Loss of power and Black Smoke Issue

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flookyk

flookyk

Active Member
Posts
177
Location
CO Durham
Sorry this is a bit of a long one.

My 1998 DSE (No EGR or MAF) has been in a local diesel specialist for the last 6 weeks trying to sort out a problem with a loss of power and black smoke when revved.

Within the first week they had found the turbo wastegate had stuck open and managed to free that but it still had the problems.

Before taking it to them I had looked at the usual suspects of new MAP sensor, pipe to the MAP sensor, replaced the turbo pipes and took the intercooler off to clean it and check for leaks.

After they had fixed the wastgate they changed the throttle potentiometer and Injector Lift Pump then took the turbo off and sent it for testing and it came back saying the wastegate was Ok and there was no play on the bearings, etc.

I went up there on Friday with a turbo boost gauge and connected it, via a T-piece, to the map sensor pipe and could not get it above .3 to .4 bar but if you take the pipe off the intake manifold you can feel a reasonable push of air coming from the intercooler.

I have brought it home and tried some more tests on it.

Wondering if I have a leak on the inlet manifold, etc, I blocked the pipe going into the manifold taking it off the intercooler then connected the pressure gauge and tyre compressor, via a T-piece, to the MAP sensor take off pipe and pressured it to .3-.4 bar (5 to 6psi).

As soon as you switch the tyre compressor off the reading on the gauge drops back down to zero.
I have now taken off the intake manifold and currently cleaning/flushing it to see if there is any leaks on it.
When it is off you can see evidence of some kind of leakage from 2 or 3 of the injectors and no 1 injector has a pool of oil or diesel at its base (may of been from forgetting to put the oil cap back on a few months ago though).

If there is no leak on the manifold itself, would a leak from a manifold gasket or one one ore more injector seals be enough to stop it getting enough air it needs or if one or more injectors are faulty would it be enough to be loosing power and black smoke up hill and on acceleration, etc.

Neither Durham 4x4 or the diesel spcialists had found any sort of fault reading being kicked up.

Any other ideas to look at would be welcome ....... well maybe not the "put a match to it ones" :rolleyes:
 
Black smoke equals unburnt diesel so I would be looking at the injectors as long as the air intake system is free from blocks and and had a clean filter. If no 4 injector is fine and the other five are duff how's it going to show did they take injectors out and test them individually as that is what injection experts are able to do.
 
Last edited:
The air filter is around 9 months old and is a little black but the boost pressure tests have been done both with and without the filter fitted and exactly the same results, to discount the filter being at fault.

They have not had the injectors out at all so, hopefully, that will be the next thing I look at then.

I have not been inpressed at all with the diesel speciallist it has been with for the last 6 weeks, apart from only charging £80 for what they did with the turbo, they said they did not have the equipment to test the turbo boost when fitted on the car and did not look at all at the injectors.
 
If you have had the turbo away and it is ok. Only reason other than delaminated turbo pipes restricting flow is blocked exhaust restricting gas flow through the turbo.
 
flookyk said:
Sorry this is a bit of a long one.

My 1998 DSE (No EGR or MAF) has been in a local diesel specialist for the last 6 weeks trying to sort out a problem with a loss of power and black smoke when revved.

Within the first week they had found the turbo wastegate had stuck open and managed to free that but it still had the problems.

Before taking it to them I had looked at the usual suspects of new MAP sensor, pipe to the MAP sensor, replaced the turbo pipes and took the intercooler off to clean it and check for leaks.

After they had fixed the wastgate they changed the throttle potentiometer and Injector Lift Pump then took the turbo off and sent it for testing and it came back saying the wastegate was Ok and there was no play on the bearings, etc.

I went up there on Friday with a turbo boost gauge and connected it, via a T-piece, to the map sensor pipe and could not get it above .3 to .4 bar but if you take the pipe off the intake manifold you can feel a reasonable push of air coming from the intercooler.

I have brought it home and tried some more tests on it.

Wondering if I have a leak on the inlet manifold, etc, I blocked the pipe going into the manifold taking it off the intercooler then connected the pressure gauge and tyre compressor, via a T-piece, to the MAP sensor take off pipe and pressured it to .3-.4 bar (5 to 6psi).

As soon as you switch the tyre compressor off the reading on the gauge drops back down to zero.
I have now taken off the intake manifold and currently cleaning/flushing it to see if there is any leaks on it.
When it is off you can see evidence of some kind of leakage from 2 or 3 of the injectors and no 1 injector has a pool of oil or diesel at its base (may of been from forgetting to put the oil cap back on a few months ago though).

If there is no leak on the manifold itself, would a leak from a manifold gasket or one one ore more injector seals be enough to stop it getting enough air it needs or if one or more injectors are faulty would it be enough to be loosing power and black smoke up hill and on acceleration, etc.

Neither Durham 4x4 or the diesel spcialists had found any sort of fault reading being kicked up.

Any other ideas to look at would be welcome ....... well maybe not the "put a match to it ones" :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
The leakage at the injectors will most likely be the leak off pipes. It is unlikely to be injector seals.
Black smoke can be overfuelling, I would want to look at live data to see what is going on.
If the inlet manifold is leaking, I would expect to hear it, a bad leak would certainly reduce power but I'n not sure it would cause black smoke as the MAP sensor would limit fuelling.
Does the car have a "Hot Start Fix" ? If so, that can cause problems if it fails.
Does the car have a Power Box fitted? Again failure of a power box can cause problems.
 
Well, ordered a set of five non sensor injectors from Emmotts (used ones) for £80 I changed them over on Sunday then tried to start it but after it being sat up the garage for 6 weeks of them trying to sort it then a week outside my house, waiting for the parts and time to get it done, meant I had to take the battery off and recharge it.

Crossed fingers time tonight after coming home from work and ..... bugger me ... (NO THAT IS NOT AN OFFER :eek: ) it started up .... looked out the back ..... and no black smoke ... took it around the block, the smoke has gone and the the power is back again.

I ordered a set of seals for the injectors which have not arrived yet but when they do I will take these injectors back out and refit them with the new seals.

I am wondering whether it is worth having some one look at the old injectors to see if they are shot or can be cleaned or just scrap them .... any idea as to the cost of getting them cleaned/ checked?
 
flookyk said:
Well, ordered a set of five non sensor injectors from Emmotts (used ones) for £80 I changed them over on Sunday then tried to start it but after it being sat up the garage for 6 weeks of them trying to sort it then a week outside my house, waiting for the parts and time to get it done, meant I had to take the battery off and recharge it.

Crossed fingers time tonight after coming home from work and ..... bugger me ... (NO THAT IS NOT AN OFFER :eek: ) it started up .... looked out the back ..... and no black smoke ... took it around the block, the smoke has gone and the the power is back again.

I ordered a set of seals for the injectors which have not arrived yet but when they do I will take these injectors back out and refit them with the new seals.

I am wondering whether it is worth having some one look at the old injectors to see if they are shot or can be cleaned or just scrap them .... any idea as to the cost of getting them cleaned/ checked?
Click to expand...
Diesel Bob will do them.
 
Why does there always have to be something wrong with the bloody thing? :mad:

Datatek, do you have any contact details for Diesel Bob please?

After it starting last night and not kicking out black smoke anymore I took it to work this morning.
It took quite a few minutes of reversing a few yards and forwards again before the gearbox started giving any sort of drive and it was not back to normal when I got to work (around 15 miiles) but was getting better ..... no smoke BUT

after getting out I noticed an oil leak from the damn thing ... cannot see where it is coming from but it is dripping fron the front diff.

Checked the oil and Auto tranmission fluid level and the oil level does not seem to have gone down but the transmission fluid was at the bottom tip of the dipstick. Also noticed I had forgotten to reconnect the inlet manifold temp sensor so reconnected that.

On the way home the black smoke was back again but the gearbox had sorted itself out and was giving the drive again.

It does not seem satisfied unless something is wrong with it.
 
If the oil is sitting on the front of the diff check oil filter lid oil cooler pipes and gearbox pipes or the diff pinion seal is gone
 
flookyk said:
Why does there always have to be something wrong with the bloody thing? :mad:

Datatek, do you have any contact details for Diesel Bob please?

After it starting last night and not kicking out black smoke anymore I took it to work this morning.
It took quite a few minutes of reversing a few yards and forwards again before the gearbox started giving any sort of drive and it was not back to normal when I got to work (around 15 miiles) but was getting better ..... no smoke BUT

after getting out I noticed an oil leak from the damn thing ... cannot see where it is coming from but it is dripping fron the front diff.

Check the top of the oil filter housing, mine leaked and I had to change the O ring.

Checked the oil and Auto tranmission fluid level and the oil level does not seem to have gone down but the transmission fluid was at the bottom tip of the dipstick.

Sounds like th oil level is low, should be checked with the engine cold and lidling, move through all gears and back to P, check level.

Also noticed I had forgotten to reconnect the inlet manifold temp sensor so reconnected that.
On the way home the black smoke was back again

Duff sensor, needs checking on diagnostics.


but the gearbox had sorted itself out and was giving the drive again.

It does not seem satisfied unless something is wrong with it.
Click to expand...

If the IAT is duff, it may be supplying an over rich mixture.
 
Manifold 'leak' is probably because one of the inlet valves is held open by the camshaft so air will be escaping into cylinder. Not sure if there is any valve timing overlap but if there is it could also be going straight out the exhaust port too.
 
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