Off Road vehicle decisions, help!

Hello everyone,
This is my first post to this newsgroup.

Last week I had the fantastic opportunity to go offroading in a Land Rover
Discovery on the beaches of Padre Island...a 30 mile stretch of nothing but
sand dunes, mud, and tall grass. We packed 7 people (including the driver) into
the vehicle and went through all kinds of difficult terrain with no problems. I
was sold on the vehicle!

But, I've heard that Land Rovers are expensive vehicles to repair since it's a
foreign car and that one should NOT even consider buying a used Land Rover
since you don't know whether it leaks oil, etc.

What other 4x4 vehicles do you guys recommend for the CASUAL offroader? In
South Texas, where I live, the land is relatively flat. We have sand dunes on
the coastline, but the majority is brush land.

Give me a reason why not to go with the Land Rover (other than price). My main
priorities in an offroad vehicle is the following: 1.) 4x4 2.) cab space (4
doors, but 2 is fine) 3.) bed space

I am leaning towards a pickup. Toyota vs. Ford.

Also, the lighter the vehicle, the better offroader, right?

> What other 4x4 vehicles do you guys recommend for the CASUAL offroader?
> In South Texas, where I live, the land is relatively flat. We have sand
dunes on
> the coastline, but the majority is brush land.
>
> Give me a reason why not to go with the Land Rover (other than price). My
> main priorities in an offroad vehicle is the following: 1.) 4x4 2.) cab
space (4
> doors, but 2 is fine) 3.) bed space

For low cost, available parts and easy repair and buildups you can't
beat a Chevy pickup.

Mike

Roughly 12/19/03 08:01, TooPlaneCrazy7's monkeys randomly typed:

> Hello everyone,
> This is my first post to this newsgroup.
>
> Last week I had the fantastic opportunity to go offroading in a Land Rover
> Discovery on the beaches of Padre Island...a 30 mile stretch of nothing but
> sand dunes, mud, and tall grass. We packed 7 people (including the driver) into
> the vehicle and went through all kinds of difficult terrain with no problems. I
> was sold on the vehicle!
>
> But, I've heard that Land Rovers are expensive vehicles to repair since it's a
> foreign car and that one should NOT even consider buying a used Land Rover
> since you don't know whether it leaks oil, etc.
>
> What other 4x4 vehicles do you guys recommend for the CASUAL offroader? In
> South Texas, where I live, the land is relatively flat. We have sand dunes on
> the coastline, but the majority is brush land.
>
> Give me a reason why not to go with the Land Rover (other than price). My main
> priorities in an offroad vehicle is the following: 1.) 4x4 2.) cab space (4
> doors, but 2 is fine) 3.) bed space

The Land Rover is now a Ford, with some innards still from BMW such
as the engine. It is a very expensive luxo SUV. For a tad less
money with more luxury and far better on-road matters, look at the
VW Touareg. For a tad more money and the best on-road manners of
any SUV [say, you want to do 160 mph on the way to the beach] check
out the Porsche Cayenne Turbo. Both the VW and the Porsche are
available with full locking transfer case and differentials, plus
air control suspension that hunkers down on the highway so you
can't tip it over yet can be raised for off road clearance.
>
> I am leaning towards a pickup. Toyota vs. Ford.

Check out the Nissan Titan plus the Chevy and Dodge models as well.

>
> Also, the lighter the vehicle, the better offroader, right?

Not necessarily, but it helps keep it on *top* of the sand.

When you say bed space, do you want an uncovered bed, or is
the ability to drop the 2nd and 3rd row seats down good enough?

Or even the ability to normally run with the vehicle entirely
closed, but be able to open the rear hatch such that there is
a direct shot straight up?

A pickup with crew cab will be a bit more claustrophobic than
something like the Ford Explorer pickuplet.

Congratulations, you are now at the fun stages of 4x4'ing, the
horizons are wide open.



--
Fan of the dumbest team in America.

Jeep Grand Cherokee.. for larger than stock tires, there is a budget lift
kit available for maybe US$300 if required..

--
History is only the past if we choose to do nothing about it..

"TooPlaneCrazy7" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello everyone,
> This is my first post to this newsgroup.
>
> Last week I had the fantastic opportunity to go offroading in a Land Rover
> Discovery on the beaches of Padre Island...a 30 mile stretch of nothing
but
> sand dunes, mud, and tall grass. We packed 7 people (including the driver)
into
> the vehicle and went through all kinds of difficult terrain with no
problems. I
> was sold on the vehicle!
>
> But, I've heard that Land Rovers are expensive vehicles to repair since
it's a
> foreign car and that one should NOT even consider buying a used Land Rover
> since you don't know whether it leaks oil, etc.
>
> What other 4x4 vehicles do you guys recommend for the CASUAL offroader? In
> South Texas, where I live, the land is relatively flat. We have sand dunes
on
> the coastline, but the majority is brush land.
>
> Give me a reason why not to go with the Land Rover (other than price). My
main
> priorities in an offroad vehicle is the following: 1.) 4x4 2.) cab space
(4
> doors, but 2 is fine) 3.) bed space
>
> I am leaning towards a pickup. Toyota vs. Ford.
>
> Also, the lighter the vehicle, the better offroader, right?

TooPlaneCrazy7 wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> This is my first post to this newsgroup.
>
> Last week I had the fantastic opportunity to go offroading in a Land
> Rover Discovery on the beaches of Padre Island...a 30 mile stretch of
> nothing but sand dunes, mud, and tall grass. We packed 7 people
> (including the driver) into the vehicle and went through all kinds of
> difficult terrain with no problems. I was sold on the vehicle!
>
Sounds like fun - Discoverys are probably the most off-road capable 7 seat
SUV in unmodified form that are available relatively cheaply second hand.

> But, I've heard that Land Rovers are expensive vehicles to repair
> since it's a foreign car and that one should NOT even consider buying
> a used Land Rover since you don't know whether it leaks oil, etc.
>
Discoverys aren't foreign - they're English! They are very cheap to repair
here in England but I expect your local Chevy and Ford pickups are cheaper
over there. As for buying one secondhand - you *will* know whether it leaks
oil or not, just look underneath. My 1997 V8 has no leaks. Contrary to what
other people who don't know what they are talking about will tell you, there
are no BMW bits in Discoverys - the engine is a Rover V8 that was originally
a Buick unit and the autoboxes are ZF units.

> What other 4x4 vehicles do you guys recommend for the CASUAL
> offroader? In South Texas, where I live, the land is relatively flat.
> We have sand dunes on the coastline, but the majority is brush land.
>
Ask yourself the following question - what other vehicle can I get that has
solid axles front and rear (v. good off-road) coil springs and disc brakes
all round and permanent 4WD for a low budget? If any other vehicles appeal,
try them in the conditions the Discovery impressed you and see if they are
as good.

> Give me a reason why not to go with the Land Rover (other than
> price). My main priorities in an offroad vehicle is the following:
> 1.) 4x4 2.) cab space (4 doors, but 2 is fine) 3.) bed space
>
There are many reasons not to go with the LR - the only one that matters is
if you want one!

> I am leaning towards a pickup. Toyota vs. Ford.
>
Drive one off-road before you buy - they don't ride like a Discovery
off-road and tend to have rather, errrr, old fashioned underpinnings such as
cart springs.

> Also, the lighter the vehicle, the better offroader, right?

Generally you are right, but it depends on the conditions. In dry scrub and
sand as you describe, it doesn't have a big influence as long as you have
the right tyres.

If you need any further convincing have a look at:

http://www.discoweb.org/

And ask some questions on the bulletin board.

--
Julian
---------
= Pretentious Sig required =

Roughly 12/19/03 10:53, Exit's monkeys randomly typed:

>> But, I've heard that Land Rovers are expensive vehicles to repair
>> since it's a foreign car and that one should NOT even consider buying
>> a used Land Rover since you don't know whether it leaks oil, etc.
>>
> Discoverys aren't foreign - they're English! They are very cheap to repair
> here in England but I expect your local Chevy and Ford pickups are cheaper
> over there. As for buying one secondhand - you *will* know whether it leaks
> oil or not, just look underneath. My 1997 V8 has no leaks. Contrary to what
> other people who don't know what they are talking about will tell you, there
> are no BMW bits in Discoverys - the engine is a Rover V8 that was originally
> a Buick unit and the autoboxes are ZF units.

Discoverys are now Fords, but with their own engineering etc.

A similar vehicle is the Nissan Xterra, but I dunno if it still
has solid axles or not all around. Note that you really only need
solid axles if you plan on rock crawling.

The Toyota RAV4 is another vehicle in the class, but tends to
be rather pricey as a used vehicle. Also the Ford Escape and
the Jeep Liberty as new.
>
>> What other 4x4 vehicles do you guys recommend for the CASUAL
>> offroader? In South Texas, where I live, the land is relatively flat.
>> We have sand dunes on the coastline, but the majority is brush land.
>>
> Ask yourself the following question - what other vehicle can I get that has
> solid axles front and rear (v. good off-road) coil springs and disc brakes
> all round and permanent 4WD for a low budget? If any other vehicles appeal,
> try them in the conditions the Discovery impressed you and see if they are
> as good.

The Jeep Cherokee and Grand Cherokee both have the solid axles, the
Grand Cherokee has coil springs and disk brakes and permanent 4wd
all around.

Both fairly lightweight compared to other SUV's.


--
Fan of the dumbest team in America.

Lon Stowell wrote:
> Roughly 12/19/03 10:53, Exit's monkeys randomly typed:
>
>>> But, I've heard that Land Rovers are expensive vehicles to repair
>>> since it's a foreign car and that one should NOT even consider
>>> buying a used Land Rover since you don't know whether it leaks oil,
>>> etc.
>>>
>> Discoverys aren't foreign - they're English! They are very cheap to
>> repair here in England but I expect your local Chevy and Ford
>> pickups are cheaper over there. As for buying one secondhand - you
>> *will* know whether it leaks oil or not, just look underneath. My
>> 1997 V8 has no leaks. Contrary to what other people who don't know
>> what they are talking about will tell you, there are no BMW bits in
>> Discoverys - the engine is a Rover V8 that was originally a Buick
>> unit and the autoboxes are ZF units.
>
> Discoverys are now Fords, but with their own engineering etc.
>
No they are still Land Rovers, just like jeeps are still jeeps even though
they are Mercs. There are no Ford bits in them yet, but they are due to get
Jaguar V8's soon and a joint Ford-Peugeot V6 diesel of 2.7 litres and
200bhp.

> A similar vehicle is the Nissan Xterra, but I dunno if it still
> has solid axles or not all around. Note that you really only need
> solid axles if you plan on rock crawling.
>
Solid axles aren't only for rock-crawling, they do however give better axle
articulation than IFS which is important in any challenging off-roading
situation. If you don't need axle artic you can do it in a Subaru.

> The Toyota RAV4 is another vehicle in the class, but tends to
> be rather pricey as a used vehicle. Also the Ford Escape and
> the Jeep Liberty as new.
>>
>>> What other 4x4 vehicles do you guys recommend for the CASUAL
>>> offroader? In South Texas, where I live, the land is relatively
>>> flat. We have sand dunes on the coastline, but the majority is
>>> brush land.
>>>
>> Ask yourself the following question - what other vehicle can I get
>> that has solid axles front and rear (v. good off-road) coil springs
>> and disc brakes all round and permanent 4WD for a low budget? If any
>> other vehicles appeal, try them in the conditions the Discovery
>> impressed you and see if they are as good.
>
> The Jeep Cherokee and Grand Cherokee both have the solid axles, the
> Grand Cherokee has coil springs and disk brakes and permanent 4wd
> all around.
>
Quite, and if the OP wants it to perform comparably with the Discovery he
has experienced, that is the sort of vehicle he will need.

--
Julian
---------
= Pretentious Sig required =

Thanks all. I've been lurking in the JEEP newsgroup and see that the Jeep
Liberty is a heavily unfavored vehicle for off-roading.

I like the Grand Cherokee, but it just looks too big and too much like a
"family car".

Shall I look into an older Cherokee?

"TooPlaneCrazy7" <[email protected]> wrote

> What other 4x4 vehicles do you guys recommend for the CASUAL offroader? In
> South Texas, where I live, the land is relatively flat. We have sand dunes
on
> the coastline, but the majority is brush land.
>
> Give me a reason why not to go with the Land Rover (other than price). My
main
> priorities in an offroad vehicle is the following: 1.) 4x4 2.) cab space
(4
> doors, but 2 is fine) 3.) bed space
>
> I am leaning towards a pickup. Toyota vs. Ford.
>
> Also, the lighter the vehicle, the better offroader, right?

I'd go for an Isuzu Trooper. if you want one new, since they are
discontinuing the Japanese made version and replacing t with a newer style
USA made one there are great deals on the 2003s if you hang on to it and
don't intend to tradein in a few years..

It's great onroad, good power and manages highway speeds with no trouble.
and is good offroad as well, despite having IFS, 4X4 performace is good.

the trooper is a medium SUV class vehicle, but has plenty of cab space and
footroom. Bed space is generous for the class.

try asking about them in alt.autos.isuzu

rhys

Roughly 12/19/03 15:18, TooPlaneCrazy7's monkeys randomly typed:

> Thanks all. I've been lurking in the JEEP newsgroup and see that the Jeep
> Liberty is a heavily unfavored vehicle for off-roading.
>
> I like the Grand Cherokee, but it just looks too big and too much like a
> "family car".
>
> Shall I look into an older Cherokee?

If you park a Grand next to a typical midsize car, it is actually
shorter, much shorter than it appears to be. The Cherokee is bit
more hardcore in the interior, the downside is the aerodynamics
which make a brick look sleek. The ride in the Grand is much better,
with interiors on the Limited models that are in the semi luxo
range, those in the Laredo are a bit less so. The Grand will
get better gas mileage than the Cherokee on the open road
simply due to the slightly more aero body, ratios being equal.
With the tow package on the Grand you get 3.73 axles plus
transmission cooler which is nice. If it is a bit too jiggly
on the road, drop in inertia shocks [Edelbrock IAS] or driver
area adjustables [e.g. Rancho RS9000X] so you still get that
nice ride offroad that helps with kidney issues.

Both the Grand and the Cherokee can be made into hardcore trail
machines...not in the same class as the short wheel base jeeps
but definitely not poseur machines.

Probably the biggest advantage of the Cherokee series over the
Rover is the far larger availability of aftermarket parts in
the USofA compared to those for the LR.

--
Fan of the dumbest team in America.

Look at a new Mitsubishi Montero Limited. They have all of the comfort and
luxury of a Land Rover for 80% of the price and are as equally agile and
tough off road. Split fold up rear seats and removable third row seats give
lots of useable cargo room. The sun roof is huge and a person in the back
seat can stand up through it. I never understood the Discovery rear sun
roof. I use my rear roof for cargo and my roof rack ends where the sun roof
starts. The spare tire is mounted on the rear door and with the rocker
panels removed clearance is as much as I need. This is my second one and the
first new one. I've taken it over everything short of extreme rock crawling
in the southwest desert with nothing more than upgraded tires. It's traveled
well over 2,000 miles of desert off road and because of the unibody
construction there are absolutely no squeaks or rattles. Mine is a mountain
goat and gets me in and out of some tight places. It's small enough to get
into spaces where a Hummer or even a full size pick up would have trouble
and still large enough to hold a complete camp with supplies for a week. I
can mount an extra tire, gas cans and tools on the roof. Back in town and
cleaned up it's almost a luxury car.

My second choice would be a Chevy Tahoe Z71 5.3L

Bob Walker

"TooPlaneCrazy7" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello everyone,
> This is my first post to this newsgroup.
>
> Last week I had the fantastic opportunity to go offroading in a Land Rover
> Discovery on the beaches of Padre Island...a 30 mile stretch of nothing
but
> sand dunes, mud, and tall grass. We packed 7 people (including the driver)
into
> the vehicle and went through all kinds of difficult terrain with no
problems. I
> was sold on the vehicle!
>
> But, I've heard that Land Rovers are expensive vehicles to repair since
it's a
> foreign car and that one should NOT even consider buying a used Land Rover
> since you don't know whether it leaks oil, etc.
>
> What other 4x4 vehicles do you guys recommend for the CASUAL offroader? In
> South Texas, where I live, the land is relatively flat. We have sand dunes
on
> the coastline, but the majority is brush land.
>
> Give me a reason why not to go with the Land Rover (other than price). My
main
> priorities in an offroad vehicle is the following: 1.) 4x4 2.) cab space
(4
> doors, but 2 is fine) 3.) bed space
>
> I am leaning towards a pickup. Toyota vs. Ford.
>
> Also, the lighter the vehicle, the better offroader, right?

I think most of you guys who replied are getting way over the top for this
guy. Firstly, we need to know what TYPE of offroading you want to do. Do you
want it for fun (and not your daily driver?) or are you wanting this for
cruising the weekends only?
I would suggest something way cheaper, both to buy AND to fix, until you
decide exactly what you want. You are going to have to learn to drive all
over again to 4WD.
Good luck, make it cheap and fun....no worries about the dents and damage
then.
Cheers from a Kiwi living in the USA.
"TooPlaneCrazy7" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello everyone,
> This is my first post to this newsgroup.
>
> Last week I had the fantastic opportunity to go offroading in a Land Rover
> Discovery on the beaches of Padre Island...a 30 mile stretch of nothing
but
> sand dunes, mud, and tall grass. We packed 7 people (including the driver)
into
> the vehicle and went through all kinds of difficult terrain with no
problems. I
> was sold on the vehicle!
>
> But, I've heard that Land Rovers are expensive vehicles to repair since
it's a
> foreign car and that one should NOT even consider buying a used Land Rover
> since you don't know whether it leaks oil, etc.
>
> What other 4x4 vehicles do you guys recommend for the CASUAL offroader? In
> South Texas, where I live, the land is relatively flat. We have sand dunes
on
> the coastline, but the majority is brush land.
>
> Give me a reason why not to go with the Land Rover (other than price). My
main
> priorities in an offroad vehicle is the following: 1.) 4x4 2.) cab space
(4
> doors, but 2 is fine) 3.) bed space
>
> I am leaning towards a pickup. Toyota vs. Ford.
>
> Also, the lighter the vehicle, the better offroader, right?

>I have to agree, it's all about purpose....do you want somthing you
can go and get seriously muddy in at the weekend and do the school run
during the week, or is it going to be purely a fun-machine?
>personally I'd go for either a Unimog (why settle for less?) as you
can pick a 406 quite cheeply and it will get you through ANYTHING, or
at the other end of the scale a Suzuki Sahara (put some big shocks and
some monster tyres on and your away!)...but both of these are
obviously highly impractical for anything else!
>Of course there is a vehical that can perform both roles
happily...and than can only be a landrover either the 110 or the 90
depending on how much family you have!
>Anyway, I hope this helps?
"willie" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I think most of you guys who replied are getting way over the top for this
> guy. Firstly, we need to know what TYPE of offroading you want to do. Do you
> want it for fun (and not your daily driver?) or are you wanting this for
> cruising the weekends only?
> I would suggest something way cheaper, both to buy AND to fix, until you
> decide exactly what you want. You are going to have to learn to drive all
> over again to 4WD.
> Good luck, make it cheap and fun....no worries about the dents and damage
> then.
> Cheers from a Kiwi living in the USA.
> "TooPlaneCrazy7" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Hello everyone,
> > This is my first post to this newsgroup.
> >
> > Last week I had the fantastic opportunity to go offroading in a Land Rover
> > Discovery on the beaches of Padre Island...a 30 mile stretch of nothing
> but
> > sand dunes, mud, and tall grass. We packed 7 people (including the driver)
> into
> > the vehicle and went through all kinds of difficult terrain with no
> problems. I
> > was sold on the vehicle!
> >
> > But, I've heard that Land Rovers are expensive vehicles to repair since
> it's a
> > foreign car and that one should NOT even consider buying a used Land Rover
> > since you don't know whether it leaks oil, etc.
> >
> > What other 4x4 vehicles do you guys recommend for the CASUAL offroader? In
> > South Texas, where I live, the land is relatively flat. We have sand dunes
> on
> > the coastline, but the majority is brush land.
> >
> > Give me a reason why not to go with the Land Rover (other than price). My
> main
> > priorities in an offroad vehicle is the following: 1.) 4x4 2.) cab space
> (4
> > doors, but 2 is fine) 3.) bed space
> >
> > I am leaning towards a pickup. Toyota vs. Ford.
> >
> > Also, the lighter the vehicle, the better offroader, right?