Oil change coming up. What oil ??

H

Hirsty's

Guest

• Oct 14, 2004

• #1

I try to use the best oil I can for the 300 Tdi, whatever the cost. Last
year the local motor factor showed me Comma semi-synthetic oil ( as
recomended in his 'bible' ) and as I have heard that the other company
products tend to win quite a few reveiws I used it. Seems OK; certainly
seemed to make the engine a lot looser and responsive at start when I
changed it. I wonder what peoples thoughts are on the oil as I will reuse it
if it seems to be favorable.
I used to use Magnatec Castrol for a long time.
Have heard synthetics tend to seek out weakness in the seals and hence more
leaks( due to capilliary action ! )

--


" ..... it is the provenence of knowledge to speak, and it is the privelage
of wisdom to listen"

 

J

Jon

Guest

• Oct 14, 2004

• #2

I take the same approach on my 200Tdi. Have used Difflock's Fully
Synthetic oils for a couple of years now with very good results. Not
the cheapest though but a definate noticable improvement over
cheapo-bog-standardo oils i have used in the past.

The chap there is also very informative and you can by in 1L bottles
so you dont have stacks left in the garage.

I have MT75 in the Gearbox, Trojan in the axles and transfer case and
"the other one" they do in the engine - cant remeber its name though
(think thats the right way around!). For the sake of completeness I
have 1 shot in the swivels.

The engine oil is good, but i think the "best" / most noticable
differnce was when i changed the gearbox oil to MT75. Even after long
(2-3 hours plus) motorway runs at 70mph the gears dont crash or stick
when approaching round-abouts etc. Very good.

I have nothing to do with Difflock, but credit where its due. I think
these are good products.

Jon



On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:15:28 GMT, "Hirsty's" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I try to use the best oil I can for the 300 Tdi, whatever the cost. Last
>year the local motor factor showed me Comma semi-synthetic oil ( as
>recomended in his 'bible' ) and as I have heard that the other company
>products tend to win quite a few reveiws I used it. Seems OK; certainly
>seemed to make the engine a lot looser and responsive at start when I
>changed it. I wonder what peoples thoughts are on the oil as I will reuse it
>if it seems to be favorable.
>I used to use Magnatec Castrol for a long time.
> Have heard synthetics tend to seek out weakness in the seals and hence more
>leaks( due to capilliary action ! )

 

E

EMB

Guest

• Oct 14, 2004

• #3

Hirsty's wrote:
> I try to use the best oil I can for the 300 Tdi, whatever the cost. Last
> year the local motor factor showed me Comma semi-synthetic oil ( as
> recomended in his 'bible' ) and as I have heard that the other company
> products tend to win quite a few reveiws I used it. Seems OK; certainly
> seemed to make the engine a lot looser and responsive at start when I
> changed it. I wonder what peoples thoughts are on the oil as I will reuse it
> if it seems to be favorable.

We don't get Comma oils here in NZ but a quick look at their website
shows that their diesel oils (including the synthetics) only meet the
older (and lower) API specs of CF or CF-4. IMO any oil that doesn't
meet a spec newer than 10 years old (CF) or 14 years old (CF-4) should
be treated with due suspicion. Additionally they make and sell oil
additives - says a lot about their oils that they feel a need to market
additives for them too. I'd steer clear of the minor oil players - I
run PennzOil in my own vehicles, and either Pennz or Caltex products at
work. Caltex Delo 400 in a 15W/40 is semi-synthetic and would be ideal
for the Tdi. I'm sure our resident oil expert will have a more
technically supported opinion shortly.

> I used to use Magnatec Castrol for a long time.

Yuk - it's made to "stick to metal" and according to tests here it
carries all the swarf around the engine and doesn't deposit it in the
filter very well leading to increased engine wear.

> Have heard synthetics tend to seek out weakness in the seals and hence more
> leaks( due to capilliary action ! )

Only if you run with the ultra lightweight synthetics like the 0W30 and
similar, synthetic oils of the same viscosity as your normal mineral oil
don't seem to give much trouble in this regard.


--
EMB
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A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Oct 14, 2004

• #4

On or around Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:05:02 +0100, Jon
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>The engine oil is good, but i think the "best" / most noticable
>differnce was when i changed the gearbox oil to MT75. Even after long
>(2-3 hours plus) motorway runs at 70mph the gears dont crash or stick
>when approaching round-abouts etc. Very good.

the only thing I've found against 75 in the gearboxes is that it can be
balky and stiff when seriously cold.

 

H

Huw

Guest

• Oct 14, 2004

• #5

EMB wrote:
> Hirsty's wrote:
>> I try to use the best oil I can for the 300 Tdi, whatever the cost.
>> Last year the local motor factor showed me Comma semi-synthetic oil
>> ( as recomended in his 'bible' ) and as I have heard that the other
>> company products tend to win quite a few reveiws I used it. Seems
>> OK; certainly seemed to make the engine a lot looser and responsive
>> at start when I changed it. I wonder what peoples thoughts are on
>> the oil as I will reuse it if it seems to be favorable.
>
> We don't get Comma oils here in NZ but a quick look at their website
> shows that their diesel oils (including the synthetics) only meet
the
> older (and lower) API specs of CF or CF-4. IMO any oil that doesn't
> meet a spec newer than 10 years old (CF) or 14 years old (CF-4)
should
> be treated with due suspicion. Additionally they make and sell oil
> additives - says a lot about their oils that they feel a need to
> market additives for them too. I'd steer clear of the minor oil
> players - I run PennzOil in my own vehicles, and either Pennz or
> Caltex products at work. Caltex Delo 400 in a 15W/40 is
> semi-synthetic and would be ideal for the Tdi. I'm sure our resident
> oil expert will have a more technically supported opinion shortly.


I don't know who that is but I, for one, more ore less agree with you.
I didn't know Delo 400 had gone semi-synthetic though. Are you sure?
All TDi 200 and 300 engines have always needed an SHPD oil for their
standard service intervals. There is no reason today to use one with a
specification of ACEA E3 or/and API CH4 which are as good as anyone
should need in the most extreme of duty cycle.


>
>> I used to use Magnatec Castrol for a long time.
>
> Yuk - it's made to "stick to metal" and according to tests here it
> carries all the swarf around the engine and doesn't deposit it in
the
> filter very well leading to increased engine wear.

If it carries any wear particles around the engine then it will
certainly be pumped through the full flow filter and will therefore be
caught there if big enough to worry about.


Huw


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H

Huw

Guest

• Oct 14, 2004

• #6

Huw wrote:
There is no reason today to use one with a
> specification of ACEA E3 or/and API CH4 which are as good as anyone
> should need in the most extreme of duty cycle.
>

Correction.
There is no reason today ** NOT ** to use one with a
> specification of ACEA E3 or/and API CH4 which are as good as anyone
> should need in the most extreme of duty cycle.

Huw


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EMB

Guest

• Oct 14, 2004

• #7

Huw wrote:

> I don't know who that is but I, for one, more ore less agree with you.
> I didn't know Delo 400 had gone semi-synthetic though. Are you sure?

My error - there is a fully synthetic Delo 400 available too, but
Caltex's own tests show equal performance from the conventional Delo 400
range.


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EMB
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H

Hirsty's

Guest

• Oct 14, 2004

• #8

Not really sure what the specs should be but having had a look at the can
the listing at the front is

ACEA A1 B1

API SL CF

Does this mean they meet the new spec or not ??
The can of Magnatec GTD I have has;

API CF

ACEA B3

I presume this one is OK ??


Tia John H


"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Huw wrote:
> There is no reason today to use one with a
> > specification of ACEA E3 or/and API CH4 which are as good as anyone
> > should need in the most extreme of duty cycle.
> >
>
> Correction.
> There is no reason today ** NOT ** to use one with a
> > specification of ACEA E3 or/and API CH4 which are as good as anyone
> > should need in the most extreme of duty cycle.
>
> Huw
>
>
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>

 

H

Huw

Guest

• Oct 14, 2004

• #9

Hirsty's wrote:
> Not really sure what the specs should be but having had a look at
the
> can the listing at the front is
>
> ACEA A1 B1
>
> API SL CF
>
> Does this mean they meet the new spec or not ??
> The can of Magnatec GTD I have has;
>
> API CF
>
> ACEA B3
>
> I presume this one is OK ??
>
>
> Tia John H

I would not personally be happy with any of those specifications in a
200/300TDi.
You should specifically seek out and use an oil that meets either

ACEA E2 or better still E3 and E5. [E4 oil is better still but not
warranted for this application]

MB 228.1 or better 228.3 [228.5 is equivelent to E4 above and both are
generally synthetic oils for extreme long and severe duty]

API CG4 or better CH4 or CI4

Volvo VDS11 or VDS111

For those in the Southern Hemisphere JASO DHD1

Be aware that just because an oil might have the magic word
"synthetic" on the can, it does not follow that it even meets the
standards quoted above unless stated on the can or data sheet. There
is no justification to using the E4 or mb228.5 specification with
normal recommended drain intervals [perhaps I should not have
mentioned them] as all the 'better' specifications above will exceed
the manufacturers specification by a good margin.

Viscosity is a separate matter and 15w/40 is good almost anywhere
except where temperatures below -5C is routine [not just occasional]
where a 10w/30 or lighter oil according to application chart is
better.

Huw


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E

EMB

Guest

• Oct 14, 2004

• #10

Hirsty's wrote:
> Not really sure what the specs should be but having had a look at the can
> the listing at the front is
>
> ACEA A1 B1
>
> API SL CF


API CF is a 1994 diesel oil spec that has been surpassed 3 times since
then - it's likely to be obsoleted in the near future. An contemporary
oil meeting only this spec tends to be a sign of a lack of development
on the part of the manufacturer, and I'd prefer to use an oil with some
recent development.

ACEA ratings areat the link below - I'd be looking for a B4 compliant oil.

http://www.acea.be/ACEA/20020618PublicationsOilSequences.pdf


The link below gives details of the API classifications.

http://api-ep.api.org/filelibrary/Guidechart2002.pdf



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H

Huw

Guest

• Oct 14, 2004

• #11

EMB wrote:
> Huw wrote:
>
>> I don't know who that is but I, for one, more ore less agree with
>> you. I didn't know Delo 400 had gone semi-synthetic though. Are you
>> sure?
>
> My error - there is a fully synthetic Delo 400 available too, but
> Caltex's own tests show equal performance from the conventional Delo
> 400 range.

Perhaps you mean Delo Gold formulated with something called ISOSYN
technology but not specifically claiming to use synthetic base oil?
This monograde range of oils would not really be suitable AFAICS, not
only because it is a monograde [although this might be perfectly
acceptable where you are] but it has large gaps in its specification
list. CCMC D4 for instance but not the SHPD entry level D5, although
both specs are long obsolete. mb 228 but not 228.1 through to 228.3.
These ommisions could be because the oil is a monograde and the specs
call for multigrade, I'm not sure and I'm too tired to look it up. It
does meet JASO DH-1 though, which is odd because ordinarily if it
meets this it should also meet the parallell standards of API CH-4 and
ACEA E3 but these are conspicuous by their abscence. In any case, this
oil is not available in the Northern Hemisphere AFAIK.

Huw


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Hirsty's

Guest

• Oct 14, 2004

• #12

Thanks Huw & everyone else here, makes more sense now.

John H

> > Tia John H
>
> I would not personally be happy with any of those specifications in a
> 200/300TDi.
> You should specifically seek out and use an oil that meets either
>
> ACEA E2 or better still E3 and E5. [E4 oil is better still but not
> warranted for this application]
>

 

E

EMB

Guest

• Oct 15, 2004

• #13

Huw wrote:

>
> Perhaps you mean Delo Gold formulated with something called ISOSYN
> technology but not specifically claiming to use synthetic base oil?

Ordinary Delo 400 is ISOSYN technology too!

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A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Oct 15, 2004

• #14

On or around Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:03:59 +1300, EMB <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>Hirsty's wrote:
>> Not really sure what the specs should be but having had a look at the can
>> the listing at the front is
>>
>> ACEA A1 B1
>>
>> API SL CF
>
>
>API CF is a 1994 diesel oil spec that has been surpassed 3 times since
>then - it's likely to be obsoleted in the near future. An contemporary
>oil meeting only this spec tends to be a sign of a lack of development
>on the part of the manufacturer, and I'd prefer to use an oil with some
>recent development.
>
>ACEA ratings areat the link below - I'd be looking for a B4 compliant oil.
>
>http://www.acea.be/ACEA/20020618PublicationsOilSequences.pdf
>
>
>The link below gives details of the API classifications.
>
>http://api-ep.api.org/filelibrary/Guidechart2002.pdf


having said all that...

LR's minimum oil spec for the TDi engines is ACEA B2:96 or API CE*. For V8s
they say ACEA A2:96 or API SH.

Nothing says you can't use a better oil, and no, I don't know if the
standards quoted are equivalent, just that's what the book says. Exceeding
the minimum standard can't be a bad thing, exceeding it by a long way may
well not be justified.

You can buy for example Castrol's racing synthetic stuff (the one that's
0W60 or somesuch grade) but it's bloody expensive, and probably only
justified if you do indeed go racing.

I'm not sure that an oil rated "only" CF is necessarily a sign of no
development, unless that's the manufacturer's premium brand. It might be
that they simply continue to make and sell the older spec as a cheap oil for
older engines that don't require the latest spec oil.

* so says HBoL. all the handbooks are outside in the rain. CE sounds a tad
low compared to ACEA B2, but it might be right, they're all different tests
and standards, after all.

 

H

Huw

Guest

• Oct 15, 2004

• #15

EMB wrote:
> Huw wrote:
>
>>
>> Perhaps you mean Delo Gold formulated with something called ISOSYN
>> technology but not specifically claiming to use synthetic base oil?
>
> Ordinary Delo 400 is ISOSYN technology too!

But, apart from marketing bull****, what does it mean? It only meets
the specifications it meets and is certainly not up to the next step
which is mb228.5/ACEA E4 or what is commonly known as '100,000 km+
oil'.

Huw


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H

Huw

Guest

• Oct 15, 2004

• #16

Austin Shackles wrote:
>
> having said all that...
>
> LR's minimum oil spec for the TDi engines is ACEA B2:96 or API CE*.
> For V8s they say ACEA A2:96 or API SH.

For the TDi you *can* use an oil that exceeds ACEA B2 but, at least my
book said to use a CCMC D5 oil for changes. D5 is long obsolete but
ACEA E2 is equivelent and should be the minimum used today. Since
superior E3 oils are commonly available and cost not much more, then
there is no possible reason not to use E3 oils. These will also likely
have an ACEA B4 rating in certain viscosities.

>
> Nothing says you can't use a better oil, and no, I don't know if the
> standards quoted are equivalent, just that's what the book says.
> Exceeding the minimum standard can't be a bad thing, exceeding it by
> a long way may well not be justified.
>

It will certainly not be justified to use an E4 or mb228.5 synthetic,
or in Morris's case a semi-synthetic, oil in this engine unless you
anticipate completely missing the occasional oil change by accident,
even then an E3 oil would likely be fine. These Ultra High Performance
Diesel [UHPD] oils are extremely expensive and are for specialist
applications. You may guess that I use them LOL
The ones I use are occasionally Morris Ring Free Ultra and as a rule
Fuchs Titan Cargo 1040, mainly for my Land Cruiser which I extend the
drain interval by over *2. If I was confident of the filtration I
would not hesitate extending by *4.
It is 3.5 times more expensive than ACEA E3, API CH-4 oil.

Huw



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