Lightweight 4x4, flip down windshield

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J

Jack Daynes

Guest
I'm in the market for a used 4x4. I'm looking to tow behind
an RV. I know Wranglers and older Land Cruisers have the
flip down windshields. Are there any others I should think
about.

The reason I want the flip down windshield is for nature
photography. That aspect of the vehicle is NOT negotiable.

I'd appreciate opinions,
T.I.A.
--
-- Jack --
=================================
Everything you see is temporary.
=================================
Clean Up Return Address To Reply
=================================
Poway, California (San Diego Co.)
=================================

 

"Jack Daynes" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I'm in the market for a used 4x4. I'm looking to tow behind
> an RV. I know Wranglers and older Land Cruisers have the
> flip down windshields. Are there any others I should think
> about.

Do Samurais have them? I thought so, but I'm not sure.
http://home.off-road.com/~reilly/moab2000_11.jpg

Here's another possibility. It isn't a 4x4, and won't
go the everywhere the Samurai will, but it's fairly versatile:
http://members.rogers.com/volksrus/images/mrocchi3.jpg


 
Hello David,

Thanks for the response. (read on below ... )

=================================
David wrote:
> "Jack Daynes" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:[email protected]...
>
>> I'm in the market for a used 4x4. I'm looking to tow
>> behind an RV. I know Wranglers and older Land Cruisers
>> have the flip down windshields. Are there any others I
>> should think about.
>
>
> Do Samurais have them? I thought so, but I'm not sure.
> http://home.off-road.com/~reilly/moab2000_11.jpg
=================================
I couldn't say. I'll try a search to see. (btw: if the rig
in this pic isn't broken, it must be the mechanical
equivalent to a contortionist ;-)
=================================
> Here's another possibility. It isn't a 4x4, and won't go
> the everywhere the Samurai will, but it's fairly
> versatile:
> http://members.rogers.com/volksrus/images/mrocchi3.jpg
=================================
Hmm ... Interesting idea, but the thing about 4x4 that
appeals to me is the ability to crawl. My experience with
2x4 has been it requires 'balls to the wall' driving to get
through tough sections of the trail.

Be Well,
--
-- Jack --
=================================
Everything you see is temporary.
=================================
Clean Up Return Address To Reply
=================================
Poway, California (San Diego Co.)
=================================

 
Hello David (again!)

Read on below ...

=================================
Jack Daynes wrote:
> Hello David,
>
> Thanks for the response. (read on below ... )
>
> ================================= David wrote:
>> "Jack Daynes" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> message news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> I'm in the market for a used 4x4. I'm looking to tow
>>> behind an RV. I know Wranglers and older Land
>>> Cruisers have the flip down windshields. Are there
>>> any others I should think about.
>>
>>
>> Do Samurais have them? I thought so, but I'm not sure.
>> http://home.off-road.com/~reilly/moab2000_11.jpg
> ================================= I couldn't say. I'll
> try a search to see. (btw: if the rig in this pic isn't
> broken, it must be the mechanical equivalent to a
> contortionist ;-) =================================
>> Here's another possibility. It isn't a 4x4, and won't
>> go the everywhere the Samurai will, but it's fairly
>> versatile:
>> http://members.rogers.com/volksrus/images/mrocchi3.jpg
> ================================= Hmm ... Interesting
> idea, but the thing about 4x4 that appeals to me is the
> ability to crawl. My experience with 2x4 has been it
> requires 'balls to the wall' driving to get through tough
> sections of the trail.
>
> Be Well,

=================================
The Suzuki Samarai's of 1983 & 1984 appear to be the only
models that featured the flip down windshield. I found
pictures of some long wheel base versions that look to have
this feature. Alas, all those pictured were European models.
I'm guessing they weren't sold in the USA.

--
-- Jack --
=================================
Everything you see is temporary.
=================================
Clean Up Return Address To Reply
=================================
Poway, California (San Diego Co.)
=================================

 
Not sure if this would make a difference but according to the manual, the
wrangler with the window down shouldn't be driven over 10 mph. Its a
structural thing.

Larry


"Jack Daynes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm in the market for a used 4x4. I'm looking to tow behind
> an RV. I know Wranglers and older Land Cruisers have the
> flip down windshields. Are there any others I should think
> about.
>
> The reason I want the flip down windshield is for nature
> photography. That aspect of the vehicle is NOT negotiable.
>
> I'd appreciate opinions,
> T.I.A.
> --
> -- Jack --
> =================================
> Everything you see is temporary.
> =================================
> Clean Up Return Address To Reply
> =================================
> Poway, California (San Diego Co.)
> =================================
>


 
> "Jack Daynes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>I'm in the market for a used 4x4. I'm looking to tow behind
>>an RV. I know Wranglers and older Land Cruisers have the
>>flip down windshields. Are there any others I should think
>>about.
>>
>>The reason I want the flip down windshield is for nature
>>photography. That aspect of the vehicle is NOT negotiable.
>>
>>I'd appreciate opinions,
>>T.I.A.
>>--
=================================
Larry Greenwood wrote:
> Not sure if this would make a difference but according to
> the manual, the wrangler with the window down shouldn't
> be driven over 10 mph. Its a structural thing.
>
> Larry
=================================

Thanks Larry,

That shouldn't be an issue for me. Most of the time I'm in
the 'hunt' mode and slow driving is the rule. That's good
information though.

--
-- Jack --
=================================
Everything you see is temporary.
=================================
Clean Up Return Address To Reply
=================================
Poway, California (San Diego Co.)
N 32° 57' W 117° 04'
At 508' Elevation
=================================

 

"Jack Daynes" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> =================================
> The Suzuki Samarai's of 1983 & 1984 appear to be the only
> models that featured the flip down windshield. I found
> pictures of some long wheel base versions that look to have
> this feature. Alas, all those pictured were European models.
> I'm guessing they weren't sold in the USA.

Oh well, guess I struck out on that one. The Thing seems like an ideal
light utility vehicle to tow behind a RV, and has the fold down, but not the
4x4. It always surprised me that they sold it that way, because that
eliminates most of the market for that sort of vehicle. It's pretty similar to
a 2WD vehicle the German army used during WWII. Anyway there
were fewer small softroader choices in the 70s, so I guess VW could
sell those Things.


 
Seriously????

I have the owners manual for mine and don't remember seeing that
anywhere.

It for 'sure' isn't a structural thing. LOL! The Jeeps run with the
doors off and no top and can twist themselves up or 'ramp' as they call
it like that Sami in the other post.

I personally have driven at 60 mph in mine with the top and doors off
and windshield down. It was uncomfortable so I slowed down to 50 and
just let folks pass me. I was bush running and needed to go for a gas
and beer run so just went as is. We were wearing glasses.

My CJ7 is now totally fiberglass except for a steel windshield frame and
that is only steel to hold the lift from a soft top. I have a 'glass
one and it is only good for the hardtop or no top running.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Larry Greenwood wrote:
>
> Not sure if this would make a difference but according to the manual, the
> wrangler with the window down shouldn't be driven over 10 mph. Its a
> structural thing.
>
> Larry
>
> "Jack Daynes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I'm in the market for a used 4x4. I'm looking to tow behind
> > an RV. I know Wranglers and older Land Cruisers have the
> > flip down windshields. Are there any others I should think
> > about.
> >
> > The reason I want the flip down windshield is for nature
> > photography. That aspect of the vehicle is NOT negotiable.
> >
> > I'd appreciate opinions,
> > T.I.A.
> > --
> > -- Jack --
> > =================================
> > Everything you see is temporary.
> > =================================
> > Clean Up Return Address To Reply
> > =================================
> > Poway, California (San Diego Co.)
> > =================================
> >
 
It is on page 89 in my owners manual for a 99
TJ.


"The fold down windshield and removeable side bars on your jeep vehicle are
structural elements that can provide some protection in some accidents. "

"Do not drive your Jeep vehicle on-pavement with the windshield down and the
side bars removed as you lose the protection these structural elements can
provide."

"If required for certain off-pavement uses, the side bars can be removed and
the windshield folded down. However, the protection afforded by these
features is then lost. If you remove the side bars and fold down the
windshield, drive slowly and cautiously. Jeep engineers recommend that the
speed of the vehicle be limited to 10 mph (16 Km/h), with the low range
preferred, if you are driving off-pavement with the windshield folded down."
[end of quote]

Larry

"Mike Romain" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Seriously????
>
> I have the owners manual for mine and don't remember seeing that
> anywhere.
>
> It for 'sure' isn't a structural thing. LOL! The Jeeps run with the
> doors off and no top and can twist themselves up or 'ramp' as they call
> it like that Sami in the other post.
>
> I personally have driven at 60 mph in mine with the top and doors off
> and windshield down. It was uncomfortable so I slowed down to 50 and
> just let folks pass me. I was bush running and needed to go for a gas
> and beer run so just went as is. We were wearing glasses.
>
> My CJ7 is now totally fiberglass except for a steel windshield frame and
> that is only steel to hold the lift from a soft top. I have a 'glass
> one and it is only good for the hardtop or no top running.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> Larry Greenwood wrote:
> >
> > Not sure if this would make a difference but according to the manual,
the
> > wrangler with the window down shouldn't be driven over 10 mph. Its a
> > structural thing.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> > "Jack Daynes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > I'm in the market for a used 4x4. I'm looking to tow behind
> > > an RV. I know Wranglers and older Land Cruisers have the
> > > flip down windshields. Are there any others I should think
> > > about.
> > >
> > > The reason I want the flip down windshield is for nature
> > > photography. That aspect of the vehicle is NOT negotiable.
> > >
> > > I'd appreciate opinions,
> > > T.I.A.
> > > --
> > > -- Jack --
> > > =================================
> > > Everything you see is temporary.
> > > =================================
> > > Clean Up Return Address To Reply
> > > =================================
> > > Poway, California (San Diego Co.)
> > > =================================
> > >
Click to expand...
 
I can see that. The lawyers at work...

I can also see some protection from the sport bars in the event of a
roll over.

I also know that tree branches can be dangerous if you are the passenger
with a 16 year old driving who has a warped sense of humor....

The older Jeeps didn't have the front bars. So I sort of think of them
as a minimal add on. Structurally they are very weak, but will sure
keep a branch off your head.

I have been smucked a few times by branches riding up over the
windshield and flipping down onto my head. That side bar would have
stopped that.

Mike

Larry Greenwood wrote:
>
> It is on page 89 in my owners manual for a 99
> TJ.
>
>
> "The fold down windshield and removeable side bars on your jeep vehicle are
> structural elements that can provide some protection in some accidents. "
>
> "Do not drive your Jeep vehicle on-pavement with the windshield down and the
> side bars removed as you lose the protection these structural elements can
> provide."
>
> "If required for certain off-pavement uses, the side bars can be removed and
> the windshield folded down. However, the protection afforded by these
> features is then lost. If you remove the side bars and fold down the
> windshield, drive slowly and cautiously. Jeep engineers recommend that the
> speed of the vehicle be limited to 10 mph (16 Km/h), with the low range
> preferred, if you are driving off-pavement with the windshield folded down."
> [end of quote]
>
> Larry
>
> "Mike Romain" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Seriously????
> >
> > I have the owners manual for mine and don't remember seeing that
> > anywhere.
> >
> > It for 'sure' isn't a structural thing. LOL! The Jeeps run with the
> > doors off and no top and can twist themselves up or 'ramp' as they call
> > it like that Sami in the other post.
> >
> > I personally have driven at 60 mph in mine with the top and doors off
> > and windshield down. It was uncomfortable so I slowed down to 50 and
> > just let folks pass me. I was bush running and needed to go for a gas
> > and beer run so just went as is. We were wearing glasses.
> >
> > My CJ7 is now totally fiberglass except for a steel windshield frame and
> > that is only steel to hold the lift from a soft top. I have a 'glass
> > one and it is only good for the hardtop or no top running.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > Larry Greenwood wrote:
> > >
> > > Not sure if this would make a difference but according to the manual,
> the
> > > wrangler with the window down shouldn't be driven over 10 mph. Its a
> > > structural thing.
> > >
> > > Larry
> > >
> > > "Jack Daynes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > I'm in the market for a used 4x4. I'm looking to tow behind
> > > > an RV. I know Wranglers and older Land Cruisers have the
> > > > flip down windshields. Are there any others I should think
> > > > about.
> > > >
> > > > The reason I want the flip down windshield is for nature
> > > > photography. That aspect of the vehicle is NOT negotiable.
> > > >
> > > > I'd appreciate opinions,
> > > > T.I.A.
> > > > --
> > > > -- Jack --
> > > > =================================
> > > > Everything you see is temporary.
> > > > =================================
> > > > Clean Up Return Address To Reply
> > > > =================================
> > > > Poway, California (San Diego Co.)
> > > > =================================
> > > >
Click to expand...
 
Jack Daynes <[email protected]> wrote:
: I'm in the market for a used 4x4. I'm looking to tow behind
: an RV. I know Wranglers and older Land Cruisers have the
: flip down windshields. Are there any others I should think
: about.
:
The IH Scout 80/800's had a flip down windshield
(note: I did NOT say Scout II!). Don't consider one before
'64, when they received the marvel of modern times: a
crankdown window in the door! (earlier ones had horizontal
sliding windows. Gag!)

However, lightweight they are NOT. But then, you are
including older 'cruisers in you list, and I would not consider
them "lightweight" either. :)

Downsides - 152 cu. in. I-4 meant that, wiht a howling
tailwind, and a 60 degree slope, you MAY hit 60 mph. On a good
day. Maybe. Removable doors. Removable top. No seat belts.
VACCUM OPERATED WIPERS! IH was not known to use "light" and
"weight" adjacent to each other. Drop frame means you can get
high-centered on some inocculous things. If it has a generator,
install an alternator!

Upsides - Removeable door. Removable top. No seat belts
(you can't get ticketed if the vehicle never had 'em!), no
creature comforts, except for a heater that would bake your
left foot. Simple. IH was not known to use "light" and
"weight" adjacent to each other. Did I mention "simple"?
Fairly inexpensive today. Parts are still available.

Bruce
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I like bad!" Bruce Burden Austin, TX.
- Thuganlitha
The Power and the Prophet
Robert Don Hughes

 
Bruce Burden wrote:
> Jack Daynes <[email protected]> wrote:
> : I'm in the market for a used 4x4. I'm looking to tow behind
> : an RV. I know Wranglers and older Land Cruisers have the
> : flip down windshields. Are there any others I should think
> : about.
> :
> The IH Scout 80/800's had a flip down windshield
> (note: I did NOT say Scout II!). Don't consider one before
> '64, when they received the marvel of modern times: a
> crankdown window in the door! (earlier ones had horizontal
> sliding windows. Gag!)
>
> However, lightweight they are NOT. But then, you are
> including older 'cruisers in you list, and I would not consider
> them "lightweight" either. :)
>
> Downsides - 152 cu. in. I-4 meant that, wiht a howling
> tailwind, and a 60 degree slope, you MAY hit 60 mph. On a good
> day. Maybe. Removable doors. Removable top. No seat belts.
> VACCUM OPERATED WIPERS! IH was not known to use "light" and
> "weight" adjacent to each other. Drop frame means you can get
> high-centered on some inocculous things. If it has a generator,
> install an alternator!
>
> Upsides - Removeable door. Removable top. No seat belts
> (you can't get ticketed if the vehicle never had 'em!), no
> creature comforts, except for a heater that would bake your
> left foot. Simple. IH was not known to use "light" and
> "weight" adjacent to each other. Did I mention "simple"?
> Fairly inexpensive today. Parts are still available.
>
> Bruce
=================================

Hello Bruce (and other friends),

That *IS* an option I hadn't heard before. Of all
the suggestions thus far, the Samurai would seem
to be the lightest of the 4WD's, but the downside
there, is that the flip-down windshield (on US
models) was only delivered in '83 & '84. Someone
mentioned a kit to adapt the Samurai windshield,
and THAT does interest me. Another downside might
be the rap about them being tippy.

The 'Thing' might be the lightest, but alas it
isn't 4WD.

If I give less consideration to the weight, the
Jeep 'Wrangler' style rigs (sorry, I haven't
figured out what initials there are ... CJ, YJ,
??) seem to be a popular choice. The short
wheelbase Land Crunchers could work too. Now the
IH idea might fit with these, but I think there
might be more company in the Toyota and Jeep camps.

Anybody know where I can get weight figures for
any of the above rigs?

Again, T.I.A.
--
-- Jack --
=================================
Everything you see is temporary.
=================================
Clean Up Return Address To Reply
=================================
Poway, California (San Diego Co.)
N 32° 57' W 117° 04'
At 508' Elevation
=================================

 
hello the problem about the SJ being tippy is rubbish, what it is is that
when they came out ppl who bought the sj would drive them like a normal car
so yes if u were going 60mph and turned VERY sharp it might tip over but if
u understand that they CAN NOT BE driven like this then u will be fine. U
can also get wheel spacers etc etc.
some 4x4 sites that might help you

http://www.izook.com/
http://www.off-road.com/toc/
http://www.rocky-road.com/

hope this helps

james

"Jack Daynes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Bruce Burden wrote:
> > Jack Daynes <[email protected]> wrote:
> > : I'm in the market for a used 4x4. I'm looking to tow behind
> > : an RV. I know Wranglers and older Land Cruisers have the
> > : flip down windshields. Are there any others I should think
> > : about.
> > :
> > The IH Scout 80/800's had a flip down windshield
> > (note: I did NOT say Scout II!). Don't consider one before
> > '64, when they received the marvel of modern times: a
> > crankdown window in the door! (earlier ones had horizontal
> > sliding windows. Gag!)
> >
> > However, lightweight they are NOT. But then, you are
> > including older 'cruisers in you list, and I would not consider
> > them "lightweight" either. :)
> >
> > Downsides - 152 cu. in. I-4 meant that, wiht a howling
> > tailwind, and a 60 degree slope, you MAY hit 60 mph. On a good
> > day. Maybe. Removable doors. Removable top. No seat belts.
> > VACCUM OPERATED WIPERS! IH was not known to use "light" and
> > "weight" adjacent to each other. Drop frame means you can get
> > high-centered on some inocculous things. If it has a generator,
> > install an alternator!
> >
> > Upsides - Removeable door. Removable top. No seat belts
> > (you can't get ticketed if the vehicle never had 'em!), no
> > creature comforts, except for a heater that would bake your
> > left foot. Simple. IH was not known to use "light" and
> > "weight" adjacent to each other. Did I mention "simple"?
> > Fairly inexpensive today. Parts are still available.
> >
> > Bruce
> =================================
>
> Hello Bruce (and other friends),
>
> That *IS* an option I hadn't heard before. Of all
> the suggestions thus far, the Samurai would seem
> to be the lightest of the 4WD's, but the downside
> there, is that the flip-down windshield (on US
> models) was only delivered in '83 & '84. Someone
> mentioned a kit to adapt the Samurai windshield,
> and THAT does interest me. Another downside might
> be the rap about them being tippy.
>
> The 'Thing' might be the lightest, but alas it
> isn't 4WD.
>
> If I give less consideration to the weight, the
> Jeep 'Wrangler' style rigs (sorry, I haven't
> figured out what initials there are ... CJ, YJ,
> ??) seem to be a popular choice. The short
> wheelbase Land Crunchers could work too. Now the
> IH idea might fit with these, but I think there
> might be more company in the Toyota and Jeep camps.
>
> Anybody know where I can get weight figures for
> any of the above rigs?
>
> Again, T.I.A.
> --
> -- Jack --
> =================================
> Everything you see is temporary.
> =================================
> Clean Up Return Address To Reply
> =================================
> Poway, California (San Diego Co.)
> N 32° 57' W 117° 04'
> At 508' Elevation
> =================================
>


 
Frank Morris wrote:
> Howdy Jack,
> Not light weight but the windshield folds down. Unimogs!¡
>
> Frank X. Morris
> http://community.webtv.net/Sulkhalil/SalukiCornerChime
>

Ummm Frank,

You may have had a different link in mind. Nothing
but hound on that page ;-)

--
-- Jack --
=================================
Everything you see is temporary.
=================================
Clean Up Return Address To Reply
=================================
Poway, California (San Diego Co.)
N 32° 57' W 117° 04'
At 508' Elevation
=================================

 
Hello Bruce,

I tried your links, but ...

=================================
Bruce Burden wrote:
> Jack Daynes <[email protected]> wrote:
> :
> : Anybody know where I can get weight figures for
> : any of the above rigs?
> :
> Try:
>
> www.lcool.org/ (Land Cruisers Owners)
=================================
No FJ40's seem to be featured here. I guess if I
joined their forum someone might know and tell me.
=================================
> www.off-road.com/~jweed/ (IH & Scout Home Page)
=================================
Maybe I'm just lazy or slow, but I couldn't find
info on weights here and the IH category seems to
be about Scouts.
=================================
> www.bumperbooks.com/id115.htm (Jeep Owners manuals)
=================================
Good place to locate a manual to buy, but not to
read. Seems mostly linked to eBay.
=================================
>
> Bruce
=================================
My research from here out will be limited to the
Samurai. I committed to one this afternoon. I'll
go to the bank for cash tomorrow and consummate
the deal.

--
-- Jack --
=================================
Everything you see is temporary.
=================================
Clean Up Return Address To Reply
=================================
Poway, California (San Diego Co.)
N 32° 57' W 117° 04'
At 508' Elevation
=================================

 
"Jack Daynes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm in the market for a used 4x4. I'm looking to tow behind
> an RV. I know Wranglers and older Land Cruisers have the
> flip down windshields. Are there any others I should think
> about.
>
> The reason I want the flip down windshield is for nature
> photography. That aspect of the vehicle is NOT negotiable.
>
> I'd appreciate opinions,
>

It's too bad that it's 2004. 30 years ago you could have found your
"wish" in the local paper's ads. Almost all the old small 4x4s
had flipdown windshieldsback then ; even the "original Ford Bronco"
could be optioned that way.

Back then; I built/owned a Jeep M38A1 (military version of the CJ5)
..


 
R. Asby Dragon wrote:

> "Jack Daynes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>I'm in the market for a used 4x4. I'm looking to tow behind
>>an RV. I know Wranglers and older Land Cruisers have the
>>flip down windshields. Are there any others I should think
>>about.
>>
>>The reason I want the flip down windshield is for nature
>>photography. That aspect of the vehicle is NOT negotiable.
>>
>>I'd appreciate opinions,
>>
>
>
> It's too bad that it's 2004. 30 years ago you could have found your
> "wish" in the local paper's ads. Almost all the old small 4x4s
> had flipdown windshieldsback then ; even the "original Ford Bronco"
> could be optioned that way.
>
> Back then; I built/owned a Jeep M38A1 (military version of the CJ5)
> .
>
>
=================================
Well, the '88.5 Samurai that I bought, has
undergone quite a metamorphosis since I got it. I
hooked up to Petroworks <http://petroworks.com/>
(just up the road a piece in Fallbrook, CA). They
did the 'Spring over axle lift' for me, did the
GRS-II transfer case, and put on 31" x 10" tires.
Later, I added full armor (skid plate, pumpkin
covers, and Rock Slider bars under the doors). I
also had a front bumper made out to 1.5" tubing. I
have a few more tweaks in mind, but it's shaping
up to a rig-to-my-suiting.

--
-- Jack --
=================================
Everything you see is temporary.
=================================
Clean Up Return Address To Reply
=================================
Poway, California (San Diego Co.)
N 32° 57' W 117° 04'
At 508' Elevation
=================================

 
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