New starter motor?

Griffdowg · Dec 8, 2006

ok folks,

while ive been away. my 90 decided to not start before i was due to head out on a night greenlane trip! the lighhts would come on (batt, oil, choke) but when i cranked it over nothing happened. i tried jumping it, thinking it was my batt. but nothing. so i went about hitting the starter to try and kick start it. that didnt work so i pulled a few leads out to clean them (before taking the neg off the batt

) and nearly blew myself up. now the electric dont work and when i try to remove the neg it fizzes and sparks (looks v. dangerous to me) so anyway, i was so angry i just left it and am going to go about it tomorrow. i was just wondering if this sounded like my starter motor has packed in. i found another website (landrover FAQ?) and that gave me a little comfort cos it said it prob was that. i was just wondering what to check under the bonnet tomorrow, i dont want to waste time.

are the fuses related to the engine start system in the fuse box or elsewhere? will a worn engine earth strap cause a problem? and will a 200 and 300tdi starter work with my 2.5 n/a? ive bought LRO this month and their on about starters

so im going to use this tomorrow.

sorry for the long mail. i only have 2 weekends to sort this out and then i have to drive back to Wales for xmas!

cheers

Gareth

ormus · Dec 8, 2006

the battery/chassis/engine earth lead must be spot on. any bad earth will cause untold problems.
next get the battery checked out properly inc the alternator charging system.
starter motor is the next item to check.
dont know if the later starter will fit for sure 100%, but i feel it should be ok.

steve52 · Dec 8, 2006

hi - im no land rover expert but basics electrics - if you have sparks and hissing when you try to disconnect the neg battery terminal you must have a healthy current going somewhere. was this with your ignition switch on? there should be no current flow hence no spark with lights and ignition off (maybe a few miliamps if you have a clock or hi fi with aux circuits).
If it was with yout ignition switch on, i would suspct a faulty starter solenoid
steve

slob · Dec 8, 2006

ad just like to add, are you 100% sure the battery is on the right way round.. if it not that would also give yer hissin and sparking. maybe some low life swapped it when you was away...anyway just a thought before you go chucking money at starters and ****.

Griffdowg · Dec 8, 2006

yer the batt is on the right way, i know that fur sure. had the batt checked a while back and i know thats ok. while i was looking at my starter i noticed what i presume to be the engine earth and it looked twisted and frayed. ive had trouble starting my landy since i had it. ive ruled out batt, glow plugs, alt. and after the no start on wed night i feel its the starter.

lets just hope i havent blown loads of the electrics and that its only a fuse somewhere.

steve, the sparks and **** fly with the ignition off!

trouble?

G

slob · Dec 8, 2006

well if your sure about you've said then it has to be a short somewhere. change yer earth lead first . then if it still do it disconect the starter and then work yer way back to the battery until it stops..checking the pos fer chaffing on the way.

Griffdowg · Dec 9, 2006

ok, i got my elec. back

is there a reset switch somewhere in the engine elec. system? when i pull the earth off and re-attach it my elec come back... when i try to start it i turn the ignition and the elec has gone again!

by the way, i was being a spaz in the dark the other night and wasnt hitting the starter motor at all... it was infact the alternator that i hit and pulled the leads out of

oww the joys of being a novice mechanic

so is there a trip switch involved? i think i need to track down a short. but how would this have come about? i only pulled the leads out of the alt and then back in again. nothing major.

sorry to bother you all with this, gives you something to think about as the forum is so quiet

G

slob · Dec 9, 2006

offs! be glad wiff the knowledge that if any of us had been there we'd have said "HIT IT! will you! give it a good hard belt"' not knowing that you was beating the **** out yer alternator.
and have you tried what i said?

Griffdowg · Dec 9, 2006

not yet, im about to nip out to get an earth strap as mine looks fooked. dont know if this will solve it though. but hey, what do i know i hit alternators with big ammers for no apparent reason!

im not working very fast today as im a little minging after last night. by the time the strap gets fitted it will prob be dark and i will be out there again tomorrow... again poss minging after tonight

G

ormus · Dec 9, 2006

good job u didnt start the injun with no alt connected. you would have blown the diodes.

Griffdowg · Dec 9, 2006

really? opps! i clearly DO NOT KNOW what im doing. lol. going to fit engine earth strap now...

Griffdowg · Dec 9, 2006

earth strap fitted. still the same. clubbed the "actual" starter motor. nothing.

everytime i turn the ignition something shorts and i have to remove, then refit the neg batt lead.

ive attached a pic of my alt. there are 3 connectors with only 2 wires, can someone tell me if they look right? ive lookedin the haynes manual, but it is useless. they are the only things ive removed, i may have put them in wrong when it sparked loads (which made me jump).

ive also put a pic of my old engine earth... knackered or what?
cheers,
G

slob · Dec 9, 2006

you should get yerself a proper plug fer it and not them crap crimp on bollocks. the two big terminals are a common terminal, usually but not always.
take yer starter lead orf and try to turn key without it. oh and did you ensure you had a good contact area fer yer earth?

ormus · Dec 9, 2006

sounds like it might be a relay giving the problem. as you reconnect the battery it seems to reset itself?

Adz · Dec 10, 2006

Crimps = bad idea for a start as slob says.

Also - what's this that I've ringed in your pic?

Is it a whacking great split in your insulation? If it is, that can't be helping much either.

Cheers,

GRUNT · Dec 10, 2006

Looking at all the cak on the back of the alternator I'd be taking it off and cleaning it, strip the cables back to decent wire and fit a new plug. While it's off take to an autoelectricians and have it checked

Griffdowg · Dec 10, 2006

thats not a bad idea grunt. my engine bay is stinking. whats the best way of cleaning it up? should i go over everything with an oily rag?

yes ormus, it seems to reset its self. when i try to start it. something trips and my elec. dont work. nothing, no lights, radio, hazards nothing. then i take the neg lead off and put it back on... all my elec. work again! wierd or what. anyway, once i wire my alt back properly i still have the problem of it not starting. i hate the winter, havent got the motivation to go out there in the rain. esp. after drinking all weekend. i think i will take the starter motor out in the week and have a look at that. i will also the alt back to the way it was. will go to shop and ask for some decent plugs (dont know what these look like).

thank you for the advice guys, much appreciated. age and experience do wonders!

G

GRUNT · Dec 11, 2006

Cant remember if it's petrol or diesel but either way I'd use gunk (can't beat the smell) and pressure wash it, take great care round the electric bits don't go at them hammer and tongs.

Griffdowg · Dec 12, 2006

ok, ive got everything back to where it was before the elec problems, i wacked the starter and now my landy turns over! yay, i hear you say... no!

ive drained the batt. trying to start it

is it common for a starter not to spin fast enough to turn the engine over? would a strip and rebuild solve this or am i likely to need a replacement? i even used a diff batt but the same thing happened. so i know its not a power issue. does this problem sound like a starter motor? do they go wrong often? or do they just die.

can i adjust the choke and how do i? the light comes on now when i try to start it, im sure it didnt usually do this.

cheers,

G

ormus · Dec 12, 2006

starter motors are pretty reliable. they do go of course but rarely.
a bad earth is number one culprit. shagged out battery esp if more than say 3 yrs old.
loose/broken and dirty/corroded wires are more likely suspects.
also relays and solonoids do cause problems.

well worth taking the motor off and clean/inspect it. you can then test it on the bench.

New starter motor?

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