p38 2.4 dse engine cutting out

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nisbeam

Active Member
Posts
201
Location
down in Cornwall
All advice gratefully received. This is an intermittent fault. It happens hot or cold at any speed. Sometime the car is OK for 2 days, other times it won't start of misfires on startup so badly we don't use it.
Checked fuel pump (new) and crankshaft sensor also replaced. I have cheked everything fuel wise, including now running on Shell V-Power but the symptoms are of a very brief (if repeated) electrical cut-out. Am sure this is electrical not fuel, and I can simulate the same thing if I remove the relay for the engine management system from the fuse box, i.e the ignition seems to work and the instrument display looks normal, but not power to the engine, it will not turn over. I have checked all the connectors to the BeCM with the engine running to see if I can wobble it and find the fault - no fault found. I have removed the under bonnet fuse box and done the same to all connectors - all seem OK but not too sure about this as it is difficult to check. I read somewhere the fuse box is prone to corrosion - wouldn't this be visible? mine looks like new.
So where to go now, advice gratefully received as I will scrap the car by the end of the month if I can't fix it. Thanks :confused:

Oops I meant 2.5 of dse course, perhaps that extra 100cc missing is the problem :)
 
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Hi i've got a similar problem, its only done it 3 times 2 times i had to get towed home, yesturday the revs went up with out me doing anything while doing 70mph then cut out and engine light, after a a few mins it will restart got 15 mins up the road and stopped again, now it still wont start and ive still got to recover it,

need to read the fault codes but last time i tried, it wouldnt talk to the ecu even tho i used the same equitment before on the car and it worked fine.

(sorry this doesn't help you nisbeam)
 
Steve. I had that problem earlier (about 5 months ago). It was the fuel pump. Had it replaced and car was working but also much smoother as it should have been. Faulty fuel pump will stop the car. Mine is not a fuel pump as it immediately picks up again (except when on tickover it will stall), so get your pump checked out. This can be done by checking the flow without dropping the tank. Hope this helps your problem.
 
I thought the car would still start / run as long as you have more then quarter of a tank of fuel mine was full to the top (so i've read on here)

Towed the car home last night 45 min trip at 50 - 60 mph and 3 hours after parking it up at home i went to lock it up and thought i'd try it, engine light went out so i knew it was going to start and it did,

Also I wouldn'd thought fuel pump would make the engine light come on.
 
steve's P38 RR said:
I thought the car would still start / run as long as you have more then quarter of a tank of fuel mine was full to the top (so i've read on here)

Towed the car home last night 45 min trip at 50 - 60 mph and 3 hours after parking it up at home i went to lock it up and thought i'd try it, engine light went out so i knew it was going to start and it did,

Also I wouldn'd thought fuel pump would make the engine light come on.
Click to expand...

No it won't, but a bad connection to number four injector will.
 
wammers said:
No it won't, but a bad connection to number four injector will.
Click to expand...

That was 1 of the 3 things i thought it mite be the others are injector pump or throttle pedel sensor.

£180 to spend on a guess is quite a lot on an old car though no probs if it fixes it tho
 
Update because someone may find this useful. The intermittent cutting out is FIXED :)
Although on the way I replaced fuel pump, crankshaft sensor, engine fuse box and ignition switch because each in turn seemed to be the cause until eliminated (watch eBay for some cheap spares soon).
It was a relay. Now before you say what a ****, I swapped out the relay in question for another in the same fuse box. So I wonder if they all are prone to degrade at the same rate when old. I am intending to buy a whole set & replace them all with new just in case. Anyway, in my case the offending single relay ( ignition) was replaced with one from a working RR and problem fixed. So lesson learned for me, change a relay with one that you know works, not one you assume is OK just because it is next to it in the fuse box !! Also interesting that I have seen many threads about changing the fuse box itself when 8+ years old, but mine was in fact OK, it is the relays that should be changed. :)
 
nisbeam said:
Update because someone may find this useful. The intermittent cutting out is FIXED :)
Although on the way I replaced fuel pump, crankshaft sensor, engine fuse box and ignition switch because each in turn seemed to be the cause until eliminated (watch eBay for some cheap spares soon).
It was a relay. Now before you say what a ****, I swapped out the relay in question for another in the same fuse box. So I wonder if they all are prone to degrade at the same rate when old. I am intending to buy a whole set & replace them all with new just in case. Anyway, in my case the offending single relay ( ignition) was replaced with one from a working RR and problem fixed. So lesson learned for me, change a relay with one that you know works, not one you assume is OK just because it is next to it in the fuse box !! Also interesting that I have seen many threads about changing the fuse box itself when 8+ years old, but mine was in fact OK, it is the relays that should be changed. :)
Click to expand...


mmmmm interesting, I also swopped my air con relay for my engine managment relay to see if that was stopping my from reading my fault code's (still he same tho) I looked at my 15 year old fuse box and it looked fine to an untrained eye.

I'm i right? what you are telling me to do is go nick all my mates relays out of his faultless HSE ???
 
Yes, well borrow a working one to see if it fixes the problem - it did with mine.
If not I have working fuse box I will be putting on eBay soon - changing my old one made no difference, I thought it looked like new inside. I suspect it may have been changed at some time earlier. Good luck with the relay
 
AArgh - it has started again :eek:
So changing the relay and instant fix was a co-incidence :doh:

Don't know where to go now. Have replaced fuel pump, fuse box, relays, ignition switch, crankshaft sensor. No error codes showing & most of time engine does not stop, just quick cut-out then keeps running. :(
 
nisbeam said:
AArgh - it has started again :eek:
So changing the relay and instant fix was a co-incidence :doh:

Don't know where to go now. Have replaced fuel pump, fuse box, relays, ignition switch, crankshaft sensor. No error codes showing & most of time engine does not stop, just quick cut-out then keeps running. :(
Click to expand...

Did you look at fuel shutoff vale and number four injector connections yet?
 
Hi, firstly this ain`t the magic answer, more some questions to try and help.
1. Does orange engine management light come on at any time?
2. When starting up, you mention a "misfire", is this like a back-fire on a petrol engine or more like the engine picking up on a couple of cylinders then the others coming in?
3. You say no error codes, so you`ve had it on Testbook?
4. As a shot in the dark could it be the engine stop solenoid cutting in/out?
5. No other faults or gremlins and all ok beforehand? Is the fault getting worse or appeared and been the same level since?
I agree it does sound like an intermittant elec fault, notoriously hard to locate if it`s a corroded/broken wire.
 
Not the fuel shut-off valve but number 4 injector yes - or rather the garage said they had check it. The plot thickened a bit last week as I also had a few occasions when it would not start at all, on one occasion leaving me stranded. The RAC man was convinced it was an ignition problem as he started it immediately by hot wiring in the fuse box - BUT I think it was co-incidence because a new fuse box , swapped relay and new ignition switch have not fixed the problem.
So I am trying to wobble every component I can find (with the engine running) so see if I can find the cause, no luck.
Can you tell me where to find the no4 injector connection , I found one connector on the left side of the engine block (facing forward), but actually disconnected it and the engine just kept on running :rolleyes:
 
nisbeam said:
Not the fuel shut-off valve but number 4 injector yes - or rather the garage said they had check it. The plot thickened a bit last week as I also had a few occasions when it would not start at all, on one occasion leaving me stranded. The RAC man was convinced it was an ignition problem as he started it immediately by hot wiring in the fuse box - BUT I think it was co-incidence because a new fuse box , swapped relay and new ignition switch have not fixed the problem.
So I am trying to wobble every component I can find (with the engine running) so see if I can find the cause, no luck.
Can you tell me where to find the no4 injector connection , I found one connector on the left side of the engine block (facing forward), but actually disconnected it and the engine just kept on running :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

What did he hot wire? A number four injector intermittant fault will not stop the engine but it will put it into limp mode limiting the available RPM, so if you are doing 70mph it will seem to miss, then if the fault clears run on again at low speeds it would just cause a loss of power. No start at all would lean towards a bad connection on the shut off valve, with this shut the engine cannot run. And an intermittant fault would cause it to miss the run on as the fault cleared.
 
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As I understand (vaguely/I`m sure Wammers will correct me) it: If you disconnect the #4 injector the management will substitute a suitable value in order to keep going but should throw up a fault code into store to be read by testbook.
 
Hi gtland, and thanks, in reply
1. Does orange engine management light come on at any time? - NO
2. When starting up, you mention a "misfire", is this like a back-fire on a petrol engine or more like the engine picking up on a couple of cylinders then the others coming in? THE ENGINE START NORMALLY (USUALLY) THEN AFTER A RANDOM TIME WILL CUT FOR A FRACTION OF A SECOND THEN CARRY ON. THERE IS NO SLOW DOWN OR LOSS OF POWER AS IN FUEL STARVATION. IF ON LOW REVS IT HAS ACTUALLY STOPPED A FEW TIMES - ONCE WHEN TURNING RIGHT, SUDDENLY NO POWER STEERING
3. You say no error codes, so you`ve had it on Testbook? YES MORE THAN ONCE INITIALLY SHOWED CRANKSHAT SENSOR FAULT SO THAT WAS REPLACED
4. As a shot in the dark could it be the engine stop solenoid cutting in/out? MAYBE, DON'T KNOW HOW TO CHECK
5. No other faults or gremlins and all ok beforehand? Is the fault getting worse or appeared and been the same level since? WAS OK UNTIL A FEW WEEKS AGO AROUND THE TIME WHEN THE BATTERY WENT FLAT - THIS HAPPENED ONLY ONCE , i TOOK OFF THE VEHICLE & CHARGED UP, BEEN OK SINCE, SHOW 12.4 VOLTS USING A METER WHEN SWITCHED OFF. PROBLEM SEEMS TO BE GETTING A BIT MORE FREQUENT & NOW ALSO THE OCCASIONAL WONT START ISSUE - TRY LATER AND IT WILL BE OK
 
wammers - sorry I don't know. But I think this only got past the real issue which is the intermittent loss of power (to the engine only - all other power stays on).
It just seems like a loose connection somewhere rather than a component fault, just don't know where to look. poked and prodded mostly everything I can see but unable to reproduce it deliberately
 
nisbeam said:
wammers - sorry I don't know. But I think this only got past the real issue which is the intermittent loss of power (to the engine only - all other power stays on).
It just seems like a loose connection somewhere rather than a component fault, just don't know where to look. poked and prodded mostly everything I can see but unable to reproduce it deliberately
Click to expand...

You are best getting a copy of RAVE and looking where the components are then checking them out. You are correct in one thing, it is most likely to be a bad connection somewhere rather than a failing component. Most electronic or electromagnetic items either work or they don't. There is no inbetween.
 
I`ve not had to change one myself, but looking at it, the stop solenoid (mounted on FIP) is only accessable if you take off the inlet manifold? Given the time and trouble to remove this here`s a coupla thoughts; If you remove it for testing maybe replace anyway to save time/trouble? Depends how much one costs and how much spare time you have. If taking off the inlet manifold, (I replaced my #4injector last year) I was advised to replace the water hose at end of block. This only costs a few quid but if it splits will dump all your coolant on the deck and is only replaceable with manifold off.
 
Just had a quick look and Rimmers are asking £95-ish for the stop solenoid. Maybe get cheaper, I dunno? If you`re going to play with this remember to get gaskets first, and remember Sod`s law so always get a coupla extra ones, and "O"rings, or you`ll damage one, it`ll be a Sunday, everywhere closed, etc.
 
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