Noisy 300TDi

So...the 110 passed its MOT...but the tappet noise turned out to be not a
tappet! So far I have:

- inspected cam shaft followers, replaced 1
- fixed a sticky inlet valve
- replaced a snapped rocker shaft
- replaced cam belt and reset cam timing

Still sounds like it's got a noisy tappet. No smoking or performance
problems. Spoken to a couple of 'experts' who can't offer any other ideas.

Have had a suggestion that head could have been over-skimmed causing valves
to hit pistons when running (there's nothing fowling when turning engine via
spanner on crankshaft). This sort of ties up with the fact that I can see
(inlet only) valve marks on the piston heads, which I had previously assumed
were from a snapped cambelt at some point in time. Also, badly warped head
can cause the rocker shaft to snap, apparently. But....if the cause of this
is down to the head being over-skimmed, why would the inlet valves be
hitting the pistons but not the exhaust valves?

Anybody got any ideas / comments etc.? I'd be grateful for any helpful
advice - it's starting to grind me down now.

Icky.

icky wrote:
> So...the 110 passed its MOT...but the tappet noise turned out to be
> not a tappet! So far I have:
>
> - inspected cam shaft followers, replaced 1
> - fixed a sticky inlet valve
> - replaced a snapped rocker shaft
> - replaced cam belt and reset cam timing
>
> Still sounds like it's got a noisy tappet. No smoking or performance
> problems. Spoken to a couple of 'experts' who can't offer any other
> ideas.
> Have had a suggestion that head could have been over-skimmed causing
> valves to hit pistons when running (there's nothing fowling when
> turning engine via spanner on crankshaft). This sort of ties up with
> the fact that I can see (inlet only) valve marks on the piston heads,
> which I had previously assumed were from a snapped cambelt at some
> point in time. Also, badly warped head can cause the rocker shaft to
> snap, apparently. But....if the cause of this is down to the head
> being over-skimmed, why would the inlet valves be hitting the pistons
> but not the exhaust valves?
> Anybody got any ideas / comments etc.? I'd be grateful for any
> helpful advice - it's starting to grind me down now.
>
> Icky.
A slightly leaking exhaust manifold can sound very much like a tappet!!

Nige


--
--
Subaru WRX
Range Rover LSE (Bob) FOR SALE!!!
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'"I don't remember asking you a goddam thing"

In message <[email protected]>, icky
<[email protected]> writes
>So...the 110 passed its MOT...but the tappet noise turned out to be not a
>tappet! So far I have:
>
> - inspected cam shaft followers, replaced 1
> - fixed a sticky inlet valve
> - replaced a snapped rocker shaft
> - replaced cam belt and reset cam timing
>
>Still sounds like it's got a noisy tappet. No smoking or performance
>problems. Spoken to a couple of 'experts' who can't offer any other ideas.
>
>Have had a suggestion that head could have been over-skimmed causing valves
>to hit pistons when running (there's nothing fowling when turning engine via
>spanner on crankshaft). This sort of ties up with the fact that I can see
>(inlet only) valve marks on the piston heads, which I had previously assumed
>were from a snapped cambelt at some point in time. Also, badly warped head
>can cause the rocker shaft to snap, apparently. But....if the cause of this
>is down to the head being over-skimmed, why would the inlet valves be
>hitting the pistons but not the exhaust valves?
>
>Anybody got any ideas / comments etc.? I'd be grateful for any helpful
>advice - it's starting to grind me down now.
>
>Icky.
>
>



There is a dowel in the end of the cam shaft that locates in the
camshaft pulley. Check that this has not broken.

I have only seen it once but it gave the effect of a tappet noise as
well as a popping noise that could be heard through the air intake vent
on the wing.

My customer was driving it for years before allowing me to investigate
the cause of the noise. It took some finding.
--
Marc Draper

Marc Draper <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> In message <[email protected]>, icky
> <[email protected]> writes
>>So...the 110 passed its MOT...but the tappet noise turned out to be
>>not a tappet! So far I have:
>>
>> - inspected cam shaft followers, replaced 1
>> - fixed a sticky inlet valve
>> - replaced a snapped rocker shaft
>> - replaced cam belt and reset cam timing
>>
>>Still sounds like it's got a noisy tappet. No smoking or performance
>>problems. Spoken to a couple of 'experts' who can't offer any other
>>ideas.
>>
>>Have had a suggestion that head could have been over-skimmed causing
>>valves to hit pistons when running (there's nothing fowling when
>>turning engine via spanner on crankshaft). This sort of ties up with
>>the fact that I can see (inlet only) valve marks on the piston heads,
>>which I had previously assumed were from a snapped cambelt at some
>>point in time. Also, badly warped head can cause the rocker shaft to
>>snap, apparently. But....if the cause of this is down to the head
>>being over-skimmed, why would the inlet valves be hitting the pistons
>>but not the exhaust valves?
>>
>>Anybody got any ideas / comments etc.? I'd be grateful for any
>>helpful advice - it's starting to grind me down now.
>>
>>Icky.
>>
>>
>
>
>
> There is a dowel in the end of the cam shaft that locates in the
> camshaft pulley. Check that this has not broken.
>
> I have only seen it once but it gave the effect of a tappet noise as
> well as a popping noise that could be heard through the air intake
> vent on the wing.
>
> My customer was driving it for years before allowing me to investigate
> the cause of the noise. It took some finding.

Just a wild card for you. I had a horrendous tapping sound from one of
my Pug 504's and suspected something really bad. A mechanic suggested it
was some foreign material attached to an injector, possibly carbon.
Anyway, it went away as mysteriously as it arrived...

Thought I would mention it. It's not the old fan belt noise, is it? That
has caught a lot!

Derry

"Marc Draper" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>, icky
> <[email protected]> writes
>>So...the 110 passed its MOT...but the tappet noise turned out to be not a
>>tappet! So far I have:
>>
>> - inspected cam shaft followers, replaced 1
>> - fixed a sticky inlet valve
>> - replaced a snapped rocker shaft
>> - replaced cam belt and reset cam timing
>>
>>Still sounds like it's got a noisy tappet. No smoking or performance
>>problems. Spoken to a couple of 'experts' who can't offer any other
>>ideas.
>>
>>Have had a suggestion that head could have been over-skimmed causing
>>valves
>>to hit pistons when running (there's nothing fowling when turning engine
>>via
>>spanner on crankshaft). This sort of ties up with the fact that I can see
>>(inlet only) valve marks on the piston heads, which I had previously
>>assumed
>>were from a snapped cambelt at some point in time. Also, badly warped
>>head
>>can cause the rocker shaft to snap, apparently. But....if the cause of
>>this
>>is down to the head being over-skimmed, why would the inlet valves be
>>hitting the pistons but not the exhaust valves?
>>
>>Anybody got any ideas / comments etc.? I'd be grateful for any helpful
>>advice - it's starting to grind me down now.
>>
>>Icky.
>>
>>
>
>
>
> There is a dowel in the end of the cam shaft that locates in the camshaft
> pulley. Check that this has not broken.
>
> I have only seen it once but it gave the effect of a tappet noise as well
> as a popping noise that could be heard through the air intake vent on the
> wing.
>
> My customer was driving it for years before allowing me to investigate the
> cause of the noise. It took some finding.
> --
> Marc Dra


Hi Mark I will check that this morning before i refit cam belt cover.

Cheers Icky

In message <[email protected]>
"icky" <[email protected]> wrote:

> So...the 110 passed its MOT...but the tappet noise turned out to be not a
> tappet! So far I have:
>
> - inspected cam shaft followers, replaced 1
> - fixed a sticky inlet valve
> - replaced a snapped rocker shaft
> - replaced cam belt and reset cam timing
>
> Still sounds like it's got a noisy tappet. No smoking or performance
> problems. Spoken to a couple of 'experts' who can't offer any other ideas.
>
> Have had a suggestion that head could have been over-skimmed causing valves
> to hit pistons when running (there's nothing fowling when turning engine via
> spanner on crankshaft). This sort of ties up with the fact that I can see
> (inlet only) valve marks on the piston heads, which I had previously assumed
> were from a snapped cambelt at some point in time. Also, badly warped head
> can cause the rocker shaft to snap, apparently. But....if the cause of this
> is down to the head being over-skimmed, why would the inlet valves be
> hitting the pistons but not the exhaust valves?
>
> Anybody got any ideas / comments etc.? I'd be grateful for any helpful
> advice - it's starting to grind me down now.
>
> Icky.
>
>

Your're not going to like this......... but 300Tdi's do a very good
impression of a noisy tappet when the head gasket is blowing a
tiny bit in the usual place (back left hand corner by No 4 Cylinder).

Sometimes you can see a tiny amount of carbon by a hole, and shining
a torch there after dark can show it up, or if it's internal (i.e. to
the push rod hole) you get a slight chuffing from the oil filler.

Worth a look, anyway.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
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"Derry Argue" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Marc Draper <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> In message <[email protected]>, icky
>> <[email protected]> writes
>>>So...the 110 passed its MOT...but the tappet noise turned out to be
>>>not a tappet! So far I have:
>>>
>>> - inspected cam shaft followers, replaced 1
>>> - fixed a sticky inlet valve
>>> - replaced a snapped rocker shaft
>>> - replaced cam belt and reset cam timing
>>>
>>>Still sounds like it's got a noisy tappet. No smoking or performance
>>>problems. Spoken to a couple of 'experts' who can't offer any other
>>>ideas.
>>>
>>>Have had a suggestion that head could have been over-skimmed causing
>>>valves to hit pistons when running (there's nothing fowling when
>>>turning engine via spanner on crankshaft). This sort of ties up with
>>>the fact that I can see (inlet only) valve marks on the piston heads,
>>>which I had previously assumed were from a snapped cambelt at some
>>>point in time. Also, badly warped head can cause the rocker shaft to
>>>snap, apparently. But....if the cause of this is down to the head
>>>being over-skimmed, why would the inlet valves be hitting the pistons
>>>but not the exhaust valves?
>>>
>>>Anybody got any ideas / comments etc.? I'd be grateful for any
>>>helpful advice - it's starting to grind me down now.
>>>
>>>Icky.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> There is a dowel in the end of the cam shaft that locates in the
>> camshaft pulley. Check that this has not broken.
>>
>> I have only seen it once but it gave the effect of a tappet noise as
>> well as a popping noise that could be heard through the air intake
>> vent on the wing.
>>
>> My customer was driving it for years before allowing me to investigate
>> the cause of the noise. It took some finding.
>
> Just a wild card for you. I had a horrendous tapping sound from one of
> my Pug 504's and suspected something really bad. A mechanic suggested it
> was some foreign material attached to an injector, possibly carbon.
> Anyway, it went away as mysteriously as it arrived...
>
> Thought I would mention it. It's not the old fan belt noise, is it? That
> has caught a lot!
>
> Derry

Hi Derry
I have been told by a 'diesel expert' that it is not a fueling noise all
though i may put the injectors from my disco in just to rule them out.
It have run engine without fan belt and this makes no differance

Cheers Icky

>Your're not going to like this......... but 300Tdi's do a very good
>impression of a noisy tappet when the head gasket is blowing a
>tiny bit in the usual place (back left hand corner by No 4 Cylinder).
>
>Sometimes you can see a tiny amount of carbon by a hole, and shining
>a torch there after dark can show it up, or if it's internal (i.e. to
>the push rod hole) you get a slight chuffing from the oil filler.
>
>Worth a look, anyway.


I think he has had the head off already Richard
--
Marc Draper

"Marc Draper" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >Your're not going to like this......... but 300Tdi's do a very good
>>impression of a noisy tappet when the head gasket is blowing a
>>tiny bit in the usual place (back left hand corner by No 4 Cylinder).
>>
>>Sometimes you can see a tiny amount of carbon by a hole, and shining
>>a torch there after dark can show it up, or if it's internal (i.e. to
>>the push rod hole) you get a slight chuffing from the oil filler.
>>
>>Worth a look, anyway.
>
>
> I think he has had the head off already Richard
> --
> Marc Draper

I the heads been off no obvious signs of gasket trouble.I think i am gonna
take it off again at the weekend and try putting 2 head gaskets on run
briefly to see if the noise has gone before I shell out on another head all
the people I have talked to seem to think the head is the most likely
culprit

Cheers
Icky

"icky" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> "Marc Draper" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> >Your're not going to like this......... but 300Tdi's do a very good
>>>impression of a noisy tappet when the head gasket is blowing a
>>>tiny bit in the usual place (back left hand corner by No 4 Cylinder).
>>>
>>>Sometimes you can see a tiny amount of carbon by a hole, and shining
>>>a torch there after dark can show it up, or if it's internal (i.e. to
>>>the push rod hole) you get a slight chuffing from the oil filler.
>>>
>>>Worth a look, anyway.
>>
>>
>> I think he has had the head off already Richard
>> --
>> Marc Draper
>
> I the heads been off no obvious signs of gasket trouble.I think i am
> gonna take it off again at the weekend and try putting 2 head gaskets
> on run briefly to see if the noise has gone before I shell out on
> another head all the people I have talked to seem to think the head is
> the most likely culprit
>
> Cheers
> Icky
>
>
>

When you changed the head, you did either replace the head bolts or
measure them to check they hadn't stretched, didn't you?

Had at least four new head gaskets put into a Peugeot 504 before the
local dealer had a shot and changed the head bolts -- and put on a new
head. That cured the problem.

The problem is that the head bolts can stretch so they won't take a
torque. If they are stretched, there is a good chance the head will warp
as well as the gasket blow sooner or later. You can check by measuring
them, but it is not too expensive to replace the head bolts as routine.

Another thing, get the head checked by some independent workshop -- not
one that will sell you a new head or skim it for you. I suspect I have
paid to have heads skimmed that were perfectly OK simply because that is
how the workshop make their money! No skim, no invoice. They like it
even better if they can sell you a new head!

Please excuse me if I am teaching you to suck eggs!

Derry