Loose wheel !!

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M

mblinko

New Member
Posts
47
Location
Dordogne
Got 5 new General Grabber AT Tyres fitted to my TD5 the day before yesterday by a local big name tyre place in Poole. We drove from Poole to Rouen, 2 hours south of Calais, with a big caravan in tow when a small vibration started. Initially I though it was a change in road surface as I was a first time user of this brand of AT tyre. It got worse and was relative to speed so I presumed a balance weight had come off. After a few more miles it got worse again so I stopped and checked around and on the left rear, found ......

.... 2 studs sheared off
.... 2 of the remaining 3 nuts I could undo by hand

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

OMG, we feel so lucky the wheel didn't come off, I dread to think what would have happened with a caravan in tow.

Thankfully, we had AA breakdown cover and are now in a hotel waiting for the LR dealership here to fix it. The tyre place says it has checked its security video and it seems the fitter did his job. Not seen it myself yet though.
 
Standard get out is recheck after 30 miles, ask for video and i bet wheel not torqued up with torque wrench as per manufacturer spec
 
fanatic said:
Standard get out is recheck after 30 miles, ask for video and i bet wheel not torqued up with torque wrench as per manufacturer spec
Click to expand...

Yes ask for a copy of the video or you should prosecute .

Take photos of the wheel studs etc etc .

Get them to pay for any costs !
 
Glad nothing worse came of this! We were driving through Spain to Santander and a wheel came completely off our trailer! Luckily it was a 4 wheeled trailer but we still had 50 miles of Spain and 40 miles of Tenerife to go through before we could do anything about it...

Hopefully you can take it further?
 
I plan to get the old parts and present them. Got photos already. I have already spoken to them and detected a bit of a wriggle coming on ! TBH they will get off light as the insurance covered all the recovery and hotel costs. All they have to worry about is the dealer costs and their reputation.
 
Under torque = loose nuts

Over torque = stretched studs / loose nuts or, worse, snapped studs.

Before I book tyres, I ask them what they set the torque wrench to. If they say "it's automatic", I hang up.
 
haha, checked the security camera! that's a good one. Ask them to check the mechanics gopro's too.

who would you complain to in a case like this? trading standards.. what about vosa?
 
Last edited:
KeepDigging said:
Under torque = loose nuts

Over torque = stretched studs / loose nuts or, worse, snapped studs.

Before I book tyres, I ask them what they set the torque wrench to. If they say "it's automatic", I hang up.
Click to expand...

Disco wheel nuts are only 95lb/ft torque and Machine Mart do a torque wrench that'll cover that comfortably for under £25.

Still bloody lucky for the OP though! :eek:
 
trax said:
haha, checked the security camera! that's a good one. Ask them to check the mechanics gopro's too.

who would you complain to in a case like this? trading standards.. what about vosa?
Click to expand...

I think trading standards in the first instance
 
They'll just point you to the invoice you signed saying you'll check them after 30 miles

You obviously didn't or it wouldn't have fallen off unless the threads on the nuts are worn out

I'd be checking the others before going anywhere in it
 
wack61 said:
They'll just point you to the invoice you signed saying you'll check them after 30 miles

You obviously didn't or it wouldn't have fallen off unless the threads on the nuts are worn out

I'd be checking the others before going anywhere in it
Click to expand...

+1........ Is a standard in the industry.......... Don't think you got a leg to stand on
 
wack61 said:
They'll just point you to the invoice you signed saying you'll check them after 30 miles

You obviously didn't or it wouldn't have fallen off unless the threads on the nuts are worn out

I'd be checking the others before going anywhere in it
Click to expand...

Can't recall signing anything at a tyre place, ever? :confused:
 
MGBGTV8 said:
Can't recall signing anything at a tyre place, ever? :confused:
Click to expand...


You do at costco, they give you an authority to work on your vehicle form but it is an American company where people sue if the lights are too bright

, even so it'll be on the invoice and they should have told you to check them in 30 miles

I've always been told that whenever I've had tyres fitted
 
Thor1950 said:
+1........ Is a standard in the industry.......... Don't think you got a leg to stand on
Click to expand...

I'll be going back to first principles, I may not capture all the permutations this time of night, but here goes:

1. If they wish to rely on a fact which dilutes, detracts from or adds to my contractual rights then they are obliged to take overt steps to bring it to my attention, this is English contract law which states if they want to rely on a fact which is to my significant detriment then they must adequately draw it to my attention. These are subjective tests.
2. Simply displaying a sign somewhere on site saying I need to do x or y is IMHO not sufficient to discharge that level of responsibility. In fact I did not see it and I signed nothing to the above effect. There are judgements to support this IIRC.
3. When all 5 are torqued up to the required level, then it is an engineering impossibility for 2 to come undone to the extent that they could be undone by hand within 300 miles, they may settle a little and thus need adjusting by 5 or 10 % but not 100%
4. As for the the two that sheared:
A. it is possible that they were torqued properly, or over torqued. As for by who, it could be them but why do 2 and not the others, so they could have been torqued or over torqued by someone else
B. It is possible that they were not torqued at all like the the 2 in 3 above and they came undone with the other two and the vibration was enough to shear two right off.

Not sure, too late, going to collect car tomorrow so will hear what LR France have to say.
 
Last edited:
mblinko said:
I'll be going back to first principles, I may not capture all the permutations this time of night, but here goes:

1. If they wish to rely on a fact which dilutes, detracts from or adds to my contractual rights then they are obliged to take overt steps to bring it to my attention, this is English contract law which states if they want to rely on a fact which is to my significant detriment then they must adequately draw it to my attention. These are subjective tests.
2. Simply displaying a sign somewhere on site saying I need to do x or y is IMHO not sufficient to discharge that level of responsibility. In fact I did not see it and I signed nothing to the above effect. There are judgements to support this IIRC.
3. When all 5 are torqued up to the required level, then it is an engineering impossibility for 2 to come undone to the extent that they could be undone by hand within 300 miles, they may settle a little and thus need adjusting by 5 or 10 % but not 100%
4. As for the the two that sheared:
A. it is possible that they were torqued properly, or over torqued. As for by who, it could be them but why do 2 and not the others, so they could have been torqued or over torqued by someone else
B. It is possible that they were not torqued at all like the the 2 in 3 above and they came undone with the other two and the vibration was enough to shear two right off.

Not sure, too late, going to collect car tomorrow so will hear what LR France have to say.
Click to expand...

when you checked the other 15 lug nuts how were they?
 
mblinko said:
I'll be going back to first principles, I may not capture all the permutations this time of night, but here goes:

1. If they wish to rely on a fact which dilutes, detracts from or adds to my contractual rights then they are obliged to take overt steps to bring it to my attention, this is English contract law which states if they want to rely on a fact which is to my significant detriment then they must adequately draw it to my attention. These are subjective tests.
2. Simply displaying a sign somewhere on site saying I need to do x or y is IMHO not sufficient to discharge that level of responsibility. In fact I did not see it and I signed nothing to the above effect. There are judgements to support this IIRC.
3. When all 5 are torqued up to the required level, then it is an engineering impossibility for 2 to come undone to the extent that they could be undone by hand within 300 miles, they may settle a little and thus need adjusting by 5 or 10 % but not 100%
4. As for the the two that sheared:
A. it is possible that they were torqued properly, or over torqued. As for by who, it could be them but why do 2 and not the others, so they could have been torqued or over torqued by someone else
B. It is possible that they were not torqued at all like the the 2 in 3 above and they came undone with the other two and the vibration was enough to shear two right off.

Not sure, too late, going to collect car tomorrow so will hear what LR France have to say.
Click to expand...

good luck,hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction.;)
 
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