KV6 and cooling problem and gas installation?

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orionis_pm

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41
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Hounslow
I'm studying (for a while now) KV6 and so called cooling problems. I have a TD4 '03 and I'm thinking of changing on 03-04 V6 soon or later. The reason behind this step is that TD4 is lacking this edge. Diesel is economical, true, but is lacking that "thing". I think everyone knows what I'm talking about. Ok, get to the point: KV6 is good start if you want to fit gas installation. Yes, I know, everyone will start shouting different things about gas and etc, but I did research and from tree different car (Honda CR-V, Nissan X-Trail and Freelander V6) only the last one is the most capable to handle gas installation as it had hardened valves sockets for example. The other two has soft engine. Gas has higher burning temperature, so with KV6 cooling problems on the way, installation can be tricky.
Searching on the net, I've found few problems with it and they are not that difficult to rectify (I may be wrong), but can we move that plastic termostat housing away from engine, so vibrations will not brake housing as is on KV1.8? Another problem is what all performance boys will remember about hot spots, apart of mechanical pump, can we fit another electrical pump inline with old one with delay for 2-3 min? Apart of this, what if you can cut out bonet on the top of the engine and fit hood like eg. vitara V6?? Any ideas?
 
Don't even think about it.
They blow HGs fer a pastime on petrol, let alone LPG.
Has to be the stoopidest idea I've ever heard of.
And yes, I did have one and the HG went twice - the second time on a nearly new engine.
 
Did you ask yourself why? HG popping out 9 out of 10 because of problems with cooling am I right? Beside did you read that part about changing cooling system alone?
 
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The guy is clearly an expert - encourage him.

There could be some interesting posts out of this.

CharlesY
 
why? why? il ask again...why?...ive bought and sold a fair few freelanders...and il let you do the maths yourself on the costs....the diesel engined ones sell at a premium...then followed by the 1.8s then V6s......now work out the cost of petrol as opposed to diesel...do your yearly average miles...then put the cost of an lpg conversion onto a car thats depreciating daily(the v6 is the fastest at this too!)...and the residual is? nuthin! so by all means buy the v6...its the best freelander anyway...but just enjoy the fact you paid peanuts for it,its got all the toys as standard and the £££££ you saved not buying the TD4 buys you alot of petrol,but to save the price of an lpg conversion? youd have to drive around the world mate
 
You can save MOUNTAINS of cash because once the HG goes it doesn't use any fuel at all because it doesn't go.

It's a built-in economy feature to cut down on global warming.

I learned early on when I joined this forum that

1. the advice given was based on real experience
2. the people giving the advice are helping me by sharing their experience (just ONE little help probably saved me a grand for example)
but
3. when they give advice they do NOT want to enter into any argument with an enquirer who does not and WILL not hear what they are saying! What a waste of good beer time that is.

Free good advice is well worth taking I reckon.

CharlesY
 
Everyone is crying about how the HGF is so common on 1.8 and KV6 2.5 (not so many),but there must be a reason (not one i presume) of all of that. 1.8 had crappy gasket from beginning, but that was changed on steel multi layered one plus there was on nylon pins if i remember exchanged to steel ones.
There was an issue about thermostat housing and that was sorted out by moving in away from engine (which is common sense i think) and exchange it on in line type. Right? Now, instead of making a fuss how you blow up 2 engines, maybe you should think how to re organise whole cooling system if necessary. Be a useful, take RAVE and start to analysing the way it's work.
"When the temperature of the coolant bypassing the thermostat is below 82 °C (180 °F), the thermostat remains closed and prevents coolant from circulating through the radiator. When the temperature of the bypassing coolant reaches 82 °C (180 °F), the thermostat begins to open, allowing 'cold' coolant from the radiator bottom hose into the pump inlet and hot coolant from the cylinder block to flow to the radiator through the top hose. The thermostat then regulates the flow through the radiator to maintain the engine at the optimum temperature. Maximum opening of the thermostat, and therefore maximum flow through the radiator, occurs if the coolant temperature reaches 102 °C (216 °F).
On NAS vehicles, operation of the thermostat is monitored by the Engine Control Module (ECM) using an input from the thermostat monitoring sensor in the bottom hose."
That is what RAVE is saying. Maybe I'm in the wrong, but North American Specification are little bit more advanced? Gasket will not blow itself because they want to, but loose a bit of a coolant or have a faulty thermostat then you are done. And guess where will air lock mostly occur?
 
orionis_pm said:
I'm studying (for a while now) KV6 and so called cooling problems. I have a TD4 '03 and I'm thinking of changing on 03-04 V6 soon or later. The reason behind this step is that TD4 is lacking this edge. Diesel is economical, true, but is lacking that "thing". I think everyone knows what I'm talking about. Ok, get to the point: KV6 is good start if you want to fit gas installation. Yes, I know, everyone will start shouting different things about gas and etc, but I did research and from tree different car (Honda CR-V, Nissan X-Trail and Freelander V6) only the last one is the most capable to handle gas installation as it had hardened valves sockets for example. The other two has soft engine. Gas has higher burning temperature, so with KV6 cooling problems on the way, installation can be tricky.
Searching on the net, I've found few problems with it and they are not that difficult to rectify (I may be wrong), but can we move that plastic termostat housing away from engine, so vibrations will not brake housing as is on KV1.8? Another problem is what all performance boys will remember about hot spots, apart of mechanical pump, can we fit another electrical pump inline with old one with delay for 2-3 min? Apart of this, what if you can cut out bonet on the top of the engine and fit hood like eg. vitara V6?? Any ideas?
Click to expand...

Get yourself an EGR blanking kit and then a Roverrron gizmo - that will give you the oomph you require.

Dont fit LPG to a KV6 (although dopeydawg has) coz the KV6 suffers from poor design, local cavitation and hot spots. LPG, because it runs hotter (or has less cooling than a liquid fuel) will exacerbate this problem.

No you cant move the termostat (sic) - well yes you can, with enough money, if you want to desin a replacement device, and then fit a remote thermostat.
Yes you can fit an EWP - Craig Davies do a nice one with electronic control, so that it will continue to run after the engine is turned off.

Yo best bet is to fit a Rover 220 Turbo lump - esaier, cheaper, more reliable.

deja vu?
 
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orionis_pm said:
Everyone is crying about how the HGF is so common on 1.8 and KV6 2.5 (not so many),but there must be a reason (not one i presume) of all of that. 1.8 had crappy gasket from beginning, but that was changed on steel multi layered one plus there was on nylon pins if i remember exchanged to steel ones.
There was an issue about thermostat housing and that was sorted out by moving in away from engine (which is common sense i think) and exchange it on in line type. Right? Now, instead of making a fuss how you blow up 2 engines, maybe you should think how to re organise whole cooling system if necessary. Be a useful, take RAVE and start to analysing the way it's work.
"When the temperature of the coolant bypassing the thermostat is below 82 °C (180 °F), the thermostat remains closed and prevents coolant from circulating through the radiator. When the temperature of the bypassing coolant reaches 82 °C (180 °F), the thermostat begins to open, allowing 'cold' coolant from the radiator bottom hose into the pump inlet and hot coolant from the cylinder block to flow to the radiator through the top hose. The thermostat then regulates the flow through the radiator to maintain the engine at the optimum temperature. Maximum opening of the thermostat, and therefore maximum flow through the radiator, occurs if the coolant temperature reaches 102 °C (216 °F).
On NAS vehicles, operation of the thermostat is monitored by the Engine Control Module (ECM) using an input from the thermostat monitoring sensor in the bottom hose."
That is what RAVE is saying. Maybe I'm in the wrong, but North American Specification are little bit more advanced? Gasket will not blow itself because they want to, but loose a bit of a coolant or have a faulty thermostat then you are done. And guess where will air lock mostly occur?
Click to expand...


Dont you think the lotus boys would have done this by now?

Oh - they have - they now use Toyota engines i think.:doh:
"The U.S.-spec Elise isn't powered by the weak 118-hp, 1.8-liter, K-series engine sourced from MG Rover. Instead, the car we're about to drive is fitted with a 190-hp, 1.8-liter, four-cylinder Lotus has sourced from Toyota. That's right, Toyota. It'll also use the same six-speed transmission that backs the engine in the Toyota Celica GT-S."
 
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The Mad Hat Man said:
Dont you think the lotus boys would have done this by now?

Oh - they have - they now use Honda engines i think.:doh:
Click to expand...

I tried to tell him ....

One of the problems with LPG is that unlike petrol, it will burn quite well even at ridiculously low percentages in air. Petrol is much more fussy, and will hardly run in an engine unless the mixture is between about 7 and 14 parts of air by mass to one of petrol. In LPG engines the thing might fire up and run at as low as 5% gas to 95% air, but it is going to run H-O-T inside, and heat up the local hot spots smartish.

Petrol is a liquid fuel that enters the cylinders as an ATOMISED spray. It VAPORISES in the cylinders under the hot conditions and because of the heat of compression, and in so doing a lot of HEAT is absorbed.

LPG is already a vapour because it is a gas, and does not bring this cooling effect with it. LEAN FUEL RATIOS BURN HOTTER THAN RICH.

When my SAAB 900 Aero Turbo 16V is on full throttle (and boy does it GO!!!) the fuel system flings in heaps extra petrol specially to cool the piston crowns. It's a bit of a waste, but good fun.

CharlesY
 
The Mad Hat Man:
Hmmm... Lotus boys may not have interest in KV6. As I can see Series I (1997) was based on K1.8 with modified head and trough Series II (up to 2005), so the engine itself is not bad as much. Hot spots are eliminated mostly by running coolant after engine stopped, as well as when is working you have to have good ventilation around. That why V6 bumper has been modified to accommodate better air flow around the engine. Question I have is: did anyone tried to sort this thing out? even most drastic arrangement with the job.
Ok. I know. Even as you say, you can mix petrol with gas, true? that's one idea. Give you some savings? What about cooling effect of HHO? what I want is to sort out cooling problem with V6. Even on petrol.
 
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in that case - i assume yu aint too interested in its off road performance - so change the lump to a Rover 220 Turbo - that will fit as a straight swap, with a gearbox input shaft change. remove the prop, VCU, etc - use the 220turbo gearbox - it has a Thorsen LSD - and yu are away.
 
if yu mean by that - as designed - then i hope yu have deep pockets
if yu mean as it should be - then yu are gonna have to have VERY DEEP pockets.

or dont reinvent the wheel - buy a disco.

or do as others have done - fit the hippoo body on a disco chassis and mechanics.
 
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