Nissan X-Trail etc.

Gents.

I'm considering upgrading at some point this year into something a bit
larger. The current car does struggle when I am carrying large items
(often) but I still need a family car. Build quality on Land Rovers has
somewhat put me off and I am currently considering the following shortlist
of vehicles.

Nissan X Trail
Honda CRV
Honda HRV

Has anybody in this newsgroup had experience of these vehicles and any
problems? What I'm interested in is niggling faults, garage problems,
anything that has caused discomfort for the owner.

Thanks, in advance.

PDH

Paul Hubbard posted ...

> Gents.
>
> I'm considering upgrading at some point this year into something a bit
> larger. The current car does struggle when I am carrying large items
> (often) but I still need a family car. Build quality on Land Rovers
> has somewhat put me off and I am currently considering the following
> shortlist of vehicles.
>
> Nissan X Trail
> Honda CRV
> Honda HRV
>
> Has anybody in this newsgroup had experience of these vehicles and any
> problems? What I'm interested in is niggling faults, garage problems,
> anything that has caused discomfort for the owner.
>
> Thanks, in advance.
>
> PDH

We looked at the CRV a while back, but had a problem with the load space.
The wheels/suspension mounts encroach on the boot space quite drastically
for the luggage/paraphenalia we need to move around with, to the extent that
even careful packing couldn't get into the boot what we used to get into a
Ford Escort .. It was a great drive though, just not practical enough. I'd
hazard a guess that this is much the same for the HRV. I have no personal
knowledge of the X-trail.

We now use a Discovery, and have no reliability or loadspace problems ..


--
Paul

"Paul Hubbard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Gents.
>
> I'm considering upgrading at some point this year into something a bit
> larger. The current car does struggle when I am carrying large items
> (often) but I still need a family car. Build quality on Land Rovers has
> somewhat put me off and I am currently considering the following shortlist
> of vehicles.
>
> Nissan X Trail
> Honda CRV
> Honda HRV
>
> Has anybody in this newsgroup had experience of these vehicles and any
> problems? What I'm interested in is niggling faults, garage problems,
> anything that has caused discomfort for the owner.
>
> Thanks, in advance.
>
> PDH
>
>

Take a look at the Kia Sorento, just bought one, fantastic value.

"roddytoo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Take a look at the Kia Sorento, just bought one, fantastic value.
>

The build quality of Kia's in general did not impress me at all. It looked
ok, but as they say, the devil is in the detail.

PDH

I have an X-Trail 2.2D Sport-X which I bought new last October.

Massive boot, but I had to buy a boot liner, everything I put in there was
sliding about the slick surface (not carpeted - part of the whole X-Trail
design thingie) and I could do with a cargo net for the same reason. As far
as I know, the latest model (Dec 03 - haven't seen any on the road yet but
they are in the showrooms) comes with these - I suppose Nissan realised by
the volume of accessory sales that this was an issue.

Loads of space inside too, and very highly spec'ed. I have had it back once
to the dealership with two distinct dash rattles - one he fixed, the other
he will have to have another go at.

Had a look at the new model when I was at the dealer - virtually identical
outside, inside they have redesigned the dash, and it looks the better for
it. I like the look of the new CRV, but it is only available in petrol (I
think - maybe there is a diesel due out?).

The HRV is not a family car. Only two in the rear (no middle seat belt).

Check out http://www.channel4.co.uk/4car/ for detailed reviews of these sort
of cars.


"Paul Hubbard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Gents.
>
> I'm considering upgrading at some point this year into something a bit
> larger. The current car does struggle when I am carrying large items
> (often) but I still need a family car. Build quality on Land Rovers has
> somewhat put me off and I am currently considering the following shortlist
> of vehicles.
>
> Nissan X Trail
> Honda CRV
> Honda HRV
>
> Has anybody in this newsgroup had experience of these vehicles and any
> problems? What I'm interested in is niggling faults, garage problems,
> anything that has caused discomfort for the owner.
>
> Thanks, in advance.
>
> PDH
>
>

"Paul Hubbard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Gents.
>
> I'm considering upgrading at some point this year into something a bit
> larger. The current car does struggle when I am carrying large items
> (often) but I still need a family car. Build quality on Land Rovers has
> somewhat put me off and I am currently considering the following shortlist
> of vehicles.
>
> Nissan X Trail
> Honda CRV
> Honda HRV
>
> Has anybody in this newsgroup had experience of these vehicles and any
> problems? What I'm interested in is niggling faults, garage problems,
> anything that has caused discomfort for the owner.
>
> Thanks, in advance.
>
> PDH
>

Kia Sorento - you would have to be a complete nutter to order any of the
others without at least taking a serious look at the Sorento

It is bigger and better equipped than the others at similar money (starts at
under 18k and the top of the range 3.5V6 auto with leather, etectric drivers
seat, full time 4wd, cruise and climate control on top of the self levelling
suspension, aircon, sunroof and god knows what else is just unde 22k) - not
only that but Autocar said it was better built than a Merc M class.

4x4 mag crowned it their over overall 4x4 of the year beating now models
from big names. They have also said that badge snobs have a choice - in
effect drive a "better badge" OR a better vehicle, but you cant do the two
at once.

Look at it. It is a "real" 4x4 that handles very well on road - the ride is
firmer than soft roaders that cant hack it in the rough stuff, and that
could put some off, but it is hardly a problem for most - give it a try.

The down side?? - you may still have to wait a bit for one, demand has
exceeded supply, but that may be settling down a bit now.

Take a look at it - you would be a fool not to, even if at the end of the
day you decide it is not the vehicle best suited to your needs and tastes.

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 12:42:27 -0000, "Paul Hubbard"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Nissan X Trail
>Honda CRV
>Honda HRV

I have looked at these with a view to upgrading my Freelander, which
is way too small for putting stuff in the back.

The Honda's aren't available with a diesel lump AFAIK (unless that has
changed recently), so it ruled them out for us.

The X-Trail looked very promising because the rear seats fold down
flat to give you decent loadspace (whereas in the Freelander they
simply fold leaving a goodly portion of the seat in the available
room.

Also, the X-Trail has had very positive reviews on the web if you
search. The reviewers all seemed to like them.

I'd be interested if you make a choice and then come back some time
later to report your thoughts!

PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.

"Paul Hubbard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "roddytoo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Take a look at the Kia Sorento, just bought one, fantastic value.
> >
>
> The build quality of Kia's in general did not impress me at all.

Past Kia's have not been brilliant - although reliability has been generally
very good. The Sorento is in a different league to all Kias before it, and
just about every reviewer who has written about it makes a point of telling
you so.

> It looked ok, but as they say, the devil is in the detail.

The attention to detail on the Sorento is generally exceptional at anything
like the prices they are asking.

You are right, the devil is in the detail, but precisely what detail is it
in the Sorento that puts you off?? - or is this just badge snobbery rearing
its head (at your expense)??

The Sorento is not for everyone, no car is, but any vehicle which receives
the kind of reviews the Sorento generally receives, prompts comments like
"Better built than a Merc" from the press and walks away with so many awards
cannot be ignored - make no mistake, this is not just another far eastern
offering at a good price, this car would in almost every respect have
received good reviews if a "more expensive" badge was stuck on it and 5 k or
more added to the proce.

Kia are the fastest growing manufacturer (in terms of sales % increases) in
many countries, including the UK - where I believe you are looking at a 72%
(approx) increase this year compared with last.

I have a Sorento 3.5V6 and a guy in our villiage was so impressed that he
swapped his Merc (40k new 3 years back) for one the same as mine. Could you
possibly imagine, in your wildest dreams him swapping it for an X-Trail
(unless his financial position or something else equally important changed
quite dramatically) - I dont think so.

> PDH
>
>

"PR" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> You are right, the devil is in the detail, but precisely what detail is it
> in the Sorento that puts you off?? - or is this just badge snobbery
rearing
> its head (at your expense)??

It's not a case of badge snobbery, if that was the case I would not drive
around at the moment in a Rover (!) which is just about the most out of
style car in the uk ar the moment.

Every year, during the summer months in Worthing, we have a weekend motor
show, held on the green. Its a chance to see and play with the latest
offerings from the car manufacturers, and with the exception of Land Rover,
who could not be bothered to turn up, was well patronised by various
dealers.

After having a chance to sit in a Kia Sorento, I walked away feeling that
the build quality was not up to the level of other 4x4 manufacturers. Looks
are everything, and if you sit in a car with poor quality trim and a drivers
seat that instantly gave me a bad back, you do start wondering just what the
rest of the car you cannot see is like. I was impressed with the Nissans,
the Honda's were wel build, but at the end of the day, other peoples
experience of a particular vehicle is what counts. The xtrail was nice,
well built, but then a thousand people could tell me it handles like ****e.
You can see why I'm asking others about their expriences.

PDH

Paul Hubbard <[email protected]> wrote:

> Nissan X Trail
> Honda CRV
> Honda HRV

None of these is particularly large, indeed I consider the Hondas to be
cramped and comparable to a Suzuki Vitara. One of the Hondas (HRV) IIRC
is 2x4 not 4x4 and also I think the HRV is no longer available (i.e. s/h
only). Of that particular bunch I'd have a look at the X-Trail.

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PR <[email protected]> wrote:

> Kia Sorento - you would have to be a complete nutter to order any of the
> others without at least taking a serious look at the Sorento

Do you own one?

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"Paul Hubbard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "PR" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > You are right, the devil is in the detail, but precisely what detail is
it
> > in the Sorento that puts you off?? - or is this just badge snobbery
> rearing
> > its head (at your expense)??
>
> It's not a case of badge snobbery, if that was the case I would not drive
> around at the moment in a Rover (!) which is just about the most out of
> style car in the uk ar the moment.
>
> Every year, during the summer months in Worthing, we have a weekend motor
> show, held on the green. Its a chance to see and play with the latest
> offerings from the car manufacturers, and with the exception of Land
Rover,
> who could not be bothered to turn up, was well patronised by various
> dealers.
>
> After having a chance to sit in a Kia Sorento, I walked away feeling that
> the build quality was not up to the level of other 4x4 manufacturers.
Looks
> are everything, and if you sit in a car with poor quality trim and a
drivers
> seat that instantly gave me a bad back, you do start wondering just what
the
> rest of the car you cannot see is like. I was impressed with the Nissans,
> the Honda's were wel build, but at the end of the day, other peoples
> experience of a particular vehicle is what counts. The xtrail was nice,
> well built, but then a thousand people could tell me it handles like
****e.
> You can see why I'm asking others about their expriences.

Paul, at the end of the day you are not going to buy a car that you dont
feel comfortable in, or that you dont feel is well put together.

All I can say is that poor build quality and uncomfortable seats are things
that not only have I not seen mentioned at all in dozens of tests I have
read on the Sorento from all over the world - but quite the opposite in
fact, both are frequently singled out for praise.

Some people dont like the "plastic wood" on the higher models, and there are
other bits that are down to personal taste, but having driven some very much
more expensive machinery I cant personally agree with your impressions - but
in this case its your money and you will buy something else!

Most people who have X-Trails seem to like them and have no real problems
with them - for me personally, the X-trail just isnt in the league I am
looking for - I had 2 choices, The Sorento or something 10 to 15k more
expensive like the new Volvo or VW offerings. I saved the money, bought a
Sorento 3.5v6 and dont feel that I am in a fundamentally inferior or
"cheaper" car. However good the X-Trail is it is hard to see it as a
genuine alternative to something at the 30k plus mark, The Sorento is far,
far, closer to it (as long as you dont need the Volvos 7 seats!).




> PDH
>
>

--
"PR" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Some people dont like the "plastic wood" on the higher models, and there
are
> other bits that are down to personal taste, but having driven some very
much
> more expensive machinery I cant personally agree with your impressions -
but
> in this case its your money and you will buy something else!
>
> Most people who have X-Trails seem to like them and have no real problems
> with them - for me personally, the X-trail just isnt in the league I am
> looking for - I had 2 choices, The Sorento or something 10 to 15k more
> expensive like the new Volvo or VW offerings. I saved the money, bought a
> Sorento 3.5v6 and dont feel that I am in a fundamentally inferior or
> "cheaper" car. However good the X-Trail is it is hard to see it as a
> genuine alternative to something at the 30k plus mark, The Sorento is far,
> far, closer to it (as long as you dont need the Volvos 7 seats!).

I have just been looking at both the Sorrento and the X-Trail this week at
the Display in the Shopping Centre at Milton Keynes. Within the next 3
months I want to purchase a replacement tow car and both cars mentioned
would fit the bill and are of a very similar price. I have to say that I
liked the Sorrento it seemed well designed and put together. My concern is
with the Kia, despite the avalanche of praise it has received is what
happens in the longer term with reliability and values. I suppose you could
say that buying anything with four wheels on new is a mugs game!!! Out of
the two I think my choice would be the X-Trail particularly as it now comes
with an uprated engine of 136hp. It is a smaller vehicle than the Sorrento
which would suit my wife. I now have to decide whether the X-Trail is going
to make a better towcar than a Ford Mondeo 130hp diesel as I can acquire a
new one of the latter at an advantageous price.


David - Milton Keynes
www.caravantravels.co.uk
Details of our Caravan Travels in the UK and Europe with help and advice and
site reports

Nissan build cars!
Honda make motorbikes!

I have a Nissan X-Trail and a Yamaha 900 motorbike. I would not touch
the Hondas.

I traded a Discovery for the X-Tail and in preference to a Freelander.

GO for it you will not be disappointed on price, economy or
performance and fun.

slightly behind the times ?

Do BMW only build bubble cars still?

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Nissan build cars!
> Honda make motorbikes!
>
> I have a Nissan X-Trail and a Yamaha 900 motorbike. I would not touch
> the Hondas.
>
> I traded a Discovery for the X-Tail and in preference to a Freelander.
>
> GO for it you will not be disappointed on price, economy or
> performance and fun.
>
>
>
>
>

> I have just been looking at both the Sorrento and the X-Trail this week at
> the Display in the Shopping Centre at Milton Keynes. Within the next 3
> months I want to purchase a replacement tow car and both cars mentioned
> would fit the bill and are of a very similar price. I have to say that I
> liked the Sorrento it seemed well designed and put together. My concern
is
> with the Kia, despite the avalanche of praise it has received is what
> happens in the longer term with reliability and values. I suppose you
could
> say that buying anything with four wheels on new is a mugs game!!! Out of
> the two I think my choice would be the X-Trail particularly as it now
comes
> with an uprated engine of 136hp. It is a smaller vehicle than the Sorrento
> which would suit my wife. I now have to decide whether the X-Trail is
going
> to make a better towcar than a Ford Mondeo 130hp diesel as I can acquire a
> new one of the latter at an advantageous price.
>
>
> David - Milton Keynes
> www.caravantravels.co.uk
> Details of our Caravan Travels in the UK and Europe with help and advice
and
> site reports
>
>

Do a comparison of the 2 cars on the What Car website and much of the data
shows in some ways a strange similarity: e.g. Power (138 and 134 bhp) and
torque (232 and 232 lb/ft) are virtually identical - so both cars will tow
well. Surprisingly the X-Trail is only 57 mm shorter than the Sorento,
though lower. Then look at the top speed, mpg and acceleration figures and
the X-Trail wins hands down.

I too sold a Discovery to buy an X-Trail and I am exceptionally pleased with
it. If you like driving (with and without the caravan) then the X-Trail is
much more car-like, is nippy and handles really well. If you want a higher
driving position, cumbersome handling and performance which is more
agricultural, then the Kia or Discovery fits the bill.

Bob


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> Has anybody in this newsgroup had experience of these vehicles and any
> problems? What I'm interested in is niggling faults, garage problems,
> anything that has caused discomfort for the owner.

Certainly Paul, I've owned an X-Trail 2.0 Sport since September and
I'm still ecstatically happy with it. I've had no problems with it at all
(although
I guess there's still time
Handles like a dream, well equipped, comfortable and roomy. If I had
any quibbles, I would probably say that the gearbox needs to be worked
a bit and the interior looks like it could scuff up easily. Also, one of my
taller mates finds the headroom not quite good enough! But, I've no regrets
and would definitely buy another.

Depends what your budget is really; I'd say it's good value.

I'd be very interested in hearing what you end up buying!

Cheers, Chris

"Bob Edwards" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > I have just been looking at both the Sorrento and the X-Trail this week
at
> > the Display in the Shopping Centre at Milton Keynes. Within the next 3
> > months I want to purchase a replacement tow car and both cars mentioned
> > would fit the bill and are of a very similar price. I have to say that I
> > liked the Sorrento it seemed well designed and put together. My concern
> is
> > with the Kia, despite the avalanche of praise it has received is what
> > happens in the longer term with reliability and values. I suppose you
> could
> > say that buying anything with four wheels on new is a mugs game!!! Out
of
> > the two I think my choice would be the X-Trail particularly as it now
> comes
> > with an uprated engine of 136hp. It is a smaller vehicle than the
Sorrento
> > which would suit my wife. I now have to decide whether the X-Trail is
> going
> > to make a better towcar than a Ford Mondeo 130hp diesel as I can acquire
a
> > new one of the latter at an advantageous price.
> >
> >
> > David - Milton Keynes
> > www.caravantravels.co.uk
> > Details of our Caravan Travels in the UK and Europe with help and advice
> and
> > site reports
> >
> >
>
> Do a comparison of the 2 cars on the What Car website and much of the data
> shows in some ways a strange similarity: e.g. Power (138 and 134 bhp) and
> torque (232 and 232 lb/ft) are virtually identical - so both cars will tow
> well.


True, although the Sorento achieves both max bhp and max torque at lower
revs.

The Sorento is rated to tow 2800kg against the Nissans 2000kg and its
separate chassis, self levelling suspension and low range will all help

>Surprisingly the X-Trail is only 57 mm shorter than the Sorento,
> though lower.

True it is only 57mm longer, but the 119mm extra width and 149mm extra
height make a real difference, more passenger space and boot space massively
up based on the figures on What Car (several times the volume).

>Then look at the top speed, mpg and acceleration figures and
> the X-Trail wins hands down.

Thats pushing it a bit - the Sorento is approx 33% heavier than the Nissan
and you would expect something that much bigger and heavier to use a but
more fuel and be a bit slower (if similar engine). The Xtrail returns about
10% or so to the gallon and achieves 112 against the Sorentos 106 - neither
of which can really be described as "winning hands down" in fact given the
Sorentos 33% extra size and weight I would consider that advantage pretty
poor.
Acceleration 0-60 is a bit more of an issue with a 3 second difference, but
"real world" performance is not an issue.


> I too sold a Discovery to buy an X-Trail and I am exceptionally pleased
with
> it. If you like driving (with and without the caravan) then the X-Trail
is
> much more car-like, is nippy and handles really well. If you want a
higher
> driving position, cumbersome handling and performance which is more
> agricultural, then the Kia or Discovery fits the bill.

Higher driving position, yes - to call the Kia "agricultural" in any sence
is plain stupid (and, yes, I know What Car used that word). The discovery is
agricultural, the kia is nothing like it at all.

Handling is far from the likes of older "agricultural" 4x4's and it was
tuned by Porche, yes - on bad roads the ride is a little harsh but it is
very well controlled. The ride is not the Sorentos best point but on most
roads it is just fine. Handling is well up to the near 200bhp of my 3.5,
and it needs to be vivet the 0-60 of just under 10secs on a vehicle weighing
2 tonnes - I can throw it around with confidence no problems.




> Bob
>
>
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>
>

"PR" <[email protected]> wrote >
> Higher driving position, yes - to call the Kia "agricultural" in any
sence
> is plain stupid (and, yes, I know What Car used that word). The
discovery is
> agricultural, the kia is nothing like it at all.
>
> Handling is far from the likes of older "agricultural" 4x4's and it
was
> tuned by Porche, yes -

Unfortunately neither are anywhere near 'agricultural'

They do not have over 700Nm torque, 200g/kW/h fuel consumption, air
suspended cab, air suspended seat with fore/aft and lateral
suspension, hydraulic/electronic self levelling axle suspension,
radar, CVT with multiple modes, electronic engine management which
interacts with transmission so that at a set engine speed the
accelerator pedal can be converted to a forward speed control; 70dbA
noise level, 500 hour [approximately 20,000 mile] service intervals,
600/65R42 tyres and a big amber beacon.
Wouldn't you prefer one of these to a 'not agricultural' heap? LOL.

Huw


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> > Do a comparison of the 2 cars on the What Car website and much of the
data
> > shows in some ways a strange similarity: e.g. Power (138 and 134 bhp)
and
> > torque (232 and 232 lb/ft) are virtually identical - so both cars will
tow
> > well.
>
>
> True, although the Sorento achieves both max bhp and max torque at lower
> revs.

Minor difference.

> The Sorento is rated to tow 2800kg against the Nissans 2000kg and its
> separate chassis, self levelling suspension and low range will all help

Help what - increase the weight?

> >Surprisingly the X-Trail is only 57 mm shorter than the Sorento,
> > though lower.
>
> True it is only 57mm longer, but the 119mm extra width and 149mm extra
> height make a real difference, more passenger space and boot space
massively
> up based on the figures on What Car (several times the volume).

Agree

> >Then look at the top speed, mpg and acceleration figures and
> > the X-Trail wins hands down.
>
> Thats pushing it a bit - the Sorento is approx 33% heavier than the Nissan
> and you would expect something that much bigger and heavier to use a but
> more fuel and be a bit slower (if similar engine). The Xtrail returns
about
> 10% or so to the gallon and achieves 112 against the Sorentos 106 -
neither
> of which can really be described as "winning hands down" in fact given the
> Sorentos 33% extra size and weight I would consider that advantage pretty
> poor.
> Acceleration 0-60 is a bit more of an issue with a 3 second difference,
but
> "real world" performance is not an issue.


Now you are trying to twist the arguement to suit yourself. I'm not talking
about efficiency - just look at the FACTS. Fuel consumption, service
intervals, service costs, pence per mile etc etc - the X-Trail is better.


> > I too sold a Discovery to buy an X-Trail and I am exceptionally pleased
> with
> > it. If you like driving (with and without the caravan) then the X-Trail
> is
> > much more car-like, is nippy and handles really well. If you want a
> higher
> > driving position, cumbersome handling and performance which is more
> > agricultural, then the Kia or Discovery fits the bill.
>
> Higher driving position, yes - to call the Kia "agricultural" in any sence
> is plain stupid (and, yes, I know What Car used that word). The discovery
is
> agricultural, the kia is nothing like it at all.



So all the professionals at What Car are wrong and you are right?


> Handling is far from the likes of older "agricultural" 4x4's and it was
> tuned by Porche, yes - on bad roads the ride is a little harsh but it is
> very well controlled. The ride is not the Sorentos best point


Just shot yourself in the foot.
Bob


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