. I think you'll be sorely
> disappointed in the driveability problems caused by a front auto
> locker.
>
> as I always tell my wife, it's a hell of alot more important to be
> able to steer, than it is to go.
>
> -Bret
>


An automatic locker in the front is ok if he has manual hubs so he can
disengage it on the road.
--
____________________
Remove "X" from email address to reply.
 
I have manual hubs on the front axle, but that is not a min question.
The question is how will front locker act on mud and hard or loose ground
when all 4 wheels anre engaged including rear locker, will I be able to
steer on above surfaces with everything engaged???

"Chris Phillipo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> > Zenteren,
> >
> > any auto locker in the front will cause the front to plow in turns as
> > a locker powers the slower moving inside wheel over the outer, faster
> > rotating wheel with an open diff. I think you'll be sorely
> > disappointed in the driveability problems caused by a front auto
> > locker.
> >
> > as I always tell my wife, it's a hell of alot more important to be
> > able to steer, than it is to go.
> >
> > -Bret
> >

>
> An automatic locker in the front is ok if he has manual hubs so he can
> disengage it on the road.
> --
> ____________________
> Remove "X" from email address to reply.



 
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