New Clutch For Super Charged/boat pulling 4-Runner Recommendation

I've got a 98 4-Runner 4WD, 3.4L TRD Supercharged motor, which I do some
offroading with, but more importantly I pull a 3700 lb boat/trailer. I'm
needing to replace the clutch and looking for recommendations as the stock
clutch just
doesn't do it with what I'm using it for. I'm interested in an Exedy Safari
Tuff clutch, but havn't been able to find one on the internet. If you know
where to find one, I'd appreciate a link. But also, recommendations on your
own experiences would be appreciated as well on other high performance
clutch kits for something similar. The thing that is probably the toughest
on the clutch is when storing the boat, I have to back it up a driveway with
maybe a 20% grade.

Thanks for your replys,

Ron

Yeah, I already do that, but the clutch is old and slips when I do it, and
now it slips occasionally even
when I'm just driving it without pulling anything, so time to replace it and
wanted to beef it up a bit.

"Shep" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I don't know about the clutch brand but I have to back my boat up a
>similiar dwy, and 4lo is the key, takes all the load off the clutch and
>trans.
> "r" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> I've got a 98 4-Runner 4WD, 3.4L TRD Supercharged motor, which I do some
>> offroading with, but more importantly I pull a 3700 lb boat/trailer. I'm
>> needing to replace the clutch and looking for recommendations as the
>> stock clutch just
>> doesn't do it with what I'm using it for. I'm interested in an Exedy
>> Safari Tuff clutch, but havn't been able to find one on the internet. If
>> you know where to find one, I'd appreciate a link. But also,
>> recommendations on your own experiences would be appreciated as well on
>> other high performance clutch kits for something similar. The thing that
>> is probably the toughest on the clutch is when storing the boat, I have
>> to back it up a driveway with maybe a 20% grade.
>>
>> Thanks for your replys,
>>
>> Ron
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet
> News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
> Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
> =----

On Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:44:51 -0600, "r" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I've got a 98 4-Runner 4WD, 3.4L TRD Supercharged motor, which I do some
>offroading with, but more importantly I pull a 3700 lb boat/trailer. I'm
>needing to replace the clutch and looking for recommendations as the stock
>clutch just
>doesn't do it with what I'm using it for. I'm interested in an Exedy Safari
>Tuff clutch, but havn't been able to find one on the internet. If you know
>where to find one, I'd appreciate a link. But also, recommendations on your
>own experiences would be appreciated as well on other high performance
>clutch kits for something similar. The thing that is probably the toughest
>on the clutch is when storing the boat, I have to back it up a driveway with
>maybe a 20% grade.
>
>Thanks for your replys,
>
>Ron
>


You are seeking the wrong fix here. What you need is deeper axle gears
as it will lighten the load on the clutch and the amount of heat being
generated. Even a HD clutch is going to make the same amount of heat
from fricton while being "played" to back trailer up the driveway. You
are exceeding the abilty of your vehicle as it sits and I would not be
surprized in flywheel is damaged from heat too. Sure a strong clutch
can grip harder but it still needs to slip backing up and that is what
is killing it. A deeper axle ratio would make life a lot easier as
3700 lbs it a lot for a manual tranny 4 runner super charger or not.
Whit deeper gears that clutch will have to carry less torque for same
deliver effoty and beable to fully engage at a lower relative ground
speed too which aids clutch too. If you have oversized tires too you
are really frying the clutch!
-----------------
The SnoMan
www.thesnoman.com

SnoMan wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:44:51 -0600, "r" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>I've got a 98 4-Runner 4WD, 3.4L TRD Supercharged motor, which I do some
>>offroading with, but more importantly I pull a 3700 lb boat/trailer. I'm
>>needing to replace the clutch and looking for recommendations as the stock
>>clutch just
>>doesn't do it with what I'm using it for. I'm interested in an Exedy Safari
>>Tuff clutch, but havn't been able to find one on the internet. If you know
>>where to find one, I'd appreciate a link. But also, recommendations on your
>>own experiences would be appreciated as well on other high performance
>>clutch kits for something similar. The thing that is probably the toughest
>>on the clutch is when storing the boat, I have to back it up a driveway with
>>maybe a 20% grade.
>>
>>Thanks for your replys,
>>
>>Ron
>>
>
>
>
> You are seeking the wrong fix here. What you need is deeper axle gears
> as it will lighten the load on the clutch and the amount of heat being
> generated. Even a HD clutch is going to make the same amount of heat
> from fricton while being "played" to back trailer up the driveway. You
> are exceeding the abilty of your vehicle as it sits and I would not be
> surprized in flywheel is damaged from heat too. Sure a strong clutch
> can grip harder but it still needs to slip backing up and that is what
> is killing it. A deeper axle ratio would make life a lot easier as
> 3700 lbs it a lot for a manual tranny 4 runner super charger or not.
> Whit deeper gears that clutch will have to carry less torque for same
> deliver effoty and beable to fully engage at a lower relative ground
> speed too which aids clutch too. If you have oversized tires too you
> are really frying the clutch!
> -----------------
> The SnoMan
> www.thesnoman.com

Does a 4-runner have a low range in the transfer case? this might be
the ticket for launching it and backing up that steep grade.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Then he needs practice on the clutch and something strong like a
centerforce clutch.....

One trick for hills is to use the emergency brake to hold the vehicle
instead of riding the clutch. That works really well because it frees
up the leg. No matter the clutch, riding it kills it. Low reverse is
barely crawling at an idle on most vehicles....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Shep wrote:
>
> Guys read the posts, yes he has/uses 4w lo.
> "Nate Nagel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > SnoMan wrote:
> >> On Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:44:51 -0600, "r" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>I've got a 98 4-Runner 4WD, 3.4L TRD Supercharged motor, which I do some
> >>>offroading with, but more importantly I pull a 3700 lb boat/trailer. I'm
> >>>needing to replace the clutch and looking for recommendations as the
> >>>stock clutch just
> >>>doesn't do it with what I'm using it for. I'm interested in an Exedy
> >>>Safari Tuff clutch, but havn't been able to find one on the internet. If
> >>>you know where to find one, I'd appreciate a link. But also,
> >>>recommendations on your own experiences would be appreciated as well on
> >>>other high performance clutch kits for something similar. The thing that
> >>>is probably the toughest on the clutch is when storing the boat, I have
> >>>to back it up a driveway with maybe a 20% grade.
> >>>
> >>>Thanks for your replys,
> >>>
> >>>Ron
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> You are seeking the wrong fix here. What you need is deeper axle gears
> >> as it will lighten the load on the clutch and the amount of heat being
> >> generated. Even a HD clutch is going to make the same amount of heat
> >> from fricton while being "played" to back trailer up the driveway. You
> >> are exceeding the abilty of your vehicle as it sits and I would not be
> >> surprized in flywheel is damaged from heat too. Sure a strong clutch
> >> can grip harder but it still needs to slip backing up and that is what
> >> is killing it. A deeper axle ratio would make life a lot easier as
> >> 3700 lbs it a lot for a manual tranny 4 runner super charger or not.
> >> Whit deeper gears that clutch will have to carry less torque for same
> >> deliver effoty and beable to fully engage at a lower relative ground
> >> speed too which aids clutch too. If you have oversized tires too you
> >> are really frying the clutch! -----------------
> >> The SnoMan www.thesnoman.com
> >
> > Does a 4-runner have a low range in the transfer case? this might be the
> > ticket for launching it and backing up that steep grade.
> >
> > nate
> >
> > --
> > replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
> > http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 19:44:16 -0400, Mike Romain <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Then he needs practice on the clutch and something strong like a
>centerforce clutch.....
>
>One trick for hills is to use the emergency brake to hold the vehicle
>instead of riding the clutch. That works really well because it frees
>up the leg. No matter the clutch, riding it kills it. Low reverse is
>barely crawling at an idle on most vehicles....


Not sure what vehicles you are talking about except maybe a old truck
with a granny reverse which a 4 runner does not have else he would not
be having clutch issues.
-----------------
The SnoMan
www.thesnoman.com

SnoMan wrote:
>
> On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 19:44:16 -0400, Mike Romain <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Then he needs practice on the clutch and something strong like a
> >centerforce clutch.....
> >
> >One trick for hills is to use the emergency brake to hold the vehicle
> >instead of riding the clutch. That works really well because it frees
> >up the leg. No matter the clutch, riding it kills it. Low reverse is
> >barely crawling at an idle on most vehicles....
>
> Not sure what vehicles you are talking about except maybe a old truck
> with a granny reverse which a 4 runner does not have else he would not
> be having clutch issues.
> -----------------
> The SnoMan
> www.thesnoman.com

He stated he had a 4 high and a 4 low range. I have 3.31 gears with 33"
tires and a Dana 300 t-case and my low reverse is a 'very' slow walking
speed. Same for low 1st. My Cherokee is the same in low reverse.

If he only has a 4 high range, well.....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 19:44:16 -0400, Mike Romain <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Then he needs practice on the clutch and something strong like a
> >centerforce clutch.....
> >
> >One trick for hills is to use the emergency brake to hold the vehicle
> >instead of riding the clutch. That works really well because it frees
> >up the leg. No matter the clutch, riding it kills it. Low reverse is
> >barely crawling at an idle on most vehicles....
>
>
> Not sure what vehicles you are talking about except maybe a old truck
> with a granny reverse which a 4 runner does not have else he would not
> be having clutch issues.
> -----------------
> The SnoMan
> www.thesnoman.com
>


Thanks for the comments. The original clutch has 100k on it, I want to
replace it, and seeking experiences/suggestions with something other
than a stock OEM replacement which is all I'm really asking here. The
flywheel will be replaced as well instead of having it machined. The
centerforce clutch is an option I've researched a bit, but have heard
exedy is better.

I'll take a look at the deeper axle gears too, but with 4WD low its
definitely crawling - and I do use the emergency brake to hold it when
needed. I live in Colorado, and even going over the 10,000 ft mountain
passes, there is generally no problems at all with power and gearing.
Its quite impressive actually.

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 19:44:16 -0400, Mike Romain <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Then he needs practice on the clutch and something strong like a
> >centerforce clutch.....
> >
> >One trick for hills is to use the emergency brake to hold the vehicle
> >instead of riding the clutch. That works really well because it frees
> >up the leg. No matter the clutch, riding it kills it. Low reverse is
> >barely crawling at an idle on most vehicles....
>
>
> Not sure what vehicles you are talking about except maybe a old truck

> with a granny reverse which a 4 runner does not have else he would not
> be having clutch issues.
> -----------------
> The SnoMan
> www.thesnoman.com
>


Thanks for the comments. The original clutch has 100k on it, I want to
replace it, and seeking experiences/suggestions with something other
than a stock OEM replacement which is all I'm really asking here. The
flywheel will be replaced as well instead of having it machined. The
centerforce clutch is an option I've researched a bit, but have heard
exedy is better. And really wondering about the Safari Tuff clutch made
by Exedy, for applications such as mine.

I'll take a look at the deeper axle gears too, but with 4WD low its
definitely crawling - and I do use the emergency brake to hold it when
needed. I live in Colorado, and even going over the 10,000 ft mountain
passes, there is generally no problems at all with power and gearing.
Its quite impressive actually.

On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 10:48:54 -0400, Mike Romain <[email protected]>
wrote:


>
>He stated he had a 4 high and a 4 low range. I have 3.31 gears with 33"
>tires and a Dana 300 t-case and my low reverse is a 'very' slow walking
>speed. Same for low 1st. My Cherokee is the same in low reverse.
>


Make no mistake, 3.31 is WAY too tall for 33's and anyone that thinks
otherwise is kinding themselves. Relistically with today OD trannies
you need a 4.10 with that combo unless you have a big block or a
diesel. The only way you can get a clutch to survive is to gear it
deep enough for the load that the clutch sees little slipage of torque
loads across it. Unlike a Torque Converter in a automatic which
multiplies torque when "slipping" a clutch does not and all the lost
energy goes to heat in the clutch. If you take 3.31 gear with a 33's
and you use low rang in reverse you have a maxium effective gear ratio
of about 29 to one. When you factor in tire size, 100 ft lb or engine
torque your wheel torque is only about 2000 ftlbs of tractive effort
(assuming no drive line lossses which there are). When you compare
this to a old P/U with a 6, 4.11 gears and a 4sp with a granny gear of
about 7 to 1 in reverse, you get the same effective ratio before you
even use low range. In low range on that truck, 100 ft lbs of engine
torque would yeild 5000 lbs of tractive effort. Below is a simple
chart on the effect of tire size on pulling power. Low rang should
never be consider a substitute for improper gearing for tires size and
load. They were never designed for that.

http://forum.snoman.com/viewtopic.php?t=53
-----------------
The SnoMan
www.thesnoman.com

rr wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
> > On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 19:44:16 -0400, Mike Romain <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Then he needs practice on the clutch and something strong like a
> > >centerforce clutch.....
> > >
> > >One trick for hills is to use the emergency brake to hold the vehicle
> > >instead of riding the clutch. That works really well because it frees
> > >up the leg. No matter the clutch, riding it kills it. Low reverse is
> > >barely crawling at an idle on most vehicles....
> >
> >
> > Not sure what vehicles you are talking about except maybe a old truck
>
> > with a granny reverse which a 4 runner does not have else he would not
> > be having clutch issues.
> > -----------------
> > The SnoMan
> > www.thesnoman.com
> >
>
>
> Thanks for the comments. The original clutch has 100k on it, I want to
> replace it, and seeking experiences/suggestions with something other
> than a stock OEM replacement which is all I'm really asking here. The
> flywheel will be replaced as well instead of having it machined. The
> centerforce clutch is an option I've researched a bit, but have heard
> exedy is better. And really wondering about the Safari Tuff clutch made
> by Exedy, for applications such as mine.
>
> I'll take a look at the deeper axle gears too, but with 4WD low its
> definitely crawling - and I do use the emergency brake to hold it when
> needed. I live in Colorado, and even going over the 10,000 ft mountain
> passes, there is generally no problems at all with power and gearing.
> Its quite impressive actually.

Yes, 4WD low should give you a low enough gear to pull or push that
load easily up a steep grade without stressing the clutch too much. I
would not bother with lowering the overall gearing any more because you
will be stuck with it at highway speeds.

100k on a clutch is about right in my experience, so I don't know if a
heavy duty clutch will get you much more than added pedal pressure to
deal with. If it was my car I would stick with the OEM clutch.

SnoMan wrote:
>
> On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 10:48:54 -0400, Mike Romain <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >He stated he had a 4 high and a 4 low range. I have 3.31 gears with 33"
> >tires and a Dana 300 t-case and my low reverse is a 'very' slow walking
> >speed. Same for low 1st. My Cherokee is the same in low reverse.
> >
>
> Make no mistake, 3.31 is WAY too tall for 33's and anyone that thinks
> otherwise is kinding themselves. Relistically with today OD trannies
> you need a 4.10 with that combo unless you have a big block or a
> diesel. The only way you can get a clutch to survive is to gear it
> deep enough for the load that the clutch sees little slipage of torque
> loads across it.

I won't disagree too much... My OD or 5th is kinda useless unless I
want to cruise at 80+ mph. It does still have pull at 65, but my gas
mileage sucks if I use it. It lugs the engine too much. If I stay in
4th, the engine turns a nice 2300 rpm at 65 mph and I get a decent 23
mpg out of her. This is with the big 258 straight six, 2 bbl, Accel
SuperCoil with everything manually tuned. (no computer running things)

Off road I normally use low range. 3rd is my normal running gear. It
will climb sand pit walls and not stall out in 3rd. If I get too steep,
it just sits there and chews my 33" muds in while turning 400-500 rpm.
On some radical ATV climbs, I will go down to 2nd low. I very seldom
ever use 1st low.

Here are some shots of the off roading area:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291902217

I ran it hard off road for the first couple years after my 'glass body
build and then needed to pull the engine for some clutch linkage work so
got to inspect the clutch. A buddy was by and asked how hard on
clutches it was, so I said 'I don't know' and just pointed to the pile
of parts and said 'have a look'. A minute later he is laughing away so
I looked.... The printed label was still visible on both sides of the
friction material!

I guess my gears work well for my use....

Lower gears would be nice I guess, but I can think of lots better ways
to blow a grand or more....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 10:40:18 -0400, Mike Romain <[email protected]>
wrote:


>I guess my gears work well for my use....
>
>Lower gears would be nice I guess, but I can think of lots better ways
>to blow a grand or more....


You should check out link below and look at the effect of axle ratio
on traction not to mention driveline wrap up and motor mount strain.
If you think you do well now off road, you will be amazed at how much
better it would do in sand and such with 4.10 or 4.56's.


http://forum.snoman.com/viewtopic.php?t=63
-----------------
The SnoMan
www.thesnoman.com

hey that cool

On 4 Apr 2006 05:31:15 -0700, "John S." <[email protected]> wrote:

>Yes, 4WD low should give you a low enough gear to pull or push that
>load easily up a steep grade without stressing the clutch too much. I
>would not bother with lowering the overall gearing any more because you
>will be stuck with it at highway speeds.
>
>100k on a clutch is about right in my experience, so I don't know if a
>heavy duty clutch will get you much more than added pedal pressure to
>deal with. If it was my car I would stick with the OEM clutch.


4lo should be used sparely for this usage. Also I have gotten over
200K out of clutches if they are treated right so I do not agree that
100K is normal. I once pulled a engine out of a old 4x4 truck many
years ago that had had a very hard life. It had a 4 speed with a true
granny gear and the clutch showed little wear even after 185k of very
hard usage. It would have went another 100K plus easy. Overall drive
ratio for the load being "clutched" and the way it is operated has a
far stronger bearing on clutch life than the odometer does.
-----------------
The SnoMan
www.thesnoman.com