Newby Discovery 5 Owner

Hi Fellow Discovery 5 owners,

I wish I could start with a positive note, unfortunately not, 31 Oct I picked up my Discovery 2018 HSE Lux from Birmingham North Jardine Landrover, after reading the forums I decided on a 2.0 diesel, as there were lots of issues with oil dilution.

My previous car was a 3.0 V6 Diesel Macan, which I loved, unfortunately, buy in haste repent at leisure, I have two ESS and regularly travel to France with them, unfortunately the Boot was a little small, so I opted for a Discovery, I am not unfamiliar with Landrover Products as I have owned LR s since 1994.
As most loyal Landrover Owners you have to expect issues Lol.

Arrived at the Dealers

Inspected the car it was clean and as described, unfortunately I did not look under the Bonnet, more about that later, I then sat down with their Brand Ambassador, I said to him you need to put my private plate on retention before taking me off the V5, I sat there thinking he was doing this, he said I had to take the plate off, I said fine can I have access to a laptop, he said no because the network was not allowed to be used, use your i phone, I logged on and tried to put my plate on retention, the stupid boy had taken me off the V5 despite me saying that this has to be completed before, I have had this plate since 1995 it was put on yhe first new Discovery I bought, he then went to see the sales manager who came out and apologised, I was not in a good mood by now and told him to get my plate on retention, he disappeared and the Brand Ambassador reappeared apologising profusly and taking responsibility, to allow me to keep my plate they had to transfer ownership back to myself, they were complaining that they were going to lose money as ny Macan had a further owner, I had to pick the car up before month end, so much to my displeasure I was forced to Tax it for a month for 1/2 a day, anyway, after being at the dealership for some 5 hours I just wanted to get home, I drove the car back to Brecon and it seemed OK.

The next morning I made the mistake of lifting the bonnet, there was a substantial oil leak that had sprayed over the engine bay, the plastic covers were loose and missing the fixing bolts, coolant level low, this vehicle was supposed to have been serviced at Landrover as it was a management vehicle, I dipped the oil none on the dipstick, the oil leak was not substantial enough to have lowered the oil level, spoke to the dealer and emailed him pics of the issues, next morning I went to a work meeting got in the car Flat Battery, called LR assist they sent a guy out he managed to start the car, unfortunately it had a red warning vehicle charge fault, he commented that the oil had possibly caused issues with the alternator.
I then E Mailed the dealer and rejected the Vehicle.

If you are interested in the next instalment please ask

Welcome to LandyZone

Hello and welcome

Welcome to the forum

I would like to read the next installment.

If yer motor was a MCP car, it will say so on the log book where the first owner is listed. Will say something like "Jaguar land rover limited, land rover company vehicle mcp, 125 heyford park, camp road, upper heyford, bicester, ox25 5ha."

Hi Lord Hippo

Thank you for the interest, I do not think with the new V5 lists the previous owner any more, maybe data protection ?? It was a JLR car as the PDI and first service was supposedly completed by Paragon Fleet Solutions, they also carried out the servicing on the rejected discovery, so I have little faith in their ability, back to the saga.

I had already sent the pics to the dealer, their Sales Manager apologised profusely and offered to rectify the issues, I rejected that because I was unsure of the possible engine issues that may have been caused by driving it low on oil, e mails went back and forth, them trying to let them rectify the issues, bearing in mind that the dealership was supposed to have carried out an approved used inspection, as the pics prove I do not think it ever saw the inside of the dealers workshop.

Jardine Motors are a large group with multiple dealerships inc Ferrari and Porsche, I then received a phone call from the group director of customer care, it was the same seal as from JLR Birmingham, he kept quoting consumer rights I said I am aware of my rights that is why I have rejected the vehicle, he then said that was OK and to return the Disco back to the dealership, he then said you can find your own way back, we will take you to the station, I said I live near Brecon and we haven't had a train here since Mr Beeching ?
I was a little annoyed by now so I told him that this was not acceptable, he put the phone down, I emailed the sales manager and told him what I thought of his attitude, a few minutes later the dir of customer care called me back, he said I have been considering your point and we will get you home, his attitude had totally changed, I emailed the sales manager and said I still want a Discovery, he replied saying have a look on our group website and if there is a comparable vehicle we can discuss an exchange, in the mean time we will collect your Discovery and leave you with our Demo.

So I am now the owner of a Byron Blue Discovery HSE Lux with 11000 miles on the clock, as it is a JLR car it is loaded with options, Roof Bars, Fridge in console, 22 inch Alloys, Elec Deployable Towbar, the discovery had been serviced by Paragon again, so I insisted that the workshop check it out, also I discovered that on the first service which in time is due in 2 years, the brake fluid is on the service schedule to be changed, so I went up to collect the car, when I arrived it was in the workshop having the brake fluid changed, they put it outside for me to inspect, I lifted the bonnet dipped the oil it was below the min and black, they sent their Senior Tech to explain that oil in a diesel goes black as soon as it is started, I accept that it discolours but not jet black, I said if this had been a 300TDI back in the days of mineral oils I would agree, but as it is a modern clean engine running on synthetic oil the change in colour is not so prevalent, he just repeated in his experience of 22 years in JLR workshops I have experience, I just said how have you let two discos go out with oil level issues ??
He then asked was I in the trade, I replied yes since the age of 16, completed my apprenticeship with a Ford Main Dealer, then returned to education and acquired a HND in automotive engineering, he then said where are you working now, I replied after education I worked in a Land Rover Dealership..
He said I will go and talk to sales, after 10 mins he came back and agreed to change the oil and filter.

So we are where we are Lol.......
I also managed to get a LR half dog guard a full set of rubber mats inc boot mat, also a quilted boot liner, also they applied a paint and Interior protector and filled the tank.

Completely a fan of the brand over the years since my old man's series when I was a boy, and having owned almost every single model myself with the exception of the freelander, and just about had the full experience with regards to their very best and worst.
However in this case I would have taken my hard earned money elsewhere after that debacle with the first one you were sent home with the oil leakage.

After said full ownership experience, I haven't upgraded to any other land rover product since 2012, rather opting for a pajero/shogun and then land cruiser prado.
Having grown with the brand and watch it evolve, you would think things would get better with them in terms of quality, reliability and generally better ownership experience over the lifetime of the vehicle.
Sadly it hasn't, and true as it may be that every manufacturer does have their own issues, it seems in my opinion that the Japanese have figured out how to at least try to build better vehicles that don't become an occupation on their own in an attempt to keep them on the road.

Paragon fleet services/solutions in bicester organise the buy back mechanism for ex lease and mcp cars to go back to lr, into their private main dealer auction, to be sold to dealers as nearly new stock. They're approved for servicing but often its only basic servicing they do as mileage is low. They also do pdi inspections. I think they help transport the vehicle out anorl.

When changing the oil on my diesel FL2 I was shocked at how quick the oil turned black. It was within 5 miles. It doesn't feel dirty or gritty. Its mixed with the bit of oil yer can't get out. This is after a drain and new filter. I think they will have discussed it and changed it for owners peace of mind. Its cheap and quick for garages to do. As yer know yerself, an oil change is one of the kindest things you can do to an engine.

The oil over the engine bay... I don't think any main dealer would give out a vehicle having seen that, as it would enevitably come back with a complaint. Its not something garage staff would ignore. I wonder if it happened on the test drive after the service. I would hope this is the case as opposed to the other options of being ignore. It could have just been a mistake. Forgot to report it etc when valeted. We'll never know.

You have certainly had yer fair share of problems. Its not easy standing up to main dealers but when you have a solid problem, it gives yer betterer leverage to put things right. Theres always a chance of getting a bad one. But on this occasion theres a genuine concern of too many things not right, in a row. I think part of the resolution included the dealer knowing lr will force them to take back a used vehicle where theres been underhand things going on. Or too many problems if they're a legit concern.

You can get access to topix to see the vehicles service and pdi history online. Also make sure the main dealer puts you down for the lr oft road eggsperiance day. If not then ring lr customer services and have yer log book, car purchase invoices etc with yer to answer questions. They will book it if the dealer doesn't get yer a voucher. Its part of the nearly new sale spec list.

Best of luck with it.

I think you will find lots of disco owners left the lr brand when the D5 came out, quite a few who stayed and bought the D5 also walked away from the brand, some swear by the D5, but they are certainly in a minority.
There were a few who after trying out the D5 then bought the latest D4 they could fine to keep them going for the time being.

Theres always a lot of criticism of the newer lr's. Difficult to compare numbers of thems that swear by them and thems that swear at them. You see a lot on the road so they must be selling. Transporters full of them delivered new. I remember the peep that came on ere a while ago moaning the move from D4 to D5 was a disaster because of the shape. Didn't like the rear door etc. I would have thought the driving eggsperiance and comfort would be more important.

DRW555 said:

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Hi Lord Hippo

Thank you for the interest, I do not think with the new V5 lists the previous owner any more, maybe data protection ?? It was a JLR car as the PDI and first service was supposedly completed by Paragon Fleet Solutions, they also carried out the servicing on the rejected discovery, so I have little faith in their ability, back to the saga.

I had already sent the pics to the dealer, their Sales Manager apologised profusely and offered to rectify the issues, I rejected that because I was unsure of the possible engine issues that may have been caused by driving it low on oil, e mails went back and forth, them trying to let them rectify the issues, bearing in mind that the dealership was supposed to have carried out an approved used inspection, as the pics prove I do not think it ever saw the inside of the dealers workshop.

Jardine Motors are a large group with multiple dealerships inc Ferrari and Porsche, I then received a phone call from the group director of customer care, it was the same seal as from JLR Birmingham, he kept quoting consumer rights I said I am aware of my rights that is why I have rejected the vehicle, he then said that was OK and to return the Disco back to the dealership, he then said you can find your own way back, we will take you to the station, I said I live near Brecon and we haven't had a train here since Mr Beeching ?
I was a little annoyed by now so I told him that this was not acceptable, he put the phone down, I emailed the sales manager and told him what I thought of his attitude, a few minutes later the dir of customer care called me back, he said I have been considering your point and we will get you home, his attitude had totally changed, I emailed the sales manager and said I still want a Discovery, he replied saying have a look on our group website and if there is a comparable vehicle we can discuss an exchange, in the mean time we will collect your Discovery and leave you with our Demo.

So I am now the owner of a Byron Blue Discovery HSE Lux with 11000 miles on the clock, as it is a JLR car it is loaded with options, Roof Bars, Fridge in console, 22 inch Alloys, Elec Deployable Towbar, the discovery had been serviced by Paragon again, so I insisted that the workshop check it out, also I discovered that on the first service which in time is due in 2 years, the brake fluid is on the service schedule to be changed, so I went up to collect the car, when I arrived it was in the workshop having the brake fluid changed, they put it outside for me to inspect, I lifted the bonnet dipped the oil it was below the min and black, they sent their Senior Tech to explain that oil in a diesel goes black as soon as it is started, I accept that it discolours but not jet black, I said if this had been a 300TDI back in the days of mineral oils I would agree, but as it is a modern clean engine running on synthetic oil the change in colour is not so prevalent, he just repeated in his experience of 22 years in JLR workshops I have experience, I just said how have you let two discos go out with oil level issues ??
He then asked was I in the trade, I replied yes since the age of 16, completed my apprenticeship with a Ford Main Dealer, then returned to education and acquired a HND in automotive engineering, he then said where are you working now, I replied after education I worked in a Land Rover Dealership..
He said I will go and talk to sales, after 10 mins he came back and agreed to change the oil and filter.

So we are where we are Lol.......
I also managed to get a LR half dog guard a full set of rubber mats inc boot mat, also a quilted boot liner, also they applied a paint and Interior protector and filled the tank.

Click to expand...

Hi there and welcome, I'm sorry but I'd go somewhere else for my next car. That's two cars in a row you've found problems with. I've no idea who you could complain too but I'd tell them your not Interested. I hope your next venture with the landrover brand is a more happier one

Hi Guys

Thank you for the support, Lord Hippo, you seem to be on the inside of Paragon or JLR, Paragon have opened a new JLR staff handover site near Gaydon, in my present Job JLR are one of our clients, so go to Gaydon for meetings, I take on board your comments on the oil state, it seems too much of a coincidence that Two Discoverys supposedly serviced by Paragon both had an oil level, oil condition issue ?
As you can see from the pics the oil on the engine, air filter housing and Alternator is not a recent occurrence, also I removed the top cover to identify where the oil was coming from, there is oil present on the coupling as in pic, I could not find any evidence of where it was coming from, it could not be a large leak as you know little oil big oil spread, I also agree that no Technician even a week old Apprentice would fail to notice the items in pics, that is why I said the first Discovery had never seen the inside of Paragon or Jardines workshops ??

I opted for an exchange vehicle from Jardines because I stupidly thought this time they would pull out all the stops, as the replacement was dearer as it is a year younger , they put in £1000 to compensate me for the mess they made supplying the first Disco, also agreed to put paint and interior protection on, normally when sales throw in a treatment it is rarely applied it is always helpful to have some insight into dealers tricks, so a little tip, if you are offered paint or interior treatment always insist on the treatment certificate ,
as normally the dealer will say they will apply but will not provide the documentation, also the treatment aftercare bag full of goodies.

I have access to Topix and Online service history so it was simple to check who did not service my car Lol

As for the experience voucher, I must admit out of the 165 approved used checklist it is the only one they could tick, I have been to Eastnor many times and progressed up to LR advanced off road training, also I have instructed 4x4 and examined candidates as an NPTC assessor, I will go down and select a new defender to drive, to satisfy my curiosity.

When I was working in a LR dealership, this would have been 1984, our workshop forman was a gruff firm but fair guy, a customer came in and complained that there was a problem on his brand new Range Rover, so we both went out to identify this major problem, the owner said the door trim was falling off, it should have been picked up on PDI, the foreman agreed and apologised, thank god I had not carried out the PDI, basically there was a gap between the door card and frame, I unclipped the card and the problem was when British Leyland had built it one of the plastic clips had not been fitted so there was a small imperfection, two minutes a replacment clip sorted, happy customer, now the reason for this rather long story is that when the customer had left, my Gruff foreman looked at me shook his head and said The Wrong People Are Buying Landrover ???
It has always stuck in my mind, 1984 Land Rovers were still primitive compared to now, but simple is efficient, my opinion is that as Land Rovers have progressed their go anywhere ability has improved but other flaws have become apparent, mainly due to the complicated systems that drive the vehicle.

I too did not initially like Discovery 5, as probably many of you have had or still own a Disco 1,2,3,4,5 the only Discovery I have not owned is Disco 4, all my Land Rovers over the years have been used for what they Love 4X4 I have yet to get my disco 5 dirty but have driven 5s off road and was impressed.

As for Land Rover plans for the future, I agree with comments that all Land Rovers look the same but that is down to The Armani suited Gerry Mcgovern, he has pandered to the chelsea set and produced vehicles that as we are aware never go off road, I thing the guy looks like he has never got dirty so my suggestion would be forget your friends in the cocktail bars and spend a week at Eastnor driving a Series Three, with no aids whatsoever, he will probably be a little confused as there are no buttons for Heated Seats etc Lol, hopefully he will gain a valuable insight into what made Land Rover a great British brand.

My foreman was correct Land Rovers are being designed and Purchased for the wrong sort of vehicle, trying to hang on to the brand history, who in gods earth would buy a 2wd Landrover or an Evoque convertible ??

You are correct Mark I will not buy off Jardine Group again ? Although over the years I have had experience of dealers and they all seem to be the same, the dealership that I worked for is still going although it is now owned by a Group, I purchased a few cars from them but being independent they could not match the big boys deals, I always used to take the best deal I had found and asked them if they could match it, if they were a few hundred pounds out that would be OK but the big boys were knocking thousands off to move metal, no one has ever worked on my Land Rovers apart from my old work Place, from 1994 when I purchased my first Discovery 2 from them, during all the years since I have had no cause to raise any issues or complaints

DRW

That has to be one of the longest and informative threads I've ever seen on the forum.
Impressive content by any means.
I suppose armed with that you are in a good place to make a decision, just a shame the same problem came up from a trusted dealership.

But all car dealers are only as good as their personnel, sadly you had a crap sales team, and a crap workshop, very unlucky!

A Chain is only as strong as its weakest link sad but true.

I wonder if paragon have engine cleaning facilities or not. Cars returned to them have to be in a condition suitable for inspection. If the oil was there when they had it, then both paragon and the main dealer will have lifted the bonnet. Perhaps they ignored it because of no leak.

I don't know, but you do not send an approved used vehicle out in that state....... As the pics show there is defiantly a leak of oil, I think if anyone had lifted the bonnet the issues highlighted would have been rectified ???

DRW

I sometimes wonder who picks up the bill for some of the faults. If the main dealer spots something wrong then they should be able to claim under the warranty themselves, before sold. They can if the owner takes it back. I can't believe they didn't give it a clean to get rid of the oil. Perhaps they left it to see if there was a further leak. At least you know there was a leak so could keep a look out for it continuing to leak, with fresh oil sprayed. One of them things we'll never know the reasoning for.

I have seen the 165 check point list filled out for used lr's. It gets signed oft by one person doing it. Also someone from sales i think, signs it off, to accept it as fit for presentation and sale. I can't see the pic's of the engine bay (?) but one would hope they would spot it when looking over it for "ready to sell"

Yes I agree, if they had bothered to lift the bonnet, they would have sorted the oil leak, fitted a new alternator all at no cost to the dealer, it would have been covered by warranty, the only part of the checklist they could tick was giving me an experience voucher , that explains why they did not carry out the inspection, they couldn't find a pen Lol.
If you want to look at the pics, they are under another thread, Newby Owner.
Maybe after you have looked at them you may agree with my version of 165 point check ???

DRW

Can't find the engine pic's

Hippo said:

Can't find the engine pic's

Click to expand...

me neither. Clearly a perfect engine bay, no issues clearly PEBKAC ?