No Backlash......

benpalmer · Oct 9, 2018

Hi All,

I'm in the process of sticking in an ARB air locker to my Salisbury. I changed the pinion bearings at the same time as they were not feeling so good.

So far so good, followed the LR service book on pinion height, rotation torque for pinon, and ARB install book on the the spacers for the diff. All fits in nice.

But... I've got no backlash at all. Solid. The ARB book advised to take shims from one side of the diff and stick on the other side to move the diff away from the pinon, which I've done.

Still no backlash...

So my thinking is that I've incorrectly set the pinion height.

Any thoughts on it? Would be good to get some more opinions before I take out the pinion, and have to replace the consolable spacer.

Thanks!

Flossie · Oct 9, 2018

One for @jamesmartin I reckon.

jamesmartin · Oct 9, 2018

i thought youd checked pinion height, presumably you put the original shim back in and got the bearing race seated fully,a couple of thou wont matter,there should be 5 thou preload on diff carrier bearings once thats determined it is a matter of swapping shims side to side till required backlash is achieved,with no backlash you need to take from crown wheel side and fit to other, a non std carrier like an arb can be very different to the carrier removed, since that can take quite a few attempts, i use and the old carrier bearings with the inner diameter ground out so they just slide on to the carrier then fit the new bearings once shims are decided

benpalmer · Oct 9, 2018

Thanks James.
Yes I have checked the pinion height, but as I don't have the LR Special tool I made do with with the magnetic base of my DTI, which wasn't great to say the least. So my logic was an error occurred here, resulting in incorrect pinion height.
Bearing races were fully home and new shims used. I replaced like for like thickness as a starter, and after checking heights it seemed that was correct.

I've been swapped the shim, but at this point I've taken all the shims from the crown wheel side onto the other, and still no backlash. Hence why I'm now questioning pinion height. Is this likely / possible?

Fortunately the ARB carrier requires the shims outboard of the bearing so it's not such a pain to get in and out, but your tip above would be a great help if needed. Although my hands are getting a little sore lumping the diff in and out!

jamesmartin · Oct 9, 2018

benpalmer said:
Thanks James.
Yes I have checked the pinion height, but as I don't have the LR Special tool I made do with with the magnetic base of my DTI, which wasn't great to say the least. So my logic was an error occurred here, resulting in incorrect pinion height.
Bearing races were fully home and new shims used. I replaced like for like thickness as a starter, and after checking heights it seemed that was correct.

I've been swapped the shim, but at this point I've taken all the shims from the crown wheel side onto the other, and still no backlash. Hence why I'm now questioning pinion height. Is this likely / possible?

Fortunately the ARB carrier requires the shims outboard of the bearing so it's not such a pain to get in and out, but your tip above would be a great help if needed. Although my hands are getting a little sore lumping the diff in and out!

why fit new shims, i cant say ive fitted any locker that required shims on the out side of the bearing,they have to fit between brg and carrier, if shims were to be fitted on outside youd have to fit the shims to the opposite side of cw to get backlash, but then you wouldnt easily fit carrier and shims into the housing

benpalmer · Oct 9, 2018

jamesmartin said:
why fit new shims, i cant say ive fitted any locker that required shims on the out side of the bearing,they have to fit between brg and carrier, if shims were to be fitted on outside youd have to fit the shims to the opposite side of cw to get backlash, but then you wouldnt easily fit carrier and shims into the housing

I suspect I'm not explaining the set up correctly. I fitted new shims as a knackered the old when removing the bearing race.
I've attached a pdf of two parts of the ARB manual. They note where the "shim packs" are installed.
I've done as per these instructions, but I'm currently left with no shims left on the crown wheel side.

jamesmartin · Oct 9, 2018

benpalmer said:
I suspect I'm not explaining the set up correctly. I fitted new shims as a knackered the old when removing the bearing race.
I've attached a pdf of two parts of the ARB manual. They note where the "shim packs" are installed.
I've done as per these instructions, but I'm currently left with no shims left on the crown wheel side.

i cant see a pdf

benpalmer · Oct 9, 2018

jamesmartin said:
i cant see a pdf

Sorry, lack of IT skills.

jamesmartin · Oct 9, 2018

benpalmer said:
Sorry, lack of IT skills.

if pinion height is correct and youve no shims on cw side and no backlash have you got the right carrier for diff ratio

benpalmer · Oct 9, 2018

jamesmartin said:
if pinion height is correct and youve no shims on cw side and no backlash have you got the right carrier for diff ratio

I certainly hope so! I've got the ARB RD161, which is for the Defender Salisbury diff, but no mention of ratio's. Would the crown wheel fit if the carrier was incorrect?

I think it best I start from pinion set up and make sure on my measurements.

jamesmartin · Oct 9, 2018

benpalmer said:
I certainly hope so! I've got the ARB RD161, which is for the Defender Salisbury diff, but no mention of ratio's. Would the crown wheel fit if the carrier was incorrect?

I think it best I start from pinion set up and make sure on my measurements.

is it original cwp and what bearings were used timken?cw will fit wrong ratio carrier but the flange it seated to would be differently positioned ie a diff carrier for a 4.7 diff would sit nearer to the center of diff housing as pinion on a 4.7 is smaller

benpalmer · Oct 9, 2018

jamesmartin said:
is it original cwp and what bearings were used timken?cw will fit wrong ratio carrier but the flange it seated to would be differently positioned ie a diff carrier for a 4.7 diff would sit nearer to the center of diff housing as pinion on a 4.7 is smaller

Yes original cwp.
Britpart bearings.

Ah I see. I will do some checks against original carrier in that case.

jamesmartin · Oct 9, 2018

benpalmer said:
Yes original cwp.
Britpart bearings.

Ah I see. I will do some checks against original carrier in that case.

you should use only timken ,britpart timken or pattern apart from quality cheap bearings can create shimming issues

mick the builder · Oct 9, 2018

I've no idea what you two are talking about but I still read it all the way through and wait eagerly for the outcome .

benpalmer · Oct 9, 2018

jamesmartin said:
you should use only timken ,britpart timken or pattern apart from quality cheap bearings can create shimming issues

Ok, will bin the Britpart bearings and re start. Thanks James, your knowledge impressive and greatly received.

mick the builder said:
I've no idea what you two are talking about but I still read it all the way through and wait eagerly for the outcome .

A few months ago I had no idea too! And still very much learning!!!

bluedog333 · Oct 10, 2018

mick the builder said:
I've no idea what you two are talking about but I still read it all the way through and wait eagerly for the outcome .

Haha, same here!

benpalmer · Jul 24, 2019

Hi all, though I'd dig this one out as its now resolved. Having done so I'm amazed at how long this has dragged on for!
Any way, thanks to Jamesmartin for the top advice. New genuine bearings have sorted this problem out.

I managed to create some more problems for myself along the way, which I can partly attribute the almost 1 year of work on a single task!

No Backlash......

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